Currently, I'm marking up a few pages in German, containing quite some
English abbreviations. The abbreviations are marked up as <abbr>
with the appropriate title attribute, and -- when appropriate -- I add
a "class='initialism'" to tell speach browers to spell it out
rather than to read it as one word (Ben Meadowcroft's idea).
Simple example:
<abbr title="Hypertext Markup Language" class="initialism">HTML</abbr>
Now, the point is, that I want the content of the _element_ (i.e.
"HTML") to be spelled out in German (as defined in <html lang="de">,
but the content of the title-attribute to be spoken in English. Adding
the attribute "lang='en'" to the element would, I guess, cause
"HTML" to be spelled out in English. I tried using <abbr title="..."
lang="en"><span lang="de" class="initialism">HTML</span></abbr> to
force the "HTML" to be spelled out in German, but then Opera 7 refused
to display the title-tool- tip...
Has anyone else run into this issue?
Thanks
Lars 3  4260  sv******@dbf.ddb.de (Lars G. Svensson) wrote: Currently, I'm marking up a few pages in German, containing quite
some English abbreviations. The abbreviations are marked up as
<abbr> with the appropriate title attribute,
Why? Although <abbr> is logical in a sense, it has little support (and
clumsy support) in browsers. For example, IE 6 completely ignores it.
It can even cause some confusion, e.g. dotted line below the
abbreviation (which _might_ act as a clue on screen, but what about
printed copies?). For a discussion of <abbr>, see
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/abbr.html
and -- when
appropriate -- I add a "class='initialism'" to tell speach browers
to spell it out rather than to read it as one word
The attribute per se does not tell anything. If you intend to use it in
conjunction with a style sheet rule that suggests reading mode, stay
tuned to waiting for some years before browsers start supporting it.
Now, the point is, that I want the content of the _element_ (i.e.
"HTML") to be spelled out in German (as defined in <html
lang="de">, but the content of the title-attribute to be spoken in
English. Adding the attribute "lang='en'" to the element would, I
guess, cause "HTML" to be spelled out in English.
Well, in practice it hardly has an effect on how it is read, but in
principle, you're right: the lang attribute specifies the language of
the content _and_ all attributes of an element.
I tried using
<abbr title="..." lang="en"><span lang="de"
class="initialism">HTML</span></abbr> to force the "HTML" to be
spelled out in German,
Using extra markup seems to be the only way if you have an element and
its attributes that are in different languages. By the way, in
principle you are also saying that "initialism" is in German. :-)
Personally, I try to use - as an investment for the future*) - lang
attributes for documents as a whole and for major portions, like
quotations and titles of references works, but usually not for
individual names or things like that. It's just too much trouble,
especially in cases like yours.
*) Though I don't expect very much, and I know that lang is being
phased out in favor of xml:lang.
but then Opera 7 refused to display the
title-tool- tip...
That's odd, but it seems to be part of Opera 7's somewhat strange
implementation of tooltips (which is, on the other hand, very good in
general - it now doesn't mask out showing the URL as it used to, and
the tooltip box has a "Title: " prefix as a clue of what the browser is
showing). Consider this:
<span title="outer">foo <span title="inner">bar</span>
<span>zap</span></span>
When you mouse over the words, you get the titles that we would expect
except for the last one - for it, no tooltip appears. It seems that
Opera 7 shows the title of the innermost element, failing to show
anything if that element has no title attribute. (Luckily it has
special treatment for links, so that <a href="..." title="...">
<cite>...</cite></a> has its title shown.)
Has anyone else run into this issue?
Yep, but in theory only. It's really theoretical at present. The lang
attribute is very poorly supported. IBM Home Page Reader makes some use
of it, but browsers generally ignore it or use it incorrectly to make
guesses on _character repertoires_ (though this is not relevant when
all languages involved are written in Latin letters).
--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
> sv******@dbf.ddb.de (Lars G. Svensson) wrote: Currently, I'm marking up a few pages in German, containing quite
some English abbreviations. The abbreviations are marked up as
<abbr> with the appropriate title attribute,
Why? Although <abbr> is logical in a sense, it has little support (and
clumsy support) in browsers. For example, IE 6 completely ignores it.
It can even cause some confusion, e.g. dotted line below the
abbreviation (which _might_ act as a clue on screen, but what about
printed copies?). For a discussion of <abbr>, see
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/abbr.html
and -- when
appropriate -- I add a "class='initialism'" to tell speach browers
to spell it out rather than to read it as one word
The attribute per se does not tell anything.
True, usage for it has come from my abbr vs acronym article which clearly
states the required CSS to make it "work". The class on its own has no
semantic or presentational meaning, it only affects aural presentation when
referenced in an associated style sheet, for example the follwing CSS
fragment.
abbr.initialism {speak : spell-out;}
If you intend to use it
in conjunction with a style sheet rule that suggests reading mode,
stay tuned to waiting for some years before browsers start supporting
it.
W3 and Emacspeak are not far of supporting it and also support many other
aural properties. For further reference:
Emacs W3s aural CSS support http://www.cs.indiana.edu/elisp/w3/d..._55.html#SEC55
Emacspeak project http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/
--
BenM http://www.benemadowcroft.com/
>> sv******@dbf.ddb.de (Lars G. Svensson) wrote: Currently, I'm marking up a few pages in German, containing quite
some English abbreviations. The abbreviations are marked up as
<abbr> with the appropriate title attribute,
Why? Although <abbr> is logical in a sense, it has little support
(and clumsy support) in browsers. For example, IE 6 completely
ignores it.
