Java Applets in IE

[Dave D]

I just read something that spooked me. I'm a newbie working my way through
"SAMS Teach Youself Java 2 in 21 Days." I used to code a bit in Symantec's
Visual Cafe for Java about 3 years ago, but those brain cells are now
gone...

This book seems to imply that applets built with Java 2 (SDK 1.4) won't run
in IE! It says IE only supports Java 1.0 and 1.1. As my primary aim is to
build an applet for sharing from my personal web page, I'm wondering if I
should be using Java 2...

So, what's the scoop?
-- Dave

[Dave Miller]

In article <6A*******************@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net >,
[e-mail] says...

I just read something that spooked me. I'm a newbie working my way through
"SAMS Teach Youself Java 2 in 21 Days." I used to code a bit in Symantec's
Visual Cafe for Java about 3 years ago, but those brain cells are now
gone...

This book seems to imply that applets built with Java 2 (SDK 1.4) won't run
in IE! It says IE only supports Java 1.0 and 1.1. As my primary aim is to
build an applet for sharing from my personal web page, I'm wondering if I
should be using Java 2...

So, what's the scoop?
-- Dave

Windows does not ship with the Java VM. The MS VM with which it ships is
1.2 compliant. To use a 1.4 applet your user will need the Java VM which
ships with Netscape and is available as a free download (from Sun) for
any other use including IE.

[Dave D]

> > Windows does not ship with the Java VM. The MS VM with which it ships is

1.2 compliant. To use a 1.4 applet your user will need the Java VM which
ships with Netscape and is available as a free download (from Sun) for
any other use including IE.

Can you point me to a page with a 1.4 applet on it?

-- Dave

[Dave Miller]

In article <rAfXa.40943$Oz4.12001@rwcrnsc54>, [e-mail] says...

Windows does not ship with the Java VM. The MS VM with which it ships is
1.2 compliant. To use a 1.4 applet your user will need the Java VM which
ships with Netscape and is available as a free download (from Sun) for
any other use including IE.

Can you point me to a page with a 1.4 applet on it?

-- Dave

If the browser can not deploy the applet you will get a blank gray box.
(If you go to the sun site and look at the swing tutorial, I'm sure that
you will fing a 1.4 applet example).

Shipped with the 1.4 SDK is an executable called HtmlConverter.exe. It
will convert <applet>...</applet> html code to a call to check for 1.4
and direct the user to the Sun site for the Java VM if the users VM !=
1.4. You will find the converter in your SDK/bin - it has a GUI
interface and is easy to use.

Regards,

DM

[Neomorph]

On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:20:43 GMT, "Dave D" <[e-mail]> two-finger typed:

> I just read something that spooked me. I'm a newbie working my waythrough > "SAMS Teach Youself Java 2 in 21 Days." I used to code a bit inSymantec's > Visual Cafe for Java about 3 years ago, but those brain cells are now
> gone...
>
> This book seems to imply that applets built with Java 2 (SDK 1.4) won'trun > in IE! It says IE only supports Java 1.0 and 1.1. As my primary aim isto > build an applet for sharing from my personal web page, I'm wonderingifI > should be using Java 2...
>
> So, what's the scoop?
>
>
> -- Dave
Windows does not ship with the Java VM. The MS VM with which it ships is
1.2 compliant. To use a 1.4 applet your user will need the Java VM which
ships with Netscape and is available as a free download (from Sun) for
any other use including IE.

Since the MS JVM does not come with Swing, it is definetly not 1.2
compliant. Also, I created an Applet that mixes two images with Alpha
channels, and that one shows that the Alpha channel does not work the way
it's supposed to in IE 5.0/5.5/6.0: instead of truly mixing the pixel's
color, it uses pixel patterns to choose between using a pixel from the one
image or the other. This was a typical JDK 1.1 'fault'. It was fixed in
Java2/JDK1.2.
http://www.continuum.demon.nl/javadev/

(Ahem, I may have to move the site to a different provider, since it looks
like Demon is capping the access due to 'heavy traffic' on the site - it's
rather slow currently).

Also, Sun prohibited Microsoft from continuing with Java after JDK 1.1,
because Microsoft was botching the official implementation with a
non-compatible native interface and MS specific OS access classes, making
it possible to create Java Applets and Applications that would be platform
dependent. This was against the contract between MS and Sun/Javasoft.

