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Daylight Saving Time, When? Where?

P: n/a
Several threads have discussed the accuracy of time calculated using
script when Daylight Saving Time (DST) is considered. A page at
http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/ gives much information on DST,
and how it differs in various parts of the world. There is a calculator
for the US and EU systems. However there are other variations in the
world.

In the US, I live in the CST time zone. However this is called CDT when
DST is in effect. Not all of the US has DST. You must remember that the
US is huge, some of our states are larger than most European countries,
and the system of government is a complex mixture of federal, state,
and local levels of law. There is even tribal law for some native
American reservations. Thus it should come as no surprise that usage of
DST is not uniform in the US. DST is not observed in Hawaii, American
Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and most of the Eastern
time zone of the state of Indiana and the state of Arizona (excluding
the Navajo Indian Reservation that spans parts of 3 states and uses
DST).

DST seems to have been first widely used in both Europe and the US at
the time of WWI.

The concept of starting the day early and retiring early perhaps first
was given by Benjamin Franklin when he was an American delegate in
Paris in 1784. He based his argument on savings of fuel for lighting in
an essay "An Echnomical Project" written in Paris. The link given has a
link to the full essay.

The variation in DST in the US is a real problem for nation-wide
services such as satellite TV that download program schedules. This is
solved in the setup by the user or installer selecting if the area uses
DST or not. Likewise, most ISPs in the US allow such a selection so
that their clock is accurate.

Jul 23 '05 #1
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11 Replies


P: n/a
JRS: In article <11**********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>
, dated Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:23:06, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript,
cw******@yahoo.com <cw******@yahoo.com> posted :

DST seems to have been first widely used in both Europe and the US at
the time of WWI.

You need to extend your researches.

Summer Time was first introduced on 1915-09-26; the claim that the
Germans introduced it first is false, it was a British introduction.

You did not say that DST is strictly regulated in the USA; whilst
locations can choose whether or not to have it, if DST is used the
change must be by one hour, and occurs when the clocks (first) reach
02:00 (2 AM) local time on the first Sun of Apr and the last Sun of Oct.

Canada, however, is a more liberal country; odd parts of it adjust their
clocks at similar but different times to the US.

Much of the EU changes, by an hour, at 01:00 UTC on the last Sun of Mar
& Oct; the rest changes, by law, at 01:00 GMT on those dates.

--
John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Jul 23 '05 #2

P: n/a
Zif
cw******@yahoo.com wrote:
[...]
The concept of starting the day early and retiring early perhaps first
was given by Benjamin Franklin when he was an American delegate in
Paris in 1784. He based his argument on savings of fuel for lighting in
an essay "An Echnomical Project" written in Paris. The link given has a
link to the full essay.


While Franklin may have made an important contribution to the debate for
daylight saving, it is quite absurd to say that he was the first to
propose rising and retiring early - that idea has been around for as
long as history. One need look no further than the prayer schedules of
religions that require a dawn (or first light) prayer - ask any
agricultural worker what time 'the day' starts. Franklin admitted as
much in his essay, though he claims credit for discovering that the sun
gives light from the moment it is risen.

Franklin's contribution was to highlight the economic cost of fuel
consumed for lighting that could be replaced by natural light if people
woke earlier in the day and retired earlier at night. He does not
appear to have thought of advancing clocks (which is the real innovation
of daylight saving), rather he suggested the use of cannon and bells to
rouse the populace.

It's not hard to see where that idea came from - many religions use
bells or 'calls' to rouse the populace to prayer. Reveille was a long
established army tradition long before Franklin proposed it for all
citizens.

The idea of advancing clocks as a means of waking people earlier in the
day is generally attributed to William Willett (a pom) who started his
campaign in the early 1900's - more than 100 years after Franklin's death.

For interest, Levi Hutchins of Concord, New Hampshire, is credited as
the inventor of the first mechanical alarm clock in 1787. However, the
alarm on his clock could ring only at 4 am - perhaps he'd read
Franklin's essay written 3 years before.

One has to wonder why, if it is so much better to do everything an hour
earlier in the day, we don't just do everything an hour earlier. Or to
put it another way, why are we prepared to wear the economic cost of
'normal' time when if we just got out of bed an hour earlier we'd save
the cost of all that power?

'Discover' a solution to that and you have an invention worth bragging
about.
--
Zif
Jul 23 '05 #3

P: n/a
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
You need to extend your researches.

Summer Time was first introduced on 1915-09-26; the claim that the
Germans introduced it first is false, it was a British introduction.


See e.g. <http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html>,
"Idea of Daylight Saving Time" and "Early British laws and lax
observance".

All the sources I have researched (not only Wikipedia and the above)
tell it was the idea of Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) presented as
a joke letter to the editors of the "Journal of Paris". A British
citizen, the London builder William Willett (lived from 1857 to March 4,
1915), advocated it first seriously (his "Waste of Daylight" published
in 1907, the bill drafted and introduced in Parliament in 1909) but it
was several times *rejected* by the British Parliament. Therefore it
was *introduced* first by the imperial German government on April 30,
1916, and, after that, it was put in operation on the following Sunday,
May 21, 1916.

