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Meta tags and Google

P: n/a
Hello groups.

I have a series of applet computer games on my homepage:

http://vredungmand.dk/games/erik-spillet/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/nohats/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/minorbug/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/timbuktu/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/taleban/index.html

I am trying to get them properly indexed and categorized by Google (and
their AdSense engine).

The surrounding HTML contains little text so I rely on HTML meta tags to
provide search engines the information they need.

If I search for the game "mr. Platfoot" I can see that Google is using the
meta description from my page:

http://www.google.dk/search?q=mr.+pl...-8&hl=da&meta=

However if I search for "Taleban vs. Robot" then Google is not using the
meta description:

http://www.google.dk/search?hl=da&ie...s.+Robot&meta=

If I take a look at the cached version, I can see from the source that
Google has a version with my meta description in it:

http://www.google.dk/search?q=cache:...hl=da&ie=UTF-8

Can anyone explain why Google is not using the meta description in the
latter case?

I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are completely
ignored by Google. Does anyone have any hints on how to get Google to use
this data? I would really hate having to use "hidden" text on my super
standards compliant HTML pages :-D

-- Christian
Jul 20 '05 #1
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19 Replies


P: n/a
Google takes a snapshot of the text it thinks is most relevant on your page
and presents that in the search results.

"Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org> wrote in message
news:40***********************@nntp05.dk.telia.net ...
Hello groups.

I have a series of applet computer games on my homepage:

http://vredungmand.dk/games/erik-spillet/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/nohats/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/minorbug/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/timbuktu/index.html
http://vredungmand.dk/games/taleban/index.html

I am trying to get them properly indexed and categorized by Google (and
their AdSense engine).

The surrounding HTML contains little text so I rely on HTML meta tags to
provide search engines the information they need.

If I search for the game "mr. Platfoot" I can see that Google is using the
meta description from my page:

http://www.google.dk/search?q=mr.+pl...-8&hl=da&meta=

However if I search for "Taleban vs. Robot" then Google is not using the
meta description:

http://www.google.dk/search?hl=da&ie...s.+Robot&meta=
If I take a look at the cached version, I can see from the source that
Google has a version with my meta description in it:

http://www.google.dk/search?q=cache:...hl=da&ie=UTF-8
Can anyone explain why Google is not using the meta description in the
latter case?

I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are completely ignored by Google. Does anyone have any hints on how to get Google to use
this data? I would really hate having to use "hidden" text on my super
standards compliant HTML pages :-D

-- Christian

Jul 20 '05 #2

P: n/a
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:57:36 +0100, "Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org>
declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,alt.internet.search-engines:
I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are completely
ignored by Google.
And most (all?) other search engines. They have been abused too much in
the past.
Does anyone have any hints on how to get Google to use
this data?
You can't. Have good quality text on the pages, and lots of quality
sites linking to it. That's it.
I would really hate having to use "hidden" text on my super
standards compliant HTML pages :-D


That's called spamming the search engines and will get your site dropped
altogether.
http://www.google.com.au/webmasters/guidelines.html

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
Jul 20 '05 #3

P: n/a
Hello Vrede Unge Mand
"Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org> skrev i en meddelelse
news:40***********************@nntp05.dk.telia.net ...
The surrounding HTML contains little text so I rely on HTML meta tags to
provide search engines the information they need.
Google ignores META tags. You have to use plain text (and titles and
headers).
If I search for the game "mr. Platfoot" I can see that Google is using the
meta description from my page:
True. Google sometimes displays the meta description.
Particularly if there's no relevant text on the page itself.
However if I search for "Taleban vs. Robot" then Google is not using the
meta description:
Right again. Google ignores keywords in meta tags.
If I take a look at the cached version, I can see from the source that
Google has a version with my meta description in it:
Google caches the entire page - meta tags and all.
But it doesn't look at the meta tags
.. Can anyone explain why Google is not using the meta description in the
latter case?
Again, the only use Google has for meta tags is that it will sometimes
display the meta description.

