overflow is not auto?

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

I have a simple test document which produce
the following in Mozilla and Opera:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
Internet Explorer behaves as per recommendation (I guess)

Did I miss something and width of paragraph can be set less than its content
(without overflow specification)?

Document is here:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.htm

Thanks in advance.

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

[David Dorward]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

I have a simple test document which produce
the following in Mozilla and Opera:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
Internet Explorer behaves as per recommendation (I guess)
Mozilla and Opera do one thing, IE does another and you think IE is right?!
Did I miss something and width of paragraph can be set less than its
content (without overflow specification)?

Overflow must be set somewhere, even if that somewhere is the browser
default.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visufx.html#overflow
'overflow'
Initial: visible

visible
This value indicates that content is not clipped, i.e., it may be
rendered outside the block box.

- So Mozilla and Opera are doing The Right Thing.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>

[DU]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

I have a simple test document which produce
the following in Mozilla and Opera:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
Internet Explorer behaves as per recommendation (I guess)

Did I miss something and width of paragraph can be set less than its content
(without overflow specification)?

Document is here:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.htm

Thanks in advance.

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

It is widely known that MSIE 5+ does not support overflow: visible the
way the CSS2 spec. defined that declaration.

DU

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

Thanks David for your response.

If 'overflow' is set to 'visible' by default to body element then
scrollbars will never appear. Right?

Seems like a bug. But where? In specification or in UA?

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com
"David Dorward" <do*****@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c8*******************@news.demon.co.uk...

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

I have a simple test document which produce
the following in Mozilla and Opera:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
Internet Explorer behaves as per recommendation (I guess)
Mozilla and Opera do one thing, IE does another and you think IE is

right?!

Did I miss something and width of paragraph can be set less than its
content (without overflow specification)?

Overflow must be set somewhere, even if that somewhere is the browser
default.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visufx.html#overflow
'overflow'
Initial: visible

visible
This value indicates that content is not clipped, i.e., it may be
rendered outside the block box.

- So Mozilla and Opera are doing The Right Thing.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

> It is widely known that MSIE 5+ does not support overflow: visible the

way the CSS2 spec. defined that declaration.

Seem like that you didn't get the idea...

IMHO, it is just a bug reproduced in both Mozilla and Opera.
They have problems counting margins declared in body element.

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

[Brian]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

It is widely known that MSIE 5+ does not support overflow: visible
the way the CSS2 spec. defined that declaration.
Seem like that you didn't get the idea...

Or perhaps that you didn't get the idea.
IMHO,
Your opinion has little bearing on what the spec says.
it is just a bug reproduced in both Mozilla and Opera.
Well, what does the css spec say should happen? That's sort of
definitive, irrespective of your opinion.
They have problems counting margins declared in body element.

So far, all you've produced is a test showing different behavior in
different browsers and a "guess" as to which one is correct. Not very
convincing.

BTW, I see no borders at all in MSIE 5.5/Win, but I do see borders and
the overflow in Opera at a tiny window width.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

OK, I'll try to explain it in different way.

What we know so far:

The default value of overflow attribute is 'visible'.

(http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visufx.html#overflow)

1) this will apply to body also I guess.
2) if so then generally speaking scrollbars should not appear at all in UA's
window.

And sure I am getting this:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
(http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.htm)
in Mozilla and Opera. And they are right according to CSS.

Seems like Internet Explorer always respects intrinsic content dimensions
and is using something like overflow:none
For me personally IE's behavior is more "humanistic" as it follows historic
traditions of HTML.

Since I did not find such thing as overflow:none in CSS spec I have a
question then:

How to say that paragraph dimensions will never be less
than its content in CSS?

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

[Brian]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

I did not find such thing as overflow:none in CSS spec

No, but overflow:hidden is in that spec.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...def-visibility

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

> > I did not find such thing as overflow:none in CSS spec

No, but overflow:hidden is in that spec.
So what?

<quote>
hidden
This value indicates that the content is clipped and that no scrolling
mechanism should be provided to view the content outside the clipping
region; users will not have access to clipped content. The size and shape of
the clipping region is specified by the 'clip' property.
</quote>

How does overflow:hidden correlate with the task : "to show paragraph in
full" (a.k.a. overflow:none) ?

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...def-visibility

This link is about the 'visibility' property. Any intention or just
mistyping?

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

[Brian]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

I did not find such thing as overflow:none in CSS spec

overflow:hidden is in that spec.

How does overflow:hidden correlate with the task : "to show paragraph
in full" (a.k.a. overflow:none) ?

Since you're asking for help, might want to tone down the exasperation a
tad.

I see *nothing* in the op to indicate that you want nothing clipped. And
overflow: none, which you now know doesn't exist, makes it sound like
you want the text to not overflow its box, i.e., to be hidden if at all
possible. So I was thinking of overflow: hidden.

Perhaps you could explain, from the top, what exactly you want to happen.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...def-visibility

This link is about the 'visibility' property. Any intention or just
mistyping?

Should have been further up the page. Instead of visibility, I wanted to
point you to overflow: hidden (another property of overflow is visible,
hence my mistake).