Just for the sake of correctness, I would like to have proof from
you (say, the authentic image of a ratified document of the British
government) that states otherwise, particularly one that confirms
your claim above.

In the case you cannot provide one, I suggest *you* extend your
researches before making further such claims.
TIA

PointedEars
Jul 23 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" schrieb:
[...]
Therefore it was *introduced* first by the imperial German government
on April 30, 1916, and, after that, it was put in operation on the
following Sunday, May 21, 1916.


Narf. Comes from copy-pasting. Of course May 21, 1916
is not the Sunday that *followed* April 30, 1916 :)
PointedEars
Jul 23 '05 #5

P: n/a
"Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn" schrieb:
[...] Therefore it was *introduced* first by the imperial German
government on April 30, 1916, and, after that, it was put in
operation
in the UK
on [...] Sunday, May 21, 1916.


Sorry for the inconvenience.
PointedEars
Jul 23 '05 #6

P: n/a
"Zif" <zi***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:wV******************@news.optus.net.au...
cw******@yahoo.com wrote:

One has to wonder why, if it is so much better to do everything an
hour earlier in the day, we don't just do everything an hour earlier.
Or to put it another way, why are we prepared to wear the economic
cost of 'normal' time when if we just got out of bed an hour earlier
we'd save the cost of all that power?

'Discover' a solution to that and you have an invention worth bragging
about.


In this age of (relative) plentiful and (relatively) cheap energy in
first world nations, I think the original argument no longer applies to
a large percentage of the population.

The reason I like advancing clocks an hour in the spring is that for the
summer I get more sunlight after work to enjoy the summer. It is
unlikely my employer would allow me to arrive and leave work an hour
early during the summer months, so a more reasonable solution is to
simply make 4:30pm "happen an hour earlier".

As anyone in IT knows, 4 x 15 minute periods of development are not
equal to 1 hour of development time due to "spin up/down time" required
to "get back in the groove" and "clean up afterwards". In the same way,
getting up an hour earlier would not give you an extra hour to do the
things with your children you can do when you have extra sunlight in the
evening because you would be duplicating the time required to get them
ready for the activity.

DST is about quality of life, not quantity of energy.

Just my two cents.

--
Grant Wagner <gw*****@agricoreunited.com>
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
Jul 23 '05 #7

P: n/a
JRS: In article <42***********************@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,
dated Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:43:41, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript,
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.de> posted :
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
You need to extend your researches.

Summer Time was first introduced on 1915-09-26; the claim that the
Germans introduced it first is false, it was a British introduction.
See e.g. <http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html>,
"Idea of Daylight Saving Time" and "Early British laws and lax
observance".

All the sources I have researched (not only Wikipedia and the above)


Then, in choosing where to search, you have lacked endurance, and not
unshackled your intellects, nor looked coolly in all directions. If you
had considered with care the *whole* of my article (omitting the
header), you should have been able both to deduce the essential detail
and where on the Web to look for confirmation; try again with this one.

Just for the sake of correctness, I would like to have proof from
you (say, the authentic image of a ratified document of the British
government) that states otherwise, particularly one that confirms
your claim above.
British *government* ?? Why? The information should be available in
all the better Public Libraries, for those who can work out where to
look (our local Library, which is medium-sized, has it; in Germany, you
may need a city or University library).
In the case you cannot provide one, I suggest *you* extend your
researches before making further such claims.


I accept your statement about the introduction of the clock shift in
Imperial Germany (and soon after in the UK; how about France) in Spring
of 1916; I knew of it already, but had not noted the exact dates. But
Spring of 1916 is about six months later than 1915-09-26, when the clock
shift was first implemented.

--
John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Jul 23 '05 #8

P: n/a
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
[...] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.de> posted :
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
You need to extend your researches.

Summer Time was first introduced on 1915-09-26; the claim that the
Germans introduced it first is false, it was a British
introduction.
See e.g. <http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html>,
"Idea of Daylight Saving Time" and "Early British laws and lax
observance".

All the sources I have researched (not only Wikipedia and the above)


Then, in choosing where to search, you have lacked endurance, and not
unshackled your intellects, nor looked coolly in all directions. If
you had considered with care the *whole* of my article (omitting the
header), you should have been able both to deduce the essential
detail and where on the Web to look for confirmation; try again with
this one.


No, I won't. *You* made the claim, *you* are the one to either prove
it or be quiet on the matter; if you do it not for politeness towards
the discussion partner/opponent, then just obey the forms.

And please stop not to clearly mark omissions in quoted material.
Just for the sake of correctness, I would like to have proof from
you (say, the authentic image of a ratified document of the British
government) that states otherwise, particularly one that confirms
your claim above.


British *government* ?? Why? The information should be available in
all the better Public Libraries, for those who can work out where to
look (our local Library, which is medium-sized, has it; in Germany,
you may need a city or University library).