< I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are
completely ignored by Google.
They are.
Does anyone have any hints on how to get Google to use
this data?
You can't. Unlessyou work in the Google Plex.
I would really hate having to use "hidden" text on my super
standards compliant HTML pages :-D


What's wrong with visible text? Some of the best pages on the Net have
visible text ;-)
And don't forget title, headers and linked alt text.

/Martin Hagstrøm

Jul 20 '05 #4

P: n/a
Christian Hvid wrote:
I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are
completely ignored by Google. Does anyone have any hints on how to
get Google to use this data? I would really hate having to use
"hidden" text on my super standards compliant HTML pages :-D


You could try feeding the Googlebot a different page to everyone else when
it comes spidering, but that's naughty. Or you could just create textual
pages for each game with a big screenshot, and make that a link to the
relevent game page.
Jul 20 '05 #5

P: n/a
Mark Parnell <we*******@clarkecomputers.com.au> wrote in message news:<73****************************@40tude.net>.. .
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:57:36 +0100, "Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org>
declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html,alt.internet.search-engines:
I also added meta keywords, whoever as far as I can tell they are completely
ignored by Google.


And most (all?) other search engines. They have been abused too much in
the past.


Uargh!
Does anyone have any hints on how to get Google to use
this data?


You can't. Have good quality text on the pages, and lots of quality
sites linking to it. That's it.


Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.

If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance. Instructions (if any) are displayed in
seperate page, in a new window. (See mr. Platfoot for an example:
http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html).

The problem is not getting a good ranking but rather getting a proper
categorization. If I don't get a proper categorization I can't get the
Google AdSense advertisement engine to display relevant ads.

Could an idea be to create a div element that is hidden by default,
but pops up with game instructions when the user asks for it? Or is
that non compliance with the good moral and ethics of the information
super highway? Maybe it just won't be indexed.
I would really hate having to use "hidden" text on my super
standards compliant HTML pages :-D


That's called spamming the search engines and will get your site dropped
altogether.
http://www.google.com.au/webmasters/guidelines.html


Oh.
Jul 20 '05 #6

P: n/a
Christian Hvid wrote:
Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.

If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance.
Are you sure, have you experimented with it?

http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html).
Cute little game!

The problem is not getting a good ranking but rather getting a proper
categorization. If I don't get a proper categorization I can't get th
Google AdSense advertisement engine to display relevant ads.


Right now I see ads for "wooden puzzles" and "crossword puzzles". I
guess it takes that 'puzzle' hint from the META description, so you
might actually have some luck with a more 'categorically correct' META.
Matthias

Jul 20 '05 #7

P: n/a
Christian Hvid wrote:

Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.

If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance. Instructions (if any) are displayed in
seperate page, in a new window. (See mr. Platfoot for an example:
http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html).

The problem is not getting a good ranking but rather getting a proper
categorization. If I don't get a proper categorization I can't get the
Google AdSense advertisement engine to display relevant ads.

Could an idea be to create a div element that is hidden by default,
but pops up with game instructions when the user asks for it? Or is
that non compliance with the good moral and ethics of the information
super highway? Maybe it just won't be indexed.


I wouldn't play around too much with hiding my text. You never know if
Google already bans it or will in the future. What I would suggest is
e.g. using a div with a fixed height and overflow to auto, somewhere to
the left or bottom or right of the Java applet (which looks great, by
the way). You absolutely must do that in order to have AdSense show
relevant ads. Now what are relevant ads? You should figure that out. It
will probably be people advertising for their games. So in the game
instructions write text like this:
"This is a freeware Java applet game that can be played using your
browser. This online game in the category Jump and Run is ..."
etc.
If you enter above text into Google you will see the ads to the right,
which might be along the lines of what your AdSense would serve.

--
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com
Jul 20 '05 #8

P: n/a
"Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:cd**************************@posting.google.c om...
If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance. Instructions (if any) are displayed in
seperate page, in a new window. (See mr. Platfoot for an example:
http://vredungmand.dk/games/platfoot/index.html).


