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P: n/a
What's the best set of authoring tools (if there is one...) for
building a simple Web site? Specifically, I want to produce a
"newsletter" site that contains a menu (for key dates and subjects), has
variable-sized text narratives, and contains some pictures. Not much in
the way of graphics, but some different fonts and colors might be
nice...)
I don't want a blog, nor do I intend to do any e-commerce with this
site - just have a lot of "news" content for the few people I'll point
to it.
The reason for this query is that I know of many languages that would
seem to be able to do such a job (HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP, etc.), and I've
purchased a number of books on each. However, I see from what I have a
very daunting task to pick and choose various features and learn them -
something that could well take many months to even get started on this
(personal) task. (I plan to produce a family "holiday letter" that
spans several years, as well as maintain it.) It probably should be
simple and generic, since I can't control what browsers might be used to
view it.
I have some experience with HTML, as well as a small amount of
experience with CSS. The others I only know _of_, but I believe I could
learn them if I knew what and where to to focus on... 8<}}
Any thoughts? TIA
Sep 29 '08 #1
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27 Replies


P: n/a
In article <MP************************@news.cox.net>,
mr*****@cox.net (Mike Copeland) wrote:
...Specifically, I want to produce a
"newsletter" site that contains a menu (for key dates and subjects), has
variable-sized text narratives,
"variable-sized text narratives", you a post-modernist?

and contains some pictures. Not much in
the way of graphics, but some different fonts and colors might be
nice...)
I don't want a blog, nor
What we *don't* want can come to a very long irrelevant list. <g>
The reason for this query is that I know of many languages that would
seem to be able to do such a job (HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP, etc.), and I've
purchased a number of books on each. However, I see from what I have a
very daunting task to pick and choose various features and learn them -
something that could well take many months to even get started on this
(personal) task. (I plan to produce a family "holiday letter" that
spans several years, as well as maintain it.) It probably should be
simple and generic, since I can't control what browsers might be used to
view it.
I have some experience with HTML, as well as a small amount of
experience with CSS.
If you had experience with HTMl and some with CSS, you would know that
what you want is entirely possible with just these. I suggest you go
through the tutes at

<http://htmldog.com/guides/htmlbeginner/>
The others I only know _of_, but I believe I could
learn them if I knew what and where to to focus on... 8<}}
Any thoughts?
Yes, Don't blind yourself with science yet. Read the tutes and see. If
you then have specific difficulties, come back. alt.html for general
questions, other groups if it is more html or more css depending. O and
try to supply a URL of your efforts when you do as it is often very
helpful.

(Where the hell is everyone, this whole weekend, everyone has been very
quiet on all html/css ngs? Or is my news server playing up? Has anyone
played tricks on me and reverse filtered themselves from mine eyes?)

--
dorayme
Sep 29 '08 #2

P: n/a
dorayme wrote:
In article <MP************************@news.cox.net>,
mr*****@cox.net (Mike Copeland) wrote:
>...Specifically, I want to produce a
"newsletter" site that contains a menu (for key dates and subjects), has
variable-sized text narratives,

"variable-sized text narratives", you a post-modernist?

>and contains some pictures. Not much in
the way of graphics, but some different fonts and colors might be
nice...)
I don't want a blog, nor

What we *don't* want can come to a very long irrelevant list. <g>
> The reason for this query is that I know of many languages that would
seem to be able to do such a job (HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP, etc.), and I've
purchased a number of books on each. However, I see from what I have a
very daunting task to pick and choose various features and learn them -
something that could well take many months to even get started on this
(personal) task. (I plan to produce a family "holiday letter" that
spans several years, as well as maintain it.) It probably should be
simple and generic, since I can't control what browsers might be used to
view it.
I have some experience with HTML, as well as a small amount of
experience with CSS.

If you had experience with HTMl and some with CSS, you would know that
what you want is entirely possible with just these. I suggest you go
through the tutes at

<http://htmldog.com/guides/htmlbeginner/>
>The others I only know _of_, but I believe I could
learn them if I knew what and where to to focus on... 8<}}
Any thoughts?

Yes, Don't blind yourself with science yet. Read the tutes and see. If
you then have specific difficulties, come back. alt.html for general
questions, other groups if it is more html or more css depending. O and
try to supply a URL of your efforts when you do as it is often very
helpful.

