Are files referenced in LONGDESC attributes supposed to be pure text; can or
should they have either block or inline HTML tags; can or should they be set
up as a fully W3C compliant web page (with DOCTYPE, <html>, <body>, etc.)?
--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Jul 20 '05
51  3855 
"Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@ph.gla.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pi*******************************@ppepc56.ph. gla.ac.uk... On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Harlan Messinger wrote:
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tut.fi> wrote in message common constructs like
<p><img alt="Y" src="Y.gif">ucca said that...</p>
intended to create a decorative initial.
*This* strikes me as a hack that shouldn't be expected to work,
I wouldn't encourage its use except in specialised circumstances; but
the idea has surely been familiar since the early days of the Netscape
corp, when everyone and his dog was putting notices about their site
being <img src="Nlogo.gif">etscape-enhanced.
Until now the exhortations I've been seeing here have been to follow "proper
practice", which in general means NOT to do what old Netscape did. It's
strange to see Netscape used now as even a mild justification.
[snip] page. I have suggested the convention of putting an alt text into
brackets when it is actually just a description and not a replacement,
e.g. alt="[my horses], as opposite to alt="I have three horses."
For a speech synthesizer, that's no help.
I don't grasp your meaning. Now sure - by default when IBM HPR was
presented with that, it bawled out LEFT SQUARE BRACKET etc. in a very
intrusive way, but it can be taught to do what the user wants, and the
convention mentioned by Jukka is indeed a long-standing one on the
WWW. Sometimes it can be better to follow an accepted convention even
if you wouldn't have chosen it as your own preference.
It seems inconsistent to me that it would be intrusive for a reader to give
some indication that an image was being processed, but that it would
actually speak brackets included directly in the text.
I'm rapidly reaching the conclusion that it's impossible to tell what a
non-image-displaying browser is going to do, and that the concept of a
"correct" thing to do with alt text is a wild goose. For one thing, I don't
think there's any general way to come up with alt text that will work
optimally in both text browsers AND speech browsers.
As for text browsers, I don't see how it makes things any clearer,
since the user has no way to know that the brackets represent an alt
attribute rather than actual brackets in the text.
Nor indeed that the vertical bars inserted by some text browsers for
tabular data are not present in the original text. Be reasonable:
these kinds of text browsers only have character cells to play with,
they can't display anything that isn't a text character. It comes
with the territory; they have to work with the materials to hand.
"Tim" <ad***@sheerhell.lan> wrote in message
news:db********************************@4ax.com... "Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tut.fi> wrote
Seriously, I may have misformulated my point. What I meant was
primarily related to the problem of adjacent <img> elements and whether
their alt texts should be considered as adjacent too. I still think
they should. Otherwise there would be quite unnecessary problems with
common constructs like
<p><img alt="Y" src="Y.gif">ucca said that...</p>
intended to create a decorative initial.
I'd expect the image, or the alternative text, to be in the same place
that the <img> element is, so long as you've not done something else to
reposition the image (e.g. floated it to the right, or added padding).
Just the same as we'd expect any other properly placed HTML element to
be where it's place in the source, relative to what comes before and
after it; taking the usual white space rules into account.
"Harlan Messinger" <h.*********@comcast.net> wrote:
*This* strikes me as a hack that shouldn't be expected to work, with the
"Y" treated not only in the flow, but *as part of the word to which it is
adjacent*.
Why, though? Images are inline objects;
This word is being overloaded here, in the object-oriented programming
sense. "Inline" in HTML means "as opposed to block". But (sorry to keep
harping on this analogy) unless you're building a rebus, images are not
textually "inline" with the text they accompany, and it only confuses the
user to treat them as such. If the standard says, "Treat them as such", then
the standard is responsible for the confusion.
they can be in-line with some
text, it has an alternative, and there's no significant white space
either side of the image, either.
I wouldn't call it a hack, it's doing precisely what the specifications
allow.
The two aren't contradictory.
Whether it's a brilliant idea, or not, is another matter. Then
you're into the realms of opinion. This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
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