Second peer review attempt for a new ciwas m-FAQ

[Jan Roland Eriksson]

For those interested, read and rip it up as you wish :-)

=====

Archive-name: www/stylesheets/newsgroup-faq
Posting-Frequency: twice a week (mondays and thursdays)
Last-modified: July 20, 2004
Version: 2.00
URL: <http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html>
Maintainer: Jan Roland Eriksson <re*@css.nu>

comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets meta-FAQ v2.00
__________________________________________________ ____________________

00: ===== T O C =====

01: What is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets ?
02: What kinds of posts are acceptable in this news group ?
03: What kinds of posts may be acceptable in this news group ?
04: What kinds of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?
05: Where are the technical resources for this news group ?
06: How do I get best possible answers to my questions ?
07: What is the 'atmosphere' of ciwas ?
08: Where can I find the latest version of this FAQ ?

09: ==== End ====
__________________________________________________ ____________________

01: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets

A: This is an unmoderated news group which passed for creation by
votes of 166:19 as reported in <news.announce.newgroups> on
20 Mars 1997.

The charter of this news group, as culled from the vote result
announcement, states the following:

"This unmoderated news group is intended for the discussion of Web
style sheets. Style sheets can make an author's life much easier.
With style sheets, one only needs to specify presentational pre-
ferences once, and the style can be applied to an entire site.
Not only that, but style sheets also reduce download time when one
file contains all the style information."
02: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kinds of posts are acceptable in this news group ?

A: This news group is defined to be a forum for discussion of style
sheet technology and usage that is applicable to the WWW.

Examples of valid topics for this news group includes:

* How to achieve a particular effect with style sheets.
* The relative advantages of different style sheet languages.
* Specifications versus implementations.
* Bugs and limitations in implementations.
03: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kinds of posts may be acceptable in this news group ?

A: Articles on related WWW subjects (e.g. (X)HTML mark-up, client or
server side scripting languages, etc) that may be required for a
full discussion of a specific style sheet problem.

On general terms:

* articles on (X)HTML mark-up should be posted to
<comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html>

* articles on XML mark-up should be posted to <comp.text.xml>

* articles on DSSSL may be posted to <comp.text.sgml> but the most
correct forum might be the DSSSL mailing list at
<DS******@lists.mulberrytech.com> which has a main WWW entry at
<http://www.mulberrytech.com/dsssl/dssslist/>

* articles on client side scripting languages (e.g. Javascript,
Jscript etc) should be posted to <comp.lang.javascript>

* articles on server side scripting and/or programming languages
should be posted to the news group or mailing list most approp-
riate to the particular language in use. A search at
<http://www.google.com> may be of help to find the correct forum
for articles that are directly off-topic for
<comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets>
04: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What kind of posts are not acceptable in this news group ?

A: Some examples of inappropriate posts include:

* Chain letters, including "Make Money Fast" articles.
* Known hoaxes (like the "Good Times Virus").
* Announcements of non-relevant Web pages and services.
* Personal introductions or requests for e-mail.
* Off topic articles, questions or responses.
* Test articles.
* Articles cross-posted to several news groups where the article
is off-topic for one or more of the news groups in the cross-
post list.
* Articles posted as separate copies to many groups ("spam").
* Articles with significantly more quoted than new content.
* Articles offering items for sale and commercial advertisements.
* Articles which aren't primarily text in a standard alphabet
(e.g. binaries, pictures, Rot13, etc).
05: ===== Q & A =====

Q: Where are the technical resources for this news group ?

A: Available information on the subject of style sheets is too exten-
sive to be directly written into a posted document like this meta-
FAQ. It is suggested that you research your technical questions on
the use of style sheets in one or more of the following places on
the WWW.

* Style sheet information from the World Wide Web Consortium
(also known as the W3C) starts at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/>
and continues at <http://www.w3.org/Style/XSL/>

- The official recommendation for Cascading Style Sheets level 1
(aka CSS1) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1>

- The official recommendation for Cascading Style Sheets level 2
(aka CSS2) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/>

- The official errata document for Cascading Style Sheets level 2
(which is no longer maintained, in favor of the current ongoing
work on the CSS2.1 specification)

<http://www.w3.org/Style/css2-updates/REC-CSS2-19980512-errata.html>

- The official Candidate recommendation for Cascading Style
Sheets level 2.1 (which is currently a "work in progress"
document) <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/>

- The official recommendation for XSL Transformations (XSLT)
Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt>

- The official recommendation for XML Path Language (XPath)
Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath>

- The official recommendation for Extensible Stylesheet Language
(XSL/XSL-FO) Version 1.0 <http://www.w3.org/TR/xsl/>

* Information on other style sheet capable languages, document
transformation methods and specifications.