(Where the hell is everyone, this whole weekend, everyone has been very
quiet on all html/css ngs? Or is my news server playing up? Has anyone
played tricks on me and reverse filtered themselves from mine eyes?)
We knew you weren't in the best of moods, and stayed away!!!
:-)

I've been learning Wordpress. Sigh. I've learned how to make a
template. I'll show you all when it's finished.

Sep 29 '08 #3

P: n/a
In article <gb**********@registered.motzarella.org>,
pecan <pe***@NOSPAMrouxville.infowrote:
I've been learning Wordpress. Sigh. I've learned how to make a
template. I'll show you all when it's finished.
Excellent. Become expert and I will find out anything I need to know
from you.

--
dorayme
Sep 29 '08 #4

P: n/a
Mike Copeland wrote:
What's the best set of authoring tools (if there is one...) for
building a simple Web site?
A text editor.
The reason for this query is that I know of many languages that would
seem to be able to do such a job (HTML, CSS, Perl, PHP, etc.)

Whatever technology you use in the background, ultimately a web page is
HTML and CSS. If what you want to do is fairly simple, you don't need to
know any other languages. If what you want to do is fairly simple,
incorporating other technologies unnecessarily will just complicate the
process.
Sep 29 '08 #5

P: n/a
In article <Wc******************************@comcast.com>,
Scott Bryce <sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:
incorporating other technologies unnecessarily will just complicate the
process
Did you seek permission from Travis to use this? <g>

--
dorayme
Sep 29 '08 #6

P: n/a

Stefan Ram wrote:
>Pages of the same site might share common structures,
therefore, a templating system might help to reduce
redundancies. A preprocessor or a programming language
can be used as a templating system, as well as a
dedicated templating systems.
... or just use a text editor that does a search and
replace in multiple files at once.

--
Guy Macon
<http://www.GuyMacon.com/>

Sep 29 '08 #7

P: n/a
Stefan Ram wrote:
Scott Bryce <sb****@scottbryce.comwrites:
>>What's the best set of authoring tools (if there is one...) for
building a simple Web site?
A text editor.

Pages of the same site might share common structures,
therefore, a templating system might help to reduce
redundancies. A preprocessor or a programming language
can be used as a templating system, as well as a
dedicated templating systems.

1) The OP said what he wanted to do was simple.

2) When I need to build a system similar to what you described, I use a
text editor.
Sep 29 '08 #8

P: n/a
dorayme wrote:
In article <Wc******************************@comcast.com>,
Scott Bryce <sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:
>incorporating other technologies unnecessarily will just complicate the
process

Did you seek permission from Travis to use this? <g>
Did I use someone else's line?
Sep 29 '08 #9

P: n/a
Scott Bryce wrote:
>

1) The OP said what he wanted to do was simple.
People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple. I have
people saying they 'just want a simple website, something so that the
people can search their products and buy them online, maybe with Paypal
facilities.'

lol
I've also spent an inordinate amount of time converting a vertical menu
to a horizontal on because "I like the menu that site has", only to find
what he liked was the white background, not the horizontal.
Sep 29 '08 #10

P: n/a
pecan wrote:
People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple.
That is true. Perhaps the OP can describe to us just how complex his
version of simple is.

Still, I contend that the best authoring tool is a text editor. I have
built a fairly complex site with little more than that.
Sep 29 '08 #11

P: n/a
People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple.
>
That is true. Perhaps the OP can describe to us just how complex his
version of simple is.
I thought I had done just that... 8<{{
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures. I merely want to communicate with
some friends the sort of thing I/we used to write in a year-end "holiday
letter".
There's no need for Flash or fancy graphics in this, and if I could
see a few sample sites I could cannibalize the code to what I want.
Still, I contend that the best authoring tool is a text editor. I have
built a fairly complex site with little more than that.
Regardless of such an obvious "tool", I was wondering what - if any -
language or development platform I might try to learn to create and
maintain the "simple" site I plan. I see so much different stuff out
there (Perl, PHP, CSS, whatever) that I'm confused about that direction
the Web creation field has taken/is taking...and that was the basis of
my query.
Sep 29 '08 #12

P: n/a
Mike Copeland wrote:
>>People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple.
That is true. Perhaps the OP can describe to us just how complex
his version of simple is.

