alerts and flashing taskbars

[Phillip Parr]

Hello,

I know there is no way in Javascript to make the task bar flash when your
window is minimised. However, I found out recently that if a javascript
alert is sent to netscape when the window is minimised the task bar will
flash! msie however doesn't do this, it will happily put the alert box up
infront of all your other windows. My question is: Is there any way to tie
this box down to this window so a minimised msie window will flash when the
alert comes?

Thanks. Wishful thinking!

Phil

[Randy Webb]

Phillip Parr wrote:

Hello,

I know there is no way in Javascript to make the task bar flash when your
window is minimised. However, I found out recently that if a javascript
alert is sent to netscape when the window is minimised the task bar will
flash! msie however doesn't do this, it will happily put the alert box up
infront of all your other windows. My question is: Is there any way to tie
this box down to this window so a minimised msie window will flash when the
alert comes?
No.
Thanks. Wishful thinking!

Yes, its wishful thinking. Why do you want to annoy the users with a
flashing taskbar? I minimized the window because I didn't want to work
in that window at the moment.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq

[Phillip Parr]

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's typed
something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of course, I
could just force a focus of the window, which is much more annoying!

Phil

"Randy Webb" <Hi************@aol.com> wrote in message
news:s5********************@comcast.com...

Phillip Parr wrote:

Hello,

I know there is no way in Javascript to make the task bar flash when your
window is minimised. However, I found out recently that if a javascript
alert is sent to netscape when the window is minimised the task bar will
flash! msie however doesn't do this, it will happily put the alert box up
infront of all your other windows. My question is: Is there any way to
tie this box down to this window so a minimised msie window will flash
when the alert comes?

No.

Thanks. Wishful thinking!

Yes, its wishful thinking. Why do you want to annoy the users with a
flashing taskbar? I minimized the window because I didn't want to work in
that window at the moment.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq

[Randy Webb]

Phillip Parr wrote:

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's typed
something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of course, I
could just force a focus of the window, which is much more annoying!

And it would take any user with half an ounce of brains about 1.987234
seconds to close it. But thats up to you.

And if your users don't know how to keep check on a chat room, they sure
as hell won't know how to multi-task or understand what the flashing
icon means.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
Answer:It destroys the order of the conversation
Question: Why?
Answer: Top-Posting.
Question: Whats the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Phillip Parr]

heh, I didn't mean i'd actually do it!

But you're right.
"Randy Webb" <Hi************@aol.com> wrote in message
news:yv********************@comcast.com...

Phillip Parr wrote:

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's
typed something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of
course, I could just force a focus of the window, which is much more
annoying!

And it would take any user with half an ounce of brains about 1.987234
seconds to close it. But thats up to you.

And if your users don't know how to keep check on a chat room, they sure
as hell won't know how to multi-task or understand what the flashing icon
means.

--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq
Answer:It destroys the order of the conversation
Question: Why?
Answer: Top-Posting.
Question: Whats the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[erikd]

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:19:39 -0500, Randy Webb
<Hi************@aol.com> wrote:

Phillip Parr wrote:

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's typed
something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of course, I
could just force a focus of the window, which is much more annoying!

And it would take any user with half an ounce of brains about 1.987234
seconds to close it. But thats up to you.

And if your users don't know how to keep check on a chat room, they sure
as hell won't know how to multi-task or understand what the flashing
icon means.

I'm not sure why you have such a negative opinion about the OP's
method. Is your way the only way? As a contrary example look at Lotus
Sametime. It's a chat application which does exactly what the OP wants
to do. When a message is posted in a Sametime window, the task bar
icon flashes.

This is extremely useful in practice. There's no need to monitor a
slow moving chat for a new response. The Sametime window is in the
background and out of the way. When the icon flashes, you know that
there is new posting. This is a benefit since the user doesn't need to
constantly keep the chat window on top. The application causes the
computer to do the work FOR you. This is actually good usability
design.

On the other hand, I'm curious if you prefer that the phone didn't
ring when you have an incoming call? You should just constantly pick
it up and see if there is a dial tone or a person calling?

--
Erik

[Randy Webb]

er***@nospam.wanted.here wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:19:39 -0500, Randy Webb
<Hi************@aol.com> wrote:

Phillip Parr wrote:

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's typed
something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of course, I
could just force a focus of the window, which is much more annoying!
And it would take any user with half an ounce of brains about 1.987234
seconds to close it. But thats up to you.

And if your users don't know how to keep check on a chat room, they sure
as hell won't know how to multi-task or understand what the flashing
icon means.

I'm not sure why you have such a negative opinion about the OP's
method. Is your way the only way? As a contrary example look at Lotus
Sametime. It's a chat application which does exactly what the OP wants
to do. When a message is posted in a Sametime window, the task bar
icon flashes.

I have a negative attitude from years of being annoyed by website
authors who try the latest gimmick in an effort to get my attention. You
want my attention? Give me content and then keep my attention with that
content.

As for Lotus Sametime, I have never used it. But if I did use it I have
dual monitors and I would put it in one monitor, my other work in
another monitor. Its exactly how I keep up with AOL chats. In fact, an
AOL Chat window is open right now on that monitor over there--------->
This is extremely useful in practice. There's no need to monitor a
slow moving chat for a new response. The Sametime window is in the
background and out of the way. When the icon flashes, you know that
there is new posting. This is a benefit since the user doesn't need to
constantly keep the chat window on top. The application causes the
computer to do the work FOR you. This is actually good usability
design.
Oh? So blinking and flashing icons is good usability? Wow. Don't let the
epileptics know about that, flashing items can cause seizures.
On the other hand, I'm curious if you prefer that the phone didn't
ring when you have an incoming call? You should just constantly pick
it up and see if there is a dial tone or a person calling?