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...opdef-overflow

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Andrew Fedoniouk]

>

Since you're asking for help, might want to tone down the exasperation a
tad.

I see *nothing* in the op to indicate that you want nothing clipped. And
overflow: none, which you now know doesn't exist, makes it sound like
you want the text to not overflow its box, i.e., to be hidden if at all
possible. So I was thinking of overflow: hidden.
:) Sorry if temperature of my statements is little bit high.

But if you are trying to help then read first what was written before :)

"How to say that paragraph dimensions will never be less
than its content in CSS?"

And your answer is "overflow:hidden" for that. What is this?

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com

I see *nothing* in the op to indicate that you want nothing clipped. And
overflow: none, which you now know doesn't exist, makes it sound like
you want the text to not overflow its box, i.e., to be hidden if at all
possible. So I was thinking of overflow: hidden.

Perhaps you could explain, from the top, what exactly you want to happen.

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...def-visibility

This link is about the 'visibility' property. Any intention or just
mistyping?

Should have been further up the page. Instead of visibility, I wanted to
point you to overflow: hidden (another property of overflow is visible,
hence my mistake).

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/visufx...opdef-overflow

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

/Andrew Fedoniouk/:

It is widely known that MSIE 5+ does not support overflow: visible the
way the CSS2 spec. defined that declaration.

Seem like that you didn't get the idea...

IMHO, it is just a bug reproduced in both Mozilla and Opera.
They have problems counting margins declared in body element.

No, you don't understand - switch IE6 to standards-compliance mode
using appropriate DOCTYPE [1] declaration:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">

and compare again.

Generally the CSS spec states for HTML, background properties
applied to the BODY element should be set on the root element (the
canvas) if no background has been set on the root element itself.
But then in quirks mode IE seems to copy the border properties to
the canvas, too - which is not right of course.

[1]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/a...ts/doctype.asp

--
Stanimir

[Brian]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

if you are trying to help then read first what was written before :)
Well, of course I did.
"How to say that paragraph dimensions will never be less than its
content in CSS?"
Yep, I read that part, too. The writing is not clear, I'm afraid. You
have a misplaced prepositional phrase. You wrote, "its content in CSS."
That makes no sense. A <p> element does not have content in CSS, it has
content in HTML. I don't point this out to nitpick, but to explain why I
don't know what you're after.

You modify its default presentation in CSS. Do you want the content
width to never be so low that its content can't be shown? Because when I
looked at the .png you supplied in the op, that's exactly what I saw: a
paragraph that flowed outside of the border, all its content shown. And
I confirmed that behavior in Opera. Since you were complaining about
that behavior, I assumed that you wanted different behavior, i.e., for
the content to be clipped.
And your answer is "overflow:hidden" for that. What is this?

A way to hide content that does not fit in its box.

--
Brian (remove "invalid" from my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

[Leif K-Brooks]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

"How to say that paragraph dimensions will never be less
than its content in CSS?"

And your answer is "overflow:hidden" for that. What is this?

I'm guessing you want to box to stop getting smaller when the window
gets too small for it to hold its content, so that the box will be
larger than the viewport and will trigger a horizontal scrollbar. As far
as I know, that can't be done in CSS withot display:table-cell which IE
doesn't support.

[Lauri Raittila]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

OK, I'll try to explain it in different way.

What we know so far:

The default value of overflow attribute is 'visible'.

(http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visufx.html#overflow)

1) this will apply to body also I guess.
Yes.
2) if so then generally speaking scrollbars should not appear at all in UA's
window.

UA window != body element. Of course then can be scrollbars on canvas.
Why wouldn't there.

As you can easily test, forcing scrollbars on body element, that is not
same size as canvas, you can get 2 pairs of scrollbars.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
I'm looking for work | Etsin työtä

[DU]

Andrew Fedoniouk wrote:

OK, I'll try to explain it in different way.

What we know so far:

The default value of overflow attribute is 'visible'.
MSIE 6 for windows in standards compliant rendering mode, the root
element has the declaration overflow: scroll, not overflow: auto.

(http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visufx.html#overflow)

1) this will apply to body also I guess.
Not in standards compliant rendering mode.
2) if so then generally speaking scrollbars should not appear at all in UA's
window.

Open an about:blank page in MSIE 6: it does have a vertical scrollbar
because it default browser declaration is overflow-y: scroll.
And sure I am getting this:
http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.png
(http://terrainformatica.com/w3/p2/problem1.htm)
in Mozilla and Opera. And they are right according to CSS.

Seems like Internet Explorer always respects intrinsic content dimensions

I did not create this following image, MSDN did:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en...tml/boxdim.gif

and is using something like overflow:none
overflow:none? Where do you see this exactly?
For me personally IE's behavior is more "humanistic" as it follows historic
traditions of HTML.

humanistic, historic, traditions? You're speaking in a web programming
language newsgroup, you see. Either a browser comply with web standards
defined by a consortium of the top 500 major IT companies or it does not.

DU
Since I did not find such thing as overflow:none in CSS spec I have a
question then:

How to say that paragraph dimensions will never be less
than its content in CSS?

Andrew Fedoniouk.
http://terrainformatica.com