I thought I had done just that... 8<{{ I want to construct a
"newsletter Web site" (single column, no animation) that is built
under a one-level menu (which shows key links to chapters and/or
major events), under which is a combination of lengthy narrative and
a few pictures. I merely want to communicate with some friends the
sort of thing I/we used to write in a year-end "holiday letter".
There's no need for Flash or fancy graphics in this, and if I could
see a few sample sites I could cannibalize the code to what I want.
How often will it be updated? Are you going to archive old newsletters?
For how long?

If you are going to update it weekly and archive the old newsletters
indefinitely, a CMS system or blog system would make things easier.

If you are going to update it daily, get yourself a FaceBook account
instead.
Regardless of such an obvious "tool", I was wondering what - if any -
language or development platform I might try to learn to create and
maintain the "simple" site I plan. I see so much different stuff
out there (Perl, PHP, CSS, whatever) that I'm confused about that
direction the Web creation field has taken/is taking...and that was
the basis of my query.
A web page is, as it always has been, HTML. CSS is very helpful, and is
almost considered a necessity any more. Anything else is additional
resources available if you need to do anything complex. What you
probably want to do is learn HTML and CSS and get a good text editor.
When you are happy with the first page you build, use it as a template
for any other pages you build. If I were publishing a personal
newsletter, say, monthly, and only archiving a year's worth of
newsletters, that is what I would do. For anything more complex, I'd
probably load WordPress on my site and use it to manage the archives.
Sep 29 '08 #13

P: n/a

Mike Copeland wrote:
>
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures.
What's wrong with using a blog or a CMS like Joomla? You can disable
bloggy things like user comments if that's what you're concerned about.

--
Berg
Sep 29 '08 #14

P: n/a

pecan wrote:
>
People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple.
Aye. Reminds me of a former co-worker who always had a "quick" question.
The question may have been quick, but the answer was usually long and
complicated. ;)

--
Berg
Sep 29 '08 #15

P: n/a

pecan wrote:
>
I've been learning Wordpress. Sigh. I've learned how to make a
template.
WordPress templates are pretty easy. It's not hard to add the blog to an
existing site, either, or customize a WordPress template to match the
rest of the site. It's something more and more clients are asking for,
so you're using your time wisely, I think.

--
Berg
Sep 29 '08 #16

P: n/a
In article <FK******************************@comcast.com>,
Scott Bryce <sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:
dorayme wrote:
In article <Wc******************************@comcast.com>,
Scott Bryce <sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:
incorporating other technologies unnecessarily will just complicate the
process
Did you seek permission from Travis to use this? <g>

Did I use someone else's line?
Not as such, no. But Travis has rather come to own the general method of
saying things that can't possibly be false. <g>

--
dorayme
Sep 29 '08 #17

P: n/a

Stefan Ram wrote:
>
Guy Macon <http://www.GuyMacon.com/writes:
>>.. or just use a text editor that does a search and
replace in multiple files at once.

Assume the following template (here in the C preprocessor)

#define t(x) <a href="x">x</a>

. Later, one might want to change this template to:

#define t(x) <a class="t0" href="x">x</a>

This can not be done with search-and-replace in a text editor,
because a search-and-replace operation might also replace
other a-elements, too, i.e., a-elements which are not intended
to convey the meaning of the template t. (Unless, one
carefully inspects and confirms every replace-operation.)

Even without this problem, it still will not be easy for
everyone to write a search-and-replace command in his text
editor to implement something like Perl's

$text =~ s{<a href="(.*?)">(.*?)</a>}{<a class="t0" href="$0">$1</a>}g;

accross multiple files.
I realize that a simple search and replace cannot do what a Regex
does -- I use the Regular Expression search and replace in UltraEdit
on a regular basis -- I contend that for the specific task that
you describe...

"Pages of the same site might share common structures,
therefore, a templating system might help to reduce
redundancies. A preprocessor or a programming language
can be used as a templating system, as well as a
dedicated templating systems."

....a text editor that does a search and replace in multiple
files will suffice. Remember the OP's concern was stated as:

"I see from what I have a very daunting task to pick and
choose various features and learn them - something that
could well take many months to even get started on this
(personal) task."