I don't see where the analogy is the same. You are comparing a device
that is used for one mode of communication -voice- to another that is
for at least 3 modes - sound, visual, aural. If anything, one could
argue about a reminder since a computer *is* so multi-task oriented, but
you run into potential problems when trying to give that reminder. But
years of AOL and its "reminders" have bent me way against them.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq

[erikd]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:47:30 -0500, Randy Webb
<Hi************@aol.com> wrote:

I have a negative attitude from years of being annoyed by website
authors who try the latest gimmick in an effort to get my attention. You
want my attention? Give me content and then keep my attention with that
content.
Agreed, I prefer content myself. But I also realize that I am not
everyone and that different folks have preferences different from
mine. I don't necessarily see those differences as a bad thing. You
appear to do so.
As for Lotus Sametime, I have never used it. But if I did use it I have
dual monitors and I would put it in one monitor, my other work in
another monitor. Its exactly how I keep up with AOL chats. In fact, an
AOL Chat window is open right now on that monitor over there--------->
Again, everyone is not you. Dual tubes are nice, but not everyone has
the desk space, desire or money for a second monitor. And some folks
use a laptop where screen space is limited. The icon indicator is a
great benefit to me when I use a laptop. In the office where I have a
21" monitor, it's less useful, but still handy.
Oh? So blinking and flashing icons is good usability? Wow. Don't let the
epileptics know about that, flashing items can cause seizures.

It's all in the implementation. I can't imagine that you're suggesting
that every blink is a bad thing. I'm guessing that most people see a
flashing cursor when typing. It's not a Hobson's choice.

If you use MS Excel, you can see what the OP was trying to accomplish.
When the Excel window is covered up and sends a request for user
interaction, it blinks the task bar icon. I think it's effective and I
encourage the OP to pursue his solution. I don't know the answer or
I'd post it here.

--
Erik

[Phillip Parr]

While you raise an interesting point about content, a chat page is content
which is created by users of the site. While I would never intentionally
annoy anyone, as I myself have a policy of simplicity, easy usability and
non-annoyance (no pop-ups, adverts, etc unless drastically required) it
would be nice to be notified. But still, I guess if you're in a chat room
you'll look from time to time. I remember a time when people became irate
unless you replied to a question within 5 minutes, now that has dropped to
an annoyance within a matter of seconds.

And you needn't worry about epileptic seizures: It requires at least 10
changes per second of highly contrasting colours to set the average sufferer
off, and windows only blinks the task bar icon once a second and then only
blinks 3 times on most set ups.

Phil

"Randy Webb" <Hi************@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Lq********************@comcast.com...

er***@nospam.wanted.here wrote:

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:19:39 -0500, Randy Webb
<Hi************@aol.com> wrote:

Phillip Parr wrote:

Well, i wanted it for a chat page. It'd be nice to know when someone's
typed something, so you can carry on working while not looking at it. Of
course, I could just force a focus of the window, which is much more
annoying!

And it would take any user with half an ounce of brains about 1.987234
seconds to close it. But thats up to you.

And if your users don't know how to keep check on a chat room, they sure
as hell won't know how to multi-task or understand what the flashing icon
means.

I'm not sure why you have such a negative opinion about the OP's
method. Is your way the only way? As a contrary example look at Lotus
Sametime. It's a chat application which does exactly what the OP wants
to do. When a message is posted in a Sametime window, the task bar
icon flashes.

I have a negative attitude from years of being annoyed by website authors
who try the latest gimmick in an effort to get my attention. You want my
attention? Give me content and then keep my attention with that content.

As for Lotus Sametime, I have never used it. But if I did use it I have
dual monitors and I would put it in one monitor, my other work in another
monitor. Its exactly how I keep up with AOL chats. In fact, an AOL Chat
window is open right now on that monitor over there--------->

This is extremely useful in practice. There's no need to monitor a
slow moving chat for a new response. The Sametime window is in the
background and out of the way. When the icon flashes, you know that
there is new posting. This is a benefit since the user doesn't need to
constantly keep the chat window on top. The application causes the
computer to do the work FOR you. This is actually good usability
design.

Oh? So blinking and flashing icons is good usability? Wow. Don't let the
epileptics know about that, flashing items can cause seizures.

On the other hand, I'm curious if you prefer that the phone didn't
ring when you have an incoming call? You should just constantly pick
it up and see if there is a dial tone or a person calling?

I don't see where the analogy is the same. You are comparing a device that
is used for one mode of communication -voice- to another that is for at
least 3 modes - sound, visual, aural. If anything, one could argue about a
reminder since a computer *is* so multi-task oriented, but you run into
potential problems when trying to give that reminder. But years of AOL and
its "reminders" have bent me way against them.
--
Randy
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq

[Jim Ley]

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:19:53 +0000 (UTC), "Phillip Parr" <[e-mail]>
wrote:

I remember a time when people became irate
unless you replied to a question within 5 minutes, now that has dropped to
an annoyance within a matter of seconds.
That's not my experience of "chat", people are quite happy carrying
out conversations that have say 5 sentances per hour.
And you needn't worry about epileptic seizures: It requires at least 10
changes per second of highly contrasting colours to set the average sufferer
off, and windows only blinks the task bar icon once a second and then only
blinks 3 times on most set ups.

there's certainly no problem with epilepsy certainly, however there is
a problem with those people sensitive to movement, people such as me,
who cannot work with the flashing of the network lights in the windows
taskbar. Animation can be very distracting to many users.

Jim.