Hey I don't understand what you mean - adding a box of text (with a very
short overview over the game and the instructions) below the game would IMO
definitely improve the overall user experience. The user experience is not
olny about how nice things look but also about how easily information is
found (and I am sure you are able to make the text box look nice anyway).

A rule of thumb: What is good for the search engine is usually good for the
user, too.

--
Markus
Jul 20 '05 #9

P: n/a
Christian Hvid wrote:
Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.


Why not?

Just write some copy that describes your game, and place it between your
<applet> and </applet> tags. It will serve two purposes - people who are
using non-Java browsers, or who have disabled Java for whatever reason,
might be intrigued enough by your description to return to your site with
either a different browser or with Java enabled. Also, search engines will
see it.

Oh, and while you're there - ditch the <applet> and replace it with
<object>. <applet> has been deprecated for ages.

sherm--
Jul 20 '05 #10

P: n/a
On 4 Feb 2004 00:57:37 -0800, ch***@acm.org (Christian Hvid) wrote:
You can't. Have good quality text on the pages, and lots of quality
sites linking to it. That's it.
Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.

If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance. Instructions (if any) are displayed in
seperate page, in a new window.


Turn your idea on its head. Put good quality text on your instructions
pages, ensure they link to each other (directly or via an index page),
and include a link from each set of instructions to the game itself.
Voila!

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Jul 20 '05 #11

P: n/a
Tim
On Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:57:36 +0100,
"Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org> wrote:
I am trying to get them properly indexed and categorized by Google (and
their AdSense engine).

The surrounding HTML contains little text so I rely on HTML meta tags to
provide search engines the information they need.


Search engines will use references *to* a page to categorise things. If
a page has little content, then describe something properly on a page
that links *to* it, to get it indexed sensibly. Ensure that such
descriptive pages also have good links to them. Though good use of
headings and titles on the pages in question should help get them
indexed properly, even if you don't have much text on them.

--
My "from" address is totally fake. The reply-to address is real, but
may be only temporary. Reply to usenet postings in the same place as
you read the message you're replying to.

This message was sent without a virus, please delete some files yourself.
Jul 20 '05 #12

P: n/a
That is a really good idea. Thank you.

"Sherm Pendley" <sp******@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:9P********************@adelphia.com...
Christian Hvid wrote:
Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.


Why not?

Just write some copy that describes your game, and place it between your
<applet> and </applet> tags. It will serve two purposes - people who are
using non-Java browsers, or who have disabled Java for whatever reason,
might be intrigued enough by your description to return to your site with
either a different browser or with Java enabled. Also, search engines will
see it.

Oh, and while you're there - ditch the <applet> and replace it with
<object>. <applet> has been deprecated for ages.

sherm--

Jul 20 '05 #13

P: n/a

"Matthias Gutfeldt" <sa************@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bv************@ID-16734.news.uni-berlin.de...
Christian Hvid wrote:
Uargh. It is an applet. There is no text.

If I put "good quality text" on the pages it will disturb and worsen
the overall user experiance.


Are you sure, have you experimented with it?


Did plenty of experimentation with good quality text - they all failed :-D

No, seriously.

I will try first putting something in the applet tag and then maybe under
the applet as short 1-2 line description.

Thank yer all for your good suggestions.
Jul 20 '05 #14

P: n/a
"Matthias Gutfeldt" <sa************@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:bv************@ID-16734.news.uni-berlin.de...

Right now I see ads for "wooden puzzles" and "crossword puzzles". I
guess it takes that 'puzzle' hint from the META description, so you
might actually have some luck with a more 'categorically correct' META.


Yes. Maybe I was being impatient. The ads have definately improved their
relevance in the past few days.

Jul 20 '05 #15

P: n/a
Matthew Cook wrote:

You could try feeding the Googlebot a different page to everyone
else when it comes spidering, but that's naughty.


It's not only naughty, it might get you booted from Google altogether.
Perhaps it's just a scare tactic, but they claim to compare the
content of a page sent to Googlebot and the content of the same page
sent to everyone else; if they're different, they're deemed to be
cloaking and dropped from the index.