Given that concern, something along the lines of Perl or the
C++ preprocessor seems to me to be overkill. But you are
right that such tools can do far more than any text editor
this side of Emacs can possibly do.

Just my opinion, of course. See subject line.


--
Guy Macon
<http://www.GuyMacon.com/>

Sep 29 '08 #18

P: n/a
I thought I had done just that... 8<{{ I want to construct a
"newsletter Web site" (single column, no animation) that is built
under a one-level menu (which shows key links to chapters and/or
major events), under which is a combination of lengthy narrative and
a few pictures. I merely want to communicate with some friends the
sort of thing I/we used to write in a year-end "holiday letter".
There's no need for Flash or fancy graphics in this, and if I could
see a few sample sites I could cannibalize the code to what I want.

How often will it be updated? Are you going to archive old newsletters?
For how long?
Yearly, for the most part (my life isn't very exciting...).
>
If you are going to update it weekly and archive the old newsletters
indefinitely, a CMS system or blog system would make things easier.
Not an issue here at all.
>
If you are going to update it daily, get yourself a FaceBook account
instead.
I really don't want such a thing (also why I don't want a blog),
because the intended audience is a select group of friends and
relatives, not the general public.
A web page is, as it always has been, HTML. CSS is very helpful, and is
almost considered a necessity any more. Anything else is additional
resources available if you need to do anything complex. What you
probably want to do is learn HTML and CSS and get a good text editor.
When you are happy with the first page you build, use it as a template
for any other pages you build. If I were publishing a personal
newsletter, say, monthly, and only archiving a year's worth of
newsletters, that is what I would do. For anything more complex, I'd
probably load WordPress on my site and use it to manage the archives.
The consensus seems to be what you suggest here, especially since I'm
not doing any database or file work (e.g. Perl). The content will be
quite static and will only grow a bit each year.
Thanks for your input.
Sep 30 '08 #19

P: n/a
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures.

What's wrong with using a blog or a CMS like Joomla? You can disable
bloggy things like user comments if that's what you're concerned about.
Well, I don't know what Joomla is, for starters. I googled it, and
there's a lot of information about downloading/installing it, and there
are links to hosting sites, but I don't understand the concepts
involved.
1. Are you supposed to acquire a domain and host before using Joomla?
2. Is there a Windows-based development environment (IDE, perhaps
HTML-Kit) that supports it - and if so, how does it work?
3. Does the Windows environment support some sort of FTP for what's
developed? What exactly _is_ developed, HTML/CSS, or what?
4. From where does one do the Joomla "development"?
As you see, I can't quite find out what Joomla is...and how it
compares to a more simplistic text editor/ftp production. Please
advise. TIA
Sep 30 '08 #20

P: n/a
In article <MP************************@news.cox.net>,
mr*****@cox.net (Mike Copeland) wrote:
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures.
What's wrong with using a blog or a CMS like Joomla? You can disable
bloggy things like user comments if that's what you're concerned about.

Well, I don't know what Joomla is, for starters. I googled it, and
there's a lot of information about downloading/installing it, and there
are links to hosting sites, but I don't understand the concepts
involved.
As I said at the beginning of this thread: Don't blind yourself with
science yet. Read how to do straightforward HTML and CSS. Don't even
look at Joomla till you have mastered the basics. In these threads,
subscribers will quite helplessly try to plunge into every kind of
complication (what would they talk about otherwise, simple things are
really boring to many earthling types).

--
dorayme
Sep 30 '08 #21

P: n/a

Mike Copeland wrote:
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures.

What's wrong with using a blog or a CMS like Joomla?

Well, I don't know what Joomla is, for starters. I googled it, and
there's a lot of information about downloading/installing it, and there
are links to hosting sites, but I don't understand the concepts
involved.
It's a Content Management System (CMS), the particular "brand" name is
irrelevant. Joomla is just one of many.
4. From where does one do the Joomla "development"?
Like a blog, you don't do development in the CMS itself - it manages the
site for you. All you have to do is manage your content. The CMS
administration takes care of organizing your navigation menu and the like.

--
Berg
Sep 30 '08 #22

P: n/a
Mike Copeland wrote:
>>People's ideas of what's simple are not necessarily simple.
That is true. Perhaps the OP can describe to us just how complex his
version of simple is.