IE 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 manage to run JDK 1.1.x code fine, though.
IE 4.0 has problems when using JAR files for the code library, it only
supports loose class files properly.
IE 3.0 only supports JDK 1.02, just like earlier Netscape 4.x
implementations, which got fixed in Navigator 4.06, and Communicator 4.6
(or was it 4.5 ?).
JDK 1.02 was already supported by Netscape 2.0, by the way.

Since IE 5.x/6 is used in 95% to 98% of the browsing users (depending on
the site that is visited), and Netscape 4.08/4.7x/4.8 is still in use due
to its footprint and familiarity, sticking to JDK 1.1 for Applets is not a
bad idea, especially if your programming is good enough to create your own
components based on JDK 1.1.

At least you have the new event system, and not much has been deprecated
since JDK 1.1 that you may be coming up against.
What will happen if you try to run a 1.4 applet? Will you get prompted to
download the Java VM?
It will throw errors about non-existing classes in the Java Console and
basically only show a grey rectangle.

-- Dave

Cheers.

[Phil]

I think the point is that you need to
stay with 1.1 if you want visitors to
see your stuff. Nobody is going to be
that interested that they are willing
to spend a couple hours to install 1.4
just to see your applet.

"Neomorph" <ne******@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:9e********************************@4ax.com...
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 21:20:43 GMT, "Dave D" <[e-mail]> two-finger typed:

> I just read something that spooked me. I'm a newbie working my waythrough > "SAMS Teach Youself Java 2 in 21 Days." I used to code a bit inSymantec's > Visual Cafe for Java about 3 years ago, but those brain cells are now
> gone...
>
> This book seems to imply that applets built with Java 2 (SDK 1.4) won'trun > in IE! It says IE only supports Java 1.0 and 1.1. As my primary aim isto > build an applet for sharing from my personal web page, I'm wondering ifI > should be using Java 2...
>
> So, what's the scoop?
>
>
> -- Dave
Windows does not ship with the Java VM. The MS VM with which it ships is
1.2 compliant. To use a 1.4 applet your user will need the Java VM which
ships with Netscape and is available as a free download (from Sun) for
any other use including IE.

Since the MS JVM does not come with Swing, it is definetly not 1.2
compliant. Also, I created an Applet that mixes two images with Alpha
channels, and that one shows that the Alpha channel does not work the way
it's supposed to in IE 5.0/5.5/6.0: instead of truly mixing the pixel's
color, it uses pixel patterns to choose between using a pixel from the one
image or the other. This was a typical JDK 1.1 'fault'. It was fixed in
Java2/JDK1.2.
http://www.continuum.demon.nl/javadev/

(Ahem, I may have to move the site to a different provider, since it looks
like Demon is capping the access due to 'heavy traffic' on the site - it's
rather slow currently).

Also, Sun prohibited Microsoft from continuing with Java after JDK 1.1,
because Microsoft was botching the official implementation with a
non-compatible native interface and MS specific OS access classes, making
it possible to create Java Applets and Applications that would be platform
dependent. This was against the contract between MS and Sun/Javasoft.

IE 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 manage to run JDK 1.1.x code fine, though.
IE 4.0 has problems when using JAR files for the code library, it only
supports loose class files properly.
IE 3.0 only supports JDK 1.02, just like earlier Netscape 4.x
implementations, which got fixed in Navigator 4.06, and Communicator 4.6
(or was it 4.5 ?).
JDK 1.02 was already supported by Netscape 2.0, by the way.

Since IE 5.x/6 is used in 95% to 98% of the browsing users (depending on
the site that is visited), and Netscape 4.08/4.7x/4.8 is still in use due
to its footprint and familiarity, sticking to JDK 1.1 for Applets is not a
bad idea, especially if your programming is good enough to create your own
components based on JDK 1.1.

At least you have the new event system, and not much has been deprecated
since JDK 1.1 that you may be coming up against.
What will happen if you try to run a 1.4 applet? Will you get prompted to
download the Java VM?
It will throw errors about non-existing classes in the Java Console and
basically only show a grey rectangle.

-- Dave

Cheers.