AFAIK, in English the sequence "say, ..." introduces a list of examples
that would be sufficient.
In the case you cannot provide one, I suggest *you* extend your
researches before making further such claims.


I accept your statement about the introduction of the clock shift in
Imperial Germany (and soon after in the UK; how about France) in

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Spring of 1916; I knew of it already, but had not noted the exact
dates. But Spring of 1916 is about six months later than
1915-09-26, when the clock shift was first implemented.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you really understand what you write?
PointedEars
Jul 23 '05 #9

P: n/a


Dr John Stockton wrote:
You did not say that DST is strictly regulated in the USA; whilst
locations can choose whether or not to have it, if DST is used the
change must be by one hour, and occurs when the clocks (first) reach
02:00 (2 AM) local time on the first Sun of Apr and the last Sun of Oct.
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.


Please read the FAQs(the link given by me). You will find a very
detailed description of how DST has been handled in the US since WWI to
present. In the early 1960's, I lived in a city that used DST while the
county it was in and other cities in the state did not. The current
laws fortunately do not allow this kind of extreme regional option. It
recently has been suggested that the period DST is in effect each year
be extended in the US. Time will tell. Of course nearly anything is
possible in law, reasonable or not, and so it has been for a very long
time. If I remember correctly, Caligula had himself made a god by law.

While the question of who used DST first may be of interest to some, it
is trivial to me. I think the world can exist very well with or without
DST. My purpose of the post was to point out how the usage of DST can
vary quite a bit in a country such as the US, to say nothing of the
whole world. DST is of little use near the equator or at the poles
during the dark season when there is no daylight to save.

Jul 23 '05 #10

P: n/a
JRS: In article <42***********************@newsread2.arcor-online.net>,
dated Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:28:29, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript,
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.de> posted :
Dr John Stockton schrieb:
[...] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <Po*********@web.de> posted :
> Dr John Stockton schrieb:
>> You need to extend your researches.
>>
>> Summer Time was first introduced on 1915-09-26; the claim that the
>> Germans introduced it first is false, it was a British
>> introduction. > All the sources I have researched (not only Wikipedia and the above)


Then, in choosing where to search, you have lacked endurance, and not
unshackled your intellects, nor looked coolly in all directions. If
you had considered with care the *whole* of my article (omitting the
header), you should have been able both to deduce the essential
detail and where on the Web to look for confirmation; try again with
this one.
British *government* ?? Why? The information should be available in
all the better Public Libraries, for those who can work out where to
look (our local Library, which is medium-sized, has it; in Germany,
you may need a city or University library).


AFAIK, in English the sequence "say, ..." introduces a list of examples
that would be sufficient.


An irrelevant or incomprehensible remark.

I accept your statement about the introduction of the clock shift in
Imperial Germany (and soon after in the UK; how about France) in

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Spring of 1916; I knew of it already, but had not noted the exact
dates. But Spring of 1916 is about six months later than
1915-09-26, when the clock shift was first implemented.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you really understand what you write?


I do; you do not. You are, as you have done before, making an
unjustifiable assumption; you just need to read what has gone before
with care, to think about it, and to make the rather easy deduction. It
only requires the deployment of a modicum of true intelligence.

--
John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Jul 23 '05 #11

P: n/a
JRS: In article <11*********************@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>,
dated Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:14:25, seen in news:comp.lang.javascript,
cw******@yahoo.com <cw******@yahoo.com> posted :
Dr John Stockton wrote:
You did not say that DST is strictly regulated in the USA; whilst
locations can choose whether or not to have it, if DST is used the
change must be by one hour, and occurs when the clocks (first) reach
02:00 (2 AM) local time on the first Sun of Apr and the last Sun of Oct.
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Please read the FAQs(the link given by me). You will find a very
detailed description of how DST has been handled in the US since WWI to
present.


I don't need to know any more about that; I have already read that site.
In the early 1960's, I lived in a city that used DST while the
county it was in and other cities in the state did not. The current
laws fortunately do not allow this kind of extreme regional option.
Agreed. In fact, there should be no options, except maybe for HI & AK.

It
recently has been suggested that the period DST is in effect each year
be extended in the US.
The only sensible changes would be to start a week earlier, to change at
each locality at the same Winter Time in Spring & Autumn, and maybe to
change at a fixed UTC across the nation, or across CONUS.

Time will tell. Of course nearly anything is
possible in law, reasonable or not, and so it has been for a very long
time. If I remember correctly, Caligula had himself made a god by law.
DO NOT TELL HILLARY.

While the question of who used DST first may be of interest to some, it
is trivial to me. I think the world can exist very well with or without
DST. My purpose of the post was to point out how the usage of DST can
vary quite a bit in a country such as the US,
It did; it does not. The only present local choice is whether to have
it or not.

DST is of little use near the equator or at the poles
during the dark season when there is no daylight to save.


It would not be reasonable to have Summer Time during the dark season.

--
John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms
PAS EXE etc : <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see 00index.htm
Dates - miscdate.htm moredate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
Jul 23 '05 #12

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