I thought I had done just that... 8<{{
I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures. I merely want to communicate with
some friends the sort of thing I/we used to write in a year-end "holiday
letter".
There's no need for Flash or fancy graphics in this, and if I could
see a few sample sites I could cannibalize the code to what I want.
>Still, I contend that the best authoring tool is a text editor. I have
built a fairly complex site with little more than that.

Regardless of such an obvious "tool", I was wondering what - if any -
language or development platform I might try to learn to create and
maintain the "simple" site I plan. I see so much different stuff out
there (Perl, PHP, CSS, whatever) that I'm confused about that direction
the Web creation field has taken/is taking...and that was the basis of
my query.
Sounds to me as if you're looking for a blog. Just calling it a
website. (No offence intended) Since I'm busy creating a blog theme
right now, I'm finding it anything but simple, as there's a lot of
hidden code in the background, not like a plain simple html-css site
without any interaction.
Sep 30 '08 #23

P: n/a
Mike Copeland wrote:
>> I want to construct a "newsletter Web site" (single column, no
animation) that is built under a one-level menu (which shows key links
to chapters and/or major events), under which is a combination of
lengthy narrative and a few pictures.
What's wrong with using a blog or a CMS like Joomla? You can disable
bloggy things like user comments if that's what you're concerned about.

Well, I don't know what Joomla is, for starters. I googled it, and
there's a lot of information about downloading/installing it, and there
are links to hosting sites, but I don't understand the concepts
involved.
1. Are you supposed to acquire a domain and host before using Joomla?
2. Is there a Windows-based development environment (IDE, perhaps
HTML-Kit) that supports it - and if so, how does it work?
3. Does the Windows environment support some sort of FTP for what's
developed? What exactly _is_ developed, HTML/CSS, or what?
4. From where does one do the Joomla "development"?
As you see, I can't quite find out what Joomla is...and how it
compares to a more simplistic text editor/ftp production. Please
advise. TIA
Q: Do you have a domain name, free hosting service... any of those? If
the answer is no, then you should go to blogit.com, or one of those,
which will allow you to host on their space. This will cost you nothing.

All websites are open to the public in one way or another, and blogs can
be made as private as any other, simply by not having links and
advertising and various other marketing items.

Once you've slelected an existing theme and created your first blog
(which can be deleted at any time) then you can start redesigning the
pages, to make it LOOK the way you want.

This is probably the simplest thing fr you to do.
Sep 30 '08 #24

P: n/a
pecan wrote:
Sounds to me as if you're looking for a blog.
He says that he is only going to post one page that will be updated
annually. A blog is overkill.
Sep 30 '08 #25

P: n/a

Scott Bryce wrote:
pecan wrote:
>Sounds to me as if you're looking for a blog.

He says that he is only going to post one page that will be updated
annually. A blog is overkill.
I missed the part about annual updates. You are right, a blog (or CMS)
is overkill. Plain old HTML, CSS, and a plain text editor is all he
needs for that.

From his other posts, it sounds like he's making it a lot more
complicated than it needs to be.

--
Berg
Sep 30 '08 #26

P: n/a
CJM


"dorayme" <do************@optusnet.com.auwrote in message
news:do**********************************@web.aioe .org...
>
Not as such, no. But Travis has rather come to own the general method of
saying things that can't possibly be false. <g>
A tautology.

Oct 3 '08 #27

P: n/a
CJM
Previous posters have largely answered you question, but I'd say that there
are a number of simple IDEs that you might want to download (for free).

HTML-Kit (featuring HTML Tidy) is powerful but simple to use. I use Visual
Studio (but then again I'm using ASP.NET) and there is a free version of
that (Visual Web Developer). Or perhaps a souped-up text editor like
Notepad++.

There are numerous other ones (NVU, etc) that might catch your eye. The key
point is that even though your site is simple, you can do better than
vanilla notepad. Most of these tools have features like code highlighting
and perhaps built-in validation tools.

I'd also look at the web developer plug-ins for both FF & IE, and perhaps
there are variants for other browsers; they can be useful when you are
trying to figure out why you are not achieving the desired effect.

CJM

Oct 3 '08 #28

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