- Document Style Semantics and Specification Language (DSSSL)
<http://www.mulberrytech.com/dsssl/dssslist/>

- Formatting Output Specification Instance (FOSI)
<http://xml.coverpages.org/gov-apps.html#mil2167a>

- Interactive Electronic Technical Manuals (IETM)
<http://www.ietm.net/>
<http://navycals.dt.navy.mil/cals/documents/sp87269A.pdf>

- International Committee for Accessible Document Design (ICADD)
<http://xml.coverpages.org/ICADDiso.html>
<http://xml.coverpages.org/ICADDpur.html>
It should be noted that the HTML2 DTD was designed to be ICADD
compatible <http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1866.txt>

* Syntax checkers for CSS are available online from here
<http://www.htmlhelp.org/tools/csscheck/> (CSS1 primarily)
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/>

* True HTML syntax validators are available online from here
<http://www.htmlhelp.org/tools/validator/>
<http://valet.webthing.com/page/>
<http://validator.w3.org/>

* A commercial Windows front for James Clark's 'nsgmls' SGML
parser/validator is available from here
<http://arealvalidator.com/>

* In need of a good, all purpose (X)HTML - CSS, editor for the WIN
environment? Go to <http://www.notetab.com/> It's available in a
full sized commercial version as well as a slightly scaled down
free version, but its real value lies in the vast amount of free
add-in "clips" available for it. True DTD based validation of
your markup is just one of the modules that you do not have to
pay extra to have at your fingertips.

* W3C has a CSS test suite available, the work to design that test
suite was originally done by Eric A. Meyer but today it's main-
tained by Bert Bos.
<http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/>

* Eric Meyer's "Complex Spiral Demo" became a "classic example" at
the same time it was published. Eric shows the full capacity of
CSS1 (combined with a few, very basic, pick up's from CSS2)
<http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/complexspiral/demo.html>

* Todd Fahrner once designed a set of core stylesheets that was
placed on the W3C server system. Todd has found other (maybe
more valuable) interests in life as compared to participating
in discussions in ciwas, but his original excellent work is
still available, now maintained by Bert Bos.
<http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/Core/>

* The Web Design Group has a CSS reference here
<http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/css/>

* The authoring FAQ for this news group is at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-aFAQ.html>

* The HTML Writers Guild CSS FAQ, originally produced by Eva von
Pepel a few years back. Still claimed to be maintained by Eva
but has not been updated for quite some time
<http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/cssFAQ.html>

* To save some time on Google evaluations we have here a list of
CSS educational sites as culled from the two first result pages
from Google on the simple search key 'CSS'. Most of these sites
gets recommended every now and then by regulars in ciwas.

<http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp>
<http://www.csszengarden.com/>
<http://glish.com/css/>
<http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/>
<http://css.nu/>
<http://css.maxdesign.com.au/>
<http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/>
<http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/index.html>
<http://www.alistapart.com/topics/css/>
06: ===== Q & A =====

Q: How do I get best possible answers to my questions ?

A: First, please search this newsgroup for recent dicussion of your
issue(s) [a].
Next, make sure your (X)HTML markup is valid and that your CSS is
correctly formed; see Q&A #5 for links to (X)HTML validators and
CSS checkup resources.
If the problem remains, get your code pared down to a bare minimum,
which still shows the problem, and upload it to a www server.
When posting, indicate what you feel is wrong, what you'd like to
have happen instead, and include the URL to the test case you've
prepared.
This process often reveals the problem before you even have to ask,
and it saves time and effort for the helpful regulars who really do
want to assist you.

[a]<http://groups.google.com/groups?group=comp.infosystems.www.authoring.styles heets>
is an effective tool to search previous discussions in ciwas.
07: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is the 'atmosphere' of ciwas ?

A: Well, "strict" maybe a short definition, and naturally you will
find 'OT' discussions here just as well as you can find them in
other NG's. Still, over the years since the creation of ciwas,
basically three items has come to be essential for any one who
wants to place an article/comment in ciwas.

a) Make your comment in a natural conversation order, either below
the quoted material or in-line with it; Do Not "top-post".

b) Include quoted material (with attribution) but trim it down to
the essentials.

c) If your article is also on topic for other newsgroups, and you
want feedback from multiple newsgroups, crosspost your input to
a list of on topic NG's, Do Not post separate articles.

Don't be upset if your seemingly simple question triggers a long
thread of posts on other issues related to your input. After all
usenet is supposed to be a forum for discussions at first, not a
"help desk". All eventual help that can be had from a discussion
shall be looked upon as a "fringe benefit".

One ciwas usenaut has agreed to let his views of the NG be
referenced from this mFAQ at <http://www.css.nu/faq/ciwas-NG.html>
08: ===== Q & A =====

Q: Where can I find the latest version of this FAQ ?

A: This FAQ was last updated 2004/07/20 copyright 1998 ... 2004
-- Jan Roland Eriksson --

Permission to freely reproduce this document electronically is
given as long as the document remains uncut and unedited.

This FAQ is posted periodically to the NG every monday and thurs-
day and I'll endeavor to use the same subject line at all times
so that those of you who have seen it can kill-file the subject.

FAQ version number in subject line will be changed whenever the
document has been revised. You should be able to use that fact
when setting your kill filter to make sure that you have the
latest version available at all times.

This meta-FAQ is also available in HTML on the World Wide Web at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html> and as a text document at
<http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.txt> with the revision history of
this meta-FAQ at <http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ-rev.html>
09: ===== E N D =====
__________________________________________________ ____________________

[Brian]

Jan Roland Eriksson wrote:

For those interested, read and rip it up as you wish :-)

c) If your article is also on topic for other newsgroups, and you
want feedback from multiple newsgroups, crosspost your input to
a list of on topic NG's, Do Not post separate articles.