[Neomorph]

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:18:37 GMT, "Phil" <ry***@ieee.org> two-finger typed:

I think the point is that you need to
stay with 1.1 if you want visitors to
see your stuff. Nobody is going to be
that interested that they are willing
to spend a couple hours to install 1.4
just to see your applet.

Yep.

Especially since after installing JRE 1.4.2, Java in IE 6.0 doesn't work
(message about installing Java support comes up) until I switched OFF the
Plugin for IE on my Win2000 SP3 System, so the IE 6.0 JVM kicked back in.

Cheers.

[biner]

>

Shipped with the 1.4 SDK is an executable called HtmlConverter.exe. It
will convert <applet>...</applet> html code to a call to check for 1.4
and direct the user to the Sun site for the Java VM if the users VM !=
1.4. You will find the converter in your SDK/bin - it has a GUI
interface and is easy to use.

Regards,

DM

First I want to say that I'm a bit shocked to see that I should have
sticked with JDK 1.1.x for my applets to be enjoyable by everybody.
I'm learning java 2 (jdk 1.4 I think) and the reason I'm doing it is
because I though I would be able to distribute my programs and
applets. Now I realise that everybody has to download J2SE (or
something like that, the names they come up with ...), which is I
dunno how big but too big to ask anybody to go trhough that assle just
to use my little simple applet.

What if I use JDK 1.4 but without swing things and stick with JDK
1.1.x component. Will my applet work with the basic MS Java plugin?

Now, for HtmlConverter. I used it to convert an html file containing
an applet which is passed as a jar file. Well it works with IE under
XP and under Linux with Netscape, redirecting me to sun's obscure (to
me at least) pages to download the latest J2RE. This said, it doesn't
seem to work in my case with either IE or Netscape under OS X and
neither with Netscape under SGI Unix. The page doesn't redirect me
anywhere, I just see a gray box. It's a bit disapointing.

I don't know, maybe I did something wrong. It is usually the case.

Ciao!

[Dave Miller]

In article <b8**************************@posting.google.com >,
bi*************@ouranos.ca says...

Shipped with the 1.4 SDK is an executable called HtmlConverter.exe. It
will convert <applet>...</applet> html code to a call to check for 1.4
and direct the user to the Sun site for the Java VM if the users VM !=
1.4. You will find the converter in your SDK/bin - it has a GUI
interface and is easy to use.

Regards,

DM
First I want to say that I'm a bit shocked to see that I should have
sticked with JDK 1.1.x for my applets to be enjoyable by everybody.
I'm learning java 2 (jdk 1.4 I think) and the reason I'm doing it is
because I though I would be able to distribute my programs and
applets. Now I realise that everybody has to download J2SE (or
something like that, the names they come up with ...), which is I
dunno how big but too big to ask anybody to go trhough that assle just
to use my little simple applet.

What if I use JDK 1.4 but without swing things and stick with JDK
1.1.x component. Will my applet work with the basic MS Java plugin?

As long as you use nothing from 1.2 or newer, the classes will run. To
check whether the class is old enough, either (a) get a copy of the 1.1
API and see if it appears, or (b) look at the bottom of the class
description on a newer API where it usually says "since 1.x".

In general, I have to disagree with those who are trying to talk you
back to 1.1. For broadband users, the JRE download is a relativly
painless 2 minute wait. For dialup users it can get painful (about 25
minutes at 56k), but many are used to long downloads. Looking forward,
both Dell and HP will be distributing the JRE with their new boxes by
the end of the year and other manufacturers are likly to follow. Having
said that, if when you say "little applet" you mean that you do not need
any functionality that was added after 1.1 just stay away from those
classes and your applet will run on the older (MS) VM
Now, for HtmlConverter. I used it to convert an html file containing
an applet which is passed as a jar file. Well it works with IE under
XP and under Linux with Netscape, redirecting me to sun's obscure (to
me at least) pages to download the latest J2RE. This said, it doesn't
seem to work in my case with either IE or Netscape under OS X and
neither with Netscape under SGI Unix. The page doesn't redirect me
anywhere, I just see a gray box. It's a bit disapointing.
You're beyond my scope on this one - I only use Linux for server, Wintel
for desktop. Check the Sun site, they are some pretty good docs on
converter - sorry, I don't remember where.

Regards,

DM I don't know, maybe I did something wrong. It is usually the case.

Ciao!