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How to set default font size to small for a page's body?

P: n/a

I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
Jun 27 '08 #1
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58 Replies


P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
?? Setting the font size in the document doesn't change the IE
*setting*, it changes the sizes of the fonts *relative* to that setting
(assuming you're using relative units like % or em).

Anyway, why are you trying to set the primary font of your page to a
size that's smaller than the user finds convenient to read?
Jun 27 '08 #2

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 10:44*am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.netwrote:
Don Li wrote:
I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. *In IE7 it shows up as Medium. *What did I do wrong?
Thanks.

?? Setting the font size in the document doesn't change the IE
*setting*, it changes the sizes of the fonts *relative* to that setting
(assuming you're using relative units like % or em).

Anyway, why are you trying to set the primary font of your page to a
size that's smaller than the user finds convenient to read?
Would like to get key points of WHAT, For WHOM, WHY and HOW across on
one screen (about 80% of a full screen) without scrolling.
Jun 27 '08 #3

P: n/a
In article
<8f**********************************@u69g2000hse. googlegroups.com>,
Don Li <ta********@gmail.comwrote:
I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?
Perhaps you forgot to change the default font sizes in your
browser, so that your "small" text doesn't look the way you
expect? Or perhaps you are running into issues where your CSS
is trying to make the text smaller than the minimum font size
set in your browser?

See elsewhere in this group for information about why you shouldn't
set the body font-size to anything other than 100% (i.e. the user's
preferred font size), and especially about problems with Verdana
relative to other fonts.
Jun 27 '08 #4

P: n/a
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
What did I do wrong?
You tried to mess with the reader's preferred font size for BODY.
Don't do that! Do not specify a font size for BODY.

--
In memoriam Alan J. Flavell
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...Alan.J.Flavell
Jun 27 '08 #5

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
I've tried
Please read this:
http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
.. What did I do wrong?
You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.

I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
Jun 27 '08 #6

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
Would like to get key points of WHAT, For WHOM, WHY and HOW across on
one screen (about 80% of a full screen) without scrolling.
Whose screen? You will have no idea what your visitor's screen size will
be. They could be using one of the iPhones! Also screen size != browser
window size, not *everyone* runs a browser maximized. I rarely do. Time
to rethink your design.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #7

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 11:15*am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
Don Li wrote:
I've tried

Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
.. What did I do wrong?

You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.

I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.

--
* *-bts
* *-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
People. Please consider the following factors:
a) the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser and I don't intend to provide instruction on
that (once again, they are not you, not tech savvy);
b) the 'small' font size looks good (not the default 100% size) for
the home page (feedback from beta users).

Thanks.
Jun 27 '08 #8

P: n/a
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser
Those who also don't know how to adjust the rear-view mirror?

--
In memoriam Alan J. Flavell
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...Alan.J.Flavell
Jun 27 '08 #9

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 10:44 am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.netwrote:
>Don Li wrote:
>>I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?
Thanks.
?? Setting the font size in the document doesn't change the IE
*setting*, it changes the sizes of the fonts *relative* to that setting
(assuming you're using relative units like % or em).

Anyway, why are you trying to set the primary font of your page to a
size that's smaller than the user finds convenient to read?

Would like to get key points of WHAT, For WHOM, WHY and HOW across on
one screen (about 80% of a full screen) without scrolling.
Why? (Honestly, I'm often baffled by the criteria people trying to set
up a web page invent for themselves, especially when they produce
undesirable results, such as here where the result will be that people
find the page less comfortable to read.) How do you know how large any
given user's screen is? What makes you think they have their browser
opened to the full size of their screen anyway? I have a large,
high-resolution screen, and it would normally be ridiculous for me to
maximize my browser--I have no need for a document to be that wide. Yet
these days there are web designers who seem to think they need to have
800-pixel-wide graphics and six columns of text across the page, so that
I either have to scroll to the right (which, unlike scrolling down,
isn't part of the normal web experience) or expand my browser against my
preferences, so that I can only see the browser and can't see anything
else I have on my desktop.
Jun 27 '08 #10

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:15 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
>Don Li wrote:
>>I've tried
Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
>>.. What did I do wrong?
You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.

I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

People. Please consider the following factors:
a) the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser and I don't intend to provide instruction on
that (once again, they are not you, not tech savvy);
Your reasoning is backwards. If you think your users will be unable to
change the size of their text, then that's exactly why you *shouldn't*
make it too small for some of them to read. Some people *need* the type
to be at least normal size. Nobody needs it *smaller*.
b) the 'small' font size looks good (not the default 100% size) for
the home page (feedback from beta users).
On your screen in your browser when you have it set to display type at a
Medium setting and you have the quality of eyesight that you are
fortunate enough to have--and may not still have 10 or 20 years from now.
Jun 27 '08 #11

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 11:51*am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.netwrote:
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:15 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
Don Li wrote:
I've tried
Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
>.. What did I do wrong?
You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.
I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.
--
* *-bts
* *-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
People. * Please consider the following factors:
a) the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser and I don't intend to provide instruction on
that (once again, they are not you, not tech savvy);
Your reasoning is backwards. If you think your users will be unable to
change the size of their text, then that's exactly why you *shouldn't*
make it too small for some of them to read. Some people *need* the type
to be at least normal size. Nobody needs it *smaller*.
You're confused with my follow-up note, "not likely to know to how to
change font size" is not equal to "will be unable to
change the size of their text".

Just answer the question if you are able to, like yes, one can set a
default font size to this or that for a page, here's how, no, you
can't.
Jun 27 '08 #12

P: n/a
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
Just answer the question if you are able to
Welcome to Usenet!

You post something, we discuss its implications. If the discussion
happens to answer a question you've asked, that's incidental.

--
Solipsists of the world - unite!
Jun 27 '08 #13

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
Just answer the question if you are able to, like yes, one can set a
default font size to this or that for a page, here's how, no, you
can't.
Just answer the question, are you making this page for you or for the
people who will view it? If for the latter then don't fool with my
default font size, it is a pain to have to keep adjusting my found as I
go from page to page. End result is "I", and many others, just won't
come back which is never a good marketing strategy.
--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #14

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
You're confused with my follow-up note, "not likely to know to how to
change font size" is not equal to "will be unable to change the size
of their text".
Whether or not your visitors know how to change the font size in their
browsers is no reason for you to penalize those who don't.

Think flexible. The Web is not paper. And we do not have your eyes.
Just answer the question if you are able to, like yes, one can set a
default font size to this or that for a page, here's how, no, you
can't.
Sure you can. Set it for 100%.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
Jun 27 '08 #15

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 12:42*pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
Don Li wrote:
You're confused with my follow-up note, "not likely to know to how to
change font size" is not equal to "will be unable to change the size
of their text".

Whether or not your visitors know how to change the font size in their
browsers is no reason for you to penalize those who don't.

Think flexible. The Web is not paper. And we do not have your eyes.
Just answer the question if you are able to, like yes, one can set a
default font size to this or that for a page, here's how, no, you
can't.

Sure you can. Set it for 100%.
Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
Jun 27 '08 #16

P: n/a
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
>Set it for 100%.

Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
80% is small-print - appropriate when you want to deceive people
and hide important information in your contracts.

Are you a lawyer?

--
I used to believe in reincarnation in a former life.
Jun 27 '08 #17

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 12:53*pm, Andreas Prilop <prilop2...@trashmail.netwrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
Set it for 100%.
Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?

80% is small-print - appropriate when you want to deceive people
and hide important information in your contracts.

Are you a lawyer?

--
I used