Accomplishing multiple-columns before CCS3 gets here?

[Dennis]

In CSS3 it looks like we'll have multiple column flowing of text
(newspaper style) in which the number of columns can be determined
automatically given the available horizontal space.
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/

Until then, what's the current best practice for achieving the same
effect? Or is it just not possible yet?

Thanks ...
Dennis

[Tim]

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:54:26 -0700,
Dennis <theonlyDennis@removeForSpam_mindspring.com> wrote:

In CSS3 it looks like we'll have multiple column flowing of text
(newspaper style) in which the number of columns can be determined
automatically given the available horizontal space.
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/

Until then, what's the current best practice for achieving the same
effect?

I, and many others, would say that the "best practice" is not to do that
sort of thing at all. It's a hideous way to try and read a webpage,
having to scroll up and down several times to read the one page. It's
rare that an entire page can be viewed without having to scroll the
page. It's like reading a magazine through a keyhole.

--
My "from" address is totally fake. The reply-to address is real, but
may be only temporary. Reply to usenet postings in the same place as
you read the message you're replying to.

[Dennis]

You make a good point. Bobbing up and down like that would indeed be
horrible. That hadn't occured to me because, in my case, I'm putting
up a list that doesn't have to be read consecutively. More important
in my case is for the user to be able to see as much as possible
without scrolling at all. But all that aside, presenting text in
manageable columns is a "natural" way to read, and with the advent of
very wide monitors, we're going to have to find a way to accomodate
it, wouldn't you say? Boy, here's one for CSS to tackle: the text
wraps itself in columns according to the size of the browser's content
window! PageUp and PageDown takes you to the different regions.
"Pages" would be assembeled by CSS in very sophisticated ways --all
reflecting the screen size (and other selections such as font size)
the user makes. I can see it all now... if you have an image that
needs to be adjacent to a given part of the text, you create an
"affiliation" between the text and the image and CSS makes sure it
all comes out OK. Whoa.

Dennis.

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:05:46 +0930, Tim <ad***@sheerhell.lan> wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:54:26 -0700,
Dennis <theonlyDennis@removeForSpam_mindspring.com> wrote:

In CSS3 it looks like we'll have multiple column flowing of text
(newspaper style) in which the number of columns can be determined
automatically given the available horizontal space.
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/

Until then, what's the current best practice for achieving the same
effect?

I, and many others, would say that the "best practice" is not to do that
sort of thing at all. It's a hideous way to try and read a webpage,
having to scroll up and down several times to read the one page. It's
rare that an entire page can be viewed without having to scroll the
page. It's like reading a magazine through a keyhole.

[Matthias Gutfeldt]

Tim wrote:

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:54:26 -0700,
Dennis <theonlyDennis@removeForSpam_mindspring.com> wrote:

In CSS3 it looks like we'll have multiple column flowing of text
(newspaper style) in which the number of columns can be determined
automatically given the available horizontal space.
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/

Until then, what's the current best practice for achieving the same
effect?

I, and many others, would say that the "best practice" is not to do that
sort of thing at all. It's a hideous way to try and read a webpage,
having to scroll up and down several times to read the one page.

Well, an early proposal mentions multicol for printing and wide screens
<http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-CSS-potential#id2084367450>. And it would be
very handy for the @print media type.

Of course it doesn't make sense to have columns higher than the
viewport. But there are no multicol properties for height: that would be
the job of the box model and/or the UA.

FWIW, it's still a Working Draft, not a final Recommendation. We don't
know what it's going to look like in the end, and whether it'll be in
CSS3 at all.
Matthias

[Dennis]

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 09:07:16 +0200, Matthias Gutfeldt
<sa************@gmx.net> wrote:

Well, an early proposal mentions multicol for printing and wide screens

<http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-CSS-potential#id2084367450>. And it would be
very handy for the @print media type.

Of course it doesn't make sense to have columns higher than the
viewport. But there are no multicol properties for height: that would be
the job of the box model and/or the UA.

FWIW, it's still a Working Draft, not a final Recommendation. We don't
know what it's going to look like in the end, and whether it'll be in
CSS3 at all.
Matthias

If HTML and CSS can wrap everything from left to right and leave us
with vertrical scrolling, there's no reason why we can't put in place
a provision to wrap everything from top to bottom (eg, columns) and do
our scrolling horizontally. If you think about it, horizontal
scrolling would be better for most purposes --even on non-internet
text and graphic applications. Historically we just got started with
"up and down", but I'll wager you in a few years nearly everything
will be "left and right." At least we're finally getting started
(hopefully) on it. In the meantime, there's always Flash!

Dennis

[Kris]

In article <39********************************@4ax.com>,
Dennis <theonlyDennis@removeForSpam_mindspring.com> wrote:

Well, an early proposal mentions multicol for printing and wide screens

<http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-CSS-potential#id2084367450>. And it would be
very handy for the @print media type.

Of course it doesn't make sense to have columns higher than the
viewport. But there are no multicol properties for height: that would be
the job of the box model and/or the UA.

FWIW, it's still a Working Draft, not a final Recommendation. We don't
know what it's going to look like in the end, and whether it'll be in
CSS3 at all.
Matthias

If HTML and CSS can wrap everything from left to right and leave us
with vertrical scrolling, there's no reason why we can't put in place
a provision to wrap everything from top to bottom (eg, columns) and do
our scrolling horizontally. If you think about it, horizontal
scrolling would be better for most purposes --even on non-internet
text and graphic applications. Historically we just got started with
"up and down", but I'll wager you in a few years nearly everything
will be "left and right." At least we're finally getting started
(hopefully) on it. In the meantime, there's always Flash!

Recent opinions on column layouts for continuous content:
<http://modulo26.net/daily/100903.php>
<http://www.abouthalf.com/status/arch...ense+of+single
+columns.html>
If the last one is a broken URL, try <http://tinyurl.com/r4dq>.

--
Kris
kr*******@xs4all.netherlands (nl)

[Dennis]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:05:12 +0200, Kris
<kr*******@xs4all.netherlands> wrote:

Recent opinions on column layouts for continuous content:
<http://modulo26.net/daily/100903.php>
<http://www.abouthalf.com/status/arch...ense+of+single
+columns.html>
If the last one is a broken URL, try <http://tinyurl.com/r4dq>.

--
Kris
kr*******@xs4all.netherlands (nl)

Thanks for those links! It's nice to see people are talking about
columns. The multiple column style at
http://www.iht.com/articles/114215.html referred to by the critic of
multiple columns is very nicely done (the columns wrap!), and I'm
going to study it. Unfortnuately, it's fixed to either 1 or 3 columns
--that is, the number of columns does not automatically reflect the
width of the user's screen or the font size the user has selected.
But as the critic correctly concludes:

"In order for multiple linked columns of text to work in a fluid
environment like the web, they would have to dynamically adjust to the
size of the available screen space, creating enough columns to fit all
the text within one screen. Any technology that did this would also
have to be intelligent enough to fall back on a single long scrollable
column when no amount of column re-arranging would fit all the copy
into one screen.

This scenario is hardly the fixed, orderly print-column idea that
people have in mind when they think of columns, and there is not a
technology for doing such a thing yet.(empahsis on yet)"

Indeed.

Dennis