I hate to say this, as you've just changed this per Neal's request,
but I really don't like this part. I find it *extremely* rare that an
x-posted message really should have been x-posted. Most times, it is
needless. As such, I'd rather the faq not have language promoting
x-posting. Perhaps the following:
c) You should normally post a question to one group only. If and only
the topic of your message covers more than one group, you should
cross-post the article. Do not post separate articles with the same
message in different groups ("multiposting").

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Dave Patton]

Brian <us*****@julietremblay.com.invalid> wrote in
news:10*************@corp.supernews.com:

Jan Roland Eriksson wrote:

For those interested, read and rip it up as you wish :-)

c) If your article is also on topic for other newsgroups, and you
want feedback from multiple newsgroups, crosspost your input to
a list of on topic NG's, Do Not post separate articles.

I hate to say this, as you've just changed this per Neal's request,
but I really don't like this part. I find it *extremely* rare that an
x-posted message really should have been x-posted. Most times, it is
needless. As such, I'd rather the faq not have language promoting
x-posting.

Although the FAQ may primarily apply to this newsgroup, newbies
(and other people, who should already know better anyway) may
read it and learn some things that they can(i.e. should) apply
when they use other newsgroups. In that context, general advice
about cross-posting vs multi-posting is a good idea. Perhaps
a c.i.w.a.* note might also be appropriate(i.e. don't cross-post
CSS questions to the HTML group, etc).

P.S.
An example of routine, and appropriate, cross-posting is the
two GPS-related newsgroups, sci.geo.satellite-nav and
alt.satellite.gps

--
Dave Patton
Canadian Coordinator, Degree Confluence Project
http://www.confluence.org/
My website: http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/

[Brian]

Dave Patton wrote:

Brian wrote:

I find it *extremely* rare that an x-posted message really should
have been x-posted. Most times, it is needless.

Although the FAQ may primarily apply to this newsgroup, newbies
(and other people, who should already know better anyway) may read
it and learn some things that they can(i.e. should) apply when they
use other newsgroups.

I couldn't agree more. And my point about needless x-posting applies
to non-ciwa* groups equally well. :-)

--
Brian (remove ".invalid" to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Dr John Stockton]

JRS: In article <10*************@corp.supernews.com>, dated Tue, 20 Jul
2004 22:43:25, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets,
Brian <us*****@julietremblay.com.invalid> posted :

c) You should normally post a question to one group only. If and only
the topic of your message covers more than one group, you should
cross-post the article. Do not post separate articles with the same
message in different groups ("multiposting").

Note that the proper way of redirecting a thread to a different
newsgroup is with cross-post and follow-up.

If the terns cross-post and multi-post ate used, they need to be
defined, either in the document or by obvious citation :-

.... you should cross-post [e] the article ...
.... ...
[e] For News etiquette, including terminology used here, see <link>

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk DOS 3.3, 6.20; Win98. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQqish topics, acronyms & links.
PAS EXE TXT ZIP via <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/00index.htm>
My DOS <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/batfiles.htm> - also batprogs.htm.

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Brian wrote:

I hate to say this, as you've just changed this per Neal's request,
but I really don't like this part. I find it *extremely* rare that an
x-posted message really should have been x-posted. Most times, it is
needless.
The traditional Usenet guideline was to avoid cross-posting to
related groups, i.e only to use cross-posting where the topic
genuinely crossed two or more groups which were normally unrelated
but somehow had come together in the context of the problem.

And of course if a topic is appropriate for a *.misc group then it's
almost automatic than it'll be off-topic for corresponding
*.{specific} group(s), and vice-versa.

Then there's the guideline to suggest a followup group, if possible.

But this is all just traditional usenet hygiene - ideally it shouldn't
have to be spelled out for every separate group. So I'm always
divided on the question of whether this sort of thing should go into a
group FAQ (which sort-of hints that the group has its own flavour of
netiquette, when oftentimes it's only trying to promote the normal
rules of usenet behaviour), or leave it out, or somehow try to
summarise it, or what.
c) You should normally post a question to one group only. If and only
the topic of your message covers more than one group, you should
cross-post the article. Do not post separate articles with the same
message in different groups ("multiposting").

Fine, I wouldn't argue with that as a draft. I'd like somehow to cite
a pointer to general rules of usenet netiquette, but I haven't seen a
really reliable *and compact* netiquette guide that I'd pick from
choice, so I'm at a loss, really...

all the best.

[Jan Roland Eriksson]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:43:25 -0400, Brian
<us*****@julietremblay.com.invalid> wrote:

Jan Roland Eriksson wrote:

c) If your article is also on topic for other newsgroups...

...I really don't like this part... c) You should normally post a question to one group only. If and only
the topic of your message covers more than one group, you should
cross-post the article. Do not post separate articles with the same
message in different groups ("multiposting").

I have made some changes to this section, you and all others may want to
check my suggestion in the third test post.

All the best...

--
Rex