It can even cause some confusion, e.g. dotted line below the
abbreviation (which _might_ act as a clue on screen, but what about
printed copies?). For a discussion of <abbr>, see
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/abbr.html
and -- when
appropriate -- I add a "class='initialism'" to tell speach browers
to spell it out rather than to read it as one word
The attribute per se does not tell anything.
True, usage for it has come from my abbr vs acronym article which
clearly states the required CSS to make it "work". The class on its
own has no semantic or presentational meaning, it only affects aural
presentation when referenced in an associated style sheet, for
example the follwing CSS fragment.
abbr.initialism {speak : spell-out;}
If you intend to use it
in conjunction with a style sheet rule that suggests reading mode,
stay tuned to waiting for some years before browsers start supporting
it.
W3 and Emacspeak are not far of supporting it and also support many
other aural properties. For further reference:
Emacs W3s aural CSS support
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/elisp/w3/d..._55.html#SEC55
Emacspeak project
http://emacspeak.sourceforge.net/
I'll also announce that I'm beginning work on a .Net based aural browser
with support for aural CSS, probably targeting the CSS 3 specification when
it gets released, although for the moment looking at CSS2 aural properties.
In fact the ".Net speech SDK V1.0 Beta 2" came through the post the other
day, http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/me/arc...html#link6th_1
however I wouldn't hold my breath for it as I am only at the design stage at
the moment and it may not get of the ground depending on the complexity,
which my initial investigations indicate seem to be quite high! (especially
with tables and the associations of <th>'s to <td>'s throwing in abbr
attributes, scopes, headers and id's, and then layering CSS on top of that!)
I should also mention that Microsoft is adding SALT support to IE, http://www.saltforum.org/ http://www.microsoft.com/speech/evaluation/speechtags/
so although the pace of "innovation" in some areas of IE is slowing, it is
still being worked on. There is also a webcast on Microsofts TTS engine if
anyone here is interested, http://www.microsoft.com/usa/webcasts/upcoming/2059.asp (or are you all
linux heads?)
--
BenM http://www.benmeadowcroft.com/ This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
by: mitch gart |
last post by:
Is it possible to insert newlines, or some other character,
into <title> or <alt> to get the effect of a tooltip,
where the page author controls the line breaks?
If yes, could somebody send an...
|
by: Matt Adams |
last post by:
I want define for a couple of words inside a longer text with different font specifications.
I declared it like:
....text before....
<FONT class=aaa> these text should get other attributes...
|
by: Robert Bowen |
last post by:
Hello peeplez. I have an odd problem. When I put the ANSI symbol for
"less than" ("<"), the word STRONG and then the ANSI symbol for
"greater than" (">") in my web page, followed by some text, then...
|
by: Derek Fountain |
last post by:
I have a horizontal navigation bar, which is a single row table containing
the right images. It "stretches" itself across the screen using a
penultimate td like this:
<td width="100%"...
|
by: Jim Moe |
last post by:
Hello,
I have been using <q> instead of " for quoting recently.
Fortunately not much has been changed since it seems IE does not know what
to do with <q>! IE ignores it rather than rendering...
|
by: five of nothing |
last post by:
Hi, I'm working on a page and my HTML validator whines when I try to
put a <div></div> or a <table></table> inside of an <a></a> tag. What
are the rules as far as what can go in there?
|
by: cms-hispano.org |
last post by:
i'm building a site about extreme accessibility, i.e.: how (and why)
to get sites to become fully accessible, *beyond* W3C Web
Accessibility Initiative guidelines. it's far from being completed (i...
|
by: matheussousuke |
last post by:
Hello, I'm using tiny MCE plugin on my oscommerce and it is inserting my website URL when I use insert image function in the emails.
The goal is: Make it send the email with the URL...
|
by: lllomh |
last post by:
Define the method first
this.state = {
buttonBackgroundColor: 'green',
isBlinking: false, // A new status is added to identify whether the button is blinking or not
}
autoStart=()=>{
|
by: DJRhino |
last post by:
Was curious if anyone else was having this same issue or not....
I was just Up/Down graded to windows 11 and now my access combo boxes are not acting right. With win 10 I could start typing...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe meeting will be on Wednesday 4 Oct 2023 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM)
The start time is equivalent to 19:00 (7PM) in Central...
|
by: Aliciasmith |
last post by:
In an age dominated by smartphones, having a mobile app for your business is no longer an option; it's a necessity. Whether you're a startup or an established enterprise, finding the right mobile app...
|
by: NeoPa |
last post by:
Hello everyone.
I find myself stuck trying to find the VBA way to get Access to create a PDF of the currently-selected (and open) object (Form or Report).
I know it can be done by selecting :...
|
by: NeoPa |
last post by:
Introduction
For this article I'll be using a very simple database which has Form (clsForm) & Report (clsReport) classes that simply handle making the calling Form invisible until the Form, or all...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe meeting will be on Wednesday 1 Nov 2023 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM)
Please note that the UK and Europe revert to winter time on...
|
by: nia12 |
last post by:
Hi there,
I am very new to Access so apologies if any of this is obvious/not clear.
I am creating a data collection tool for health care employees to complete. It consists of a number of...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next online meeting of the Access Europe User Group will be on Wednesday 6 Dec 2023 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM).
In this month's session, Mike...
| |
