Java and PDAs or .Net compact?

[David Moss]

I was given a Compaq pocket PC with windows mobile 2002.

I immediately began looking into how to program it and Java seemed
initially to be a good choice.

To my surprise I found it wasn't as straightforward as Java for the
desktop. Even finding a JRE for the PDA is a nightmare.

The PC came with Jeode, a version of PersonalJava.
PersonalJava is no longer supported by SUN.

We all take the free desktop JRE for J2SE and even J2EE for granted, we
know what we develop for these environments it will run anywhere.

It seems there are many proprietary versions of Java for PDAs out there,
all different from each other. Write once run anywhere is out the
window.

I have also been spoiled by having an IDE such as Netbeans which makes
Java development on the desktop much easier. Being forced to use
proprietary JREs means standard IDEs such as Netbeans are useless.

The situation is so bad that I fired up a copy of Microsoft Visual
Studio 2003 to see what it could offer. To my surprise I found it
offered everything Java doesn't: a standard runtime, .Net compact is
bundled, and their standard IDE is set up to handle a mobile project
right out of the box.

How is it that Java has got it so badly wrong on the mobile platform?
How is it that Microsoft can beat them at their own game, write once run
anywhere on these devices when Java once pioneered mobile computing?

Or have I missed something obvious that other Java developers take for
granted?

If anyone knows of a free JRE that will run on pocket pc 2002 and modern
variants, with ports to other popular PDA operating systems and can be
used inside Netbeans or similar, can you please post the details.

Right now I'm starting down the line of using Visual Studio and .Net
compact. It delivers everything the Java philosophy is supposed to be
about. What can Java do to match?

--
DM
personal opinion only

[jub]

Hello i read your post and this is my own personal opinion

J2ME is still developing and there is not a KVM for every mobile device on
earth, The KVM i have on my palm phone runs only midp 1.0 applications, you
are talking about a Compaq PC running on windows mobile 2002. Of course now
Visual .NET would be the best IDE to program this device . With Visual .NET
you would get to use native coding something not available with J2ME( as
J2ME was designed as a layer over mobile Devices operating system). I do
feel J2ME has more advantage for a Developer as your code can be installed
on a wide range of devices whether running BREW, SYMBIAN or mobile 2002
"David Moss" <q0******@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:MP************************@news.bigpond.com.. .

I was given a Compaq pocket PC with windows mobile 2002.

I immediately began looking into how to program it and Java seemed
initially to be a good choice.

To my surprise I found it wasn't as straightforward as Java for the
desktop. Even finding a JRE for the PDA is a nightmare.

The PC came with Jeode, a version of PersonalJava.
PersonalJava is no longer supported by SUN.

We all take the free desktop JRE for J2SE and even J2EE for granted, we
know what we develop for these environments it will run anywhere.

It seems there are many proprietary versions of Java for PDAs out there,
all different from each other. Write once run anywhere is out the
window.

I have also been spoiled by having an IDE such as Netbeans which makes
Java development on the desktop much easier. Being forced to use
proprietary JREs means standard IDEs such as Netbeans are useless.

The situation is so bad that I fired up a copy of Microsoft Visual
Studio 2003 to see what it could offer. To my surprise I found it
offered everything Java doesn't: a standard runtime, .Net compact is
bundled, and their standard IDE is set up to handle a mobile project
right out of the box.

How is it that Java has got it so badly wrong on the mobile platform?
How is it that Microsoft can beat them at their own game, write once run
anywhere on these devices when Java once pioneered mobile computing?

Or have I missed something obvious that other Java developers take for
granted?

If anyone knows of a free JRE that will run on pocket pc 2002 and modern
variants, with ports to other popular PDA operating systems and can be
used inside Netbeans or similar, can you please post the details.

Right now I'm starting down the line of using Visual Studio and .Net
compact. It delivers everything the Java philosophy is supposed to be
about. What can Java do to match?

--
DM
personal opinion only

[Oliver Wong]

"David Moss" <q0******@mail.connect.usq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:MP************************@news.bigpond.com.. .

I was given a Compaq pocket PC with windows mobile 2002.

I immediately began looking into how to program it and Java seemed
initially to be a good choice.

To my surprise I found it wasn't as straightforward as Java for the
desktop. Even finding a JRE for the PDA is a nightmare.

The PC came with Jeode, a version of PersonalJava.
PersonalJava is no longer supported by SUN.

We all take the free desktop JRE for J2SE and even J2EE for granted, we
know what we develop for these environments it will run anywhere.

It seems there are many proprietary versions of Java for PDAs out there,
all different from each other. Write once run anywhere is out the
window.

I have also been spoiled by having an IDE such as Netbeans which makes
Java development on the desktop much easier. Being forced to use
proprietary JREs means standard IDEs such as Netbeans are useless.

The situation is so bad that I fired up a copy of Microsoft Visual
Studio 2003 to see what it could offer. To my surprise I found it
offered everything Java doesn't: a standard runtime, .Net compact is
bundled, and their standard IDE is set up to handle a mobile project
right out of the box.

How is it that Java has got it so badly wrong on the mobile platform?
How is it that Microsoft can beat them at their own game, write once run
anywhere on these devices when Java once pioneered mobile computing?
Windows Mobile is a niche Microsoft product, so it isn't surprising that
Sun doesn't have a suite of products for it while Microsoft does. This is
like being surprised that Sun does offer a JVM for the XBox.
Or have I missed something obvious that other Java developers take for
granted?

If anyone knows of a free JRE that will run on pocket pc 2002 and modern
variants, with ports to other popular PDA operating systems and can be
used inside Netbeans or similar, can you please post the details.

Right now I'm starting down the line of using Visual Studio and .Net
compact. It delivers everything the Java philosophy is supposed to be
about. What can Java do to match?

Java runs perfectly on Linux and Mac. .NET sort of runs on Linux using
the Mono project, and AFAIK, doesn't run at all on Mac.

- Oliver

[Brian Knoblauch]

David Moss wrote:

I was given a Compaq pocket PC with windows mobile 2002.

I've run into the same problem. It's easier to write Java apps for
cellphones than for Pocket PC. Not good since Pocket PC is where the
corporate world is going (and I need to support).

[David Moss]

In article <FUt9f.67241$S4.42328@edtnps84>, ow***@castortech.com
writes...

Windows Mobile is a niche Microsoft product, so it isn't surprising that
Sun doesn't have a suite of products for it while Microsoft does. This is
like being surprised that Sun does offer a JVM for the XBox.

Looking at the number of HP Ipaqs that come out at Systems Technician
conferences, its a pretty big niche.

SUN took Microsoft for court because it deviated from the Java
philosophy, yet every PDA seems to have a different and mutually
incompatible JRE.

I reckon a new acronym needs to be coined to describe this situation:
JLE, the "Java Like Environment".

--
DM
personal opinion only