--
Brian (follow directions in my address to email me)
http://www.tsmchughs.com/

Jul 20 '05 #16

P: n/a
Tim
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:47:39 +0100,
"Christian Hvid" <ch***@acm.org> wrote:
Did plenty of experimentation with good quality text - they all failed :-D


You probably didn't wait long enough. Search engines index pages
periodically, when they feel like it.

--
My "from" address is totally fake. The reply-to address is real, but
may be only temporary. Reply to usenet postings in the same place as
you read the message you're replying to.

This message was sent without a virus, please delete some files yourself.
Jul 20 '05 #17

P: n/a
Sherm Pendley <sp******@dot-app.org> wrote:
Just write some copy that describes your game, and place it between
your <applet> and </applet> tags. It will serve two purposes -
people who are using non-Java browsers, or who have disabled Java
for whatever reason, might be intrigued enough by your description
to return to your site with either a different browser or with Java
enabled.
Good point in principle, but in practice only some advanced browsers
like Lynx actually implement <applet> as defined, in this respect.
Graphic browsers with Java support seem to think they know Java even
when the support is enabled.

Writing alternative content inside <applet> element is the Right Way,
of course. But due to inadequate implementation in some widespread
browsers, it's probably best to include some note _after_ (or before)
the <applet> element, too. For example, the page could start with a
<h1> heading, suitably styled if desired, telling what the page is
about, followed by <applet>, followed by a subtle note that explicitly
mentions the word "applet" to give a clue. A copyright notice, or some
credits, for example.
Also, search engines will see it.
Good point.
Oh, and while you're there - ditch the <applet> and replace it with
<object>. <applet> has been deprecated for ages.


I had thought <applet> had wider support and <object> was essentially
broken, but when I tested it was indeed rather the other way around.
Using <object>, I get the applet playing as using <applet> on IE, but
on Mozilla and Opera, both installed without Java support, <object>
gives me the intended fallback whereas <applet> gives me a gray
rectangle, possibly with some "click here to install plugin" link.

But I'm a bit uncertain about <object> support (as regards to using
<object> for applets) on IE 5.x.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Jul 20 '05 #18

P: n/a
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tut.fi> wrote ...
Oh, and while you're there - ditch the <applet> and replace it with
<object>. <applet> has been deprecated for ages.


I had thought <applet> had wider support and <object> was essentially
broken, but when I tested it was indeed rather the other way around.
Using <object>, I get the applet playing as using <applet> on IE, but
on Mozilla and Opera, both installed without Java support, <object>
gives me the intended fallback whereas <applet> gives me a gray
rectangle, possibly with some "click here to install plugin" link.

But I'm a bit uncertain about <object> support (as regards to using
<object> for applets) on IE 5.x.

<object> support in IE is indeed flawed. If you try to execute an
applet using:

<object classid="java:test.class" width="xx" height="xx">Alt
text</object>

in IE browsers the Microsoft JVM (Java 1.1.4) is used, no matter what
you do or what plug-ins you might have. In my testing I have found
that the <applet> tag has a more predictable and consistent behavior
in browers both new and old. It is not perfect but overall I see it as
the better choice.

As for the games, it seems to me to be a good idea to have an
introduction page for each game where the user would come to first
before going to the game. Because some people do not have Java enabled
and to account for the varied methods of handling Java by browsers, an
introductory page could let the user know if they have Java installed,
the correct version, etc. It seems to me that a page like this would
be what your looking for in helping search engines find your games.
Just my thoughts.

Shane Anderson
Web Accessibility in Mind (WebAIM.org)
Jul 20 '05 #19

P: n/a
sh***@cpd2.usu.edu (Shane) wrote:
<object> support in IE is indeed flawed.


More flawed than I thought. (Big surprise.) My previous notes were
based on my mistake of turning an <applet> element into an <object>
element just by replacing the element name. That's wrong, since the
code="..." attribute, specifying the applet code (class) in an <applet>
element, is invalid in an <object> element. An interesting design
feature in HTML. And on IE the applet works if I use that invalid
attribute, but not when I use the data="..." attribute.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Jul 20 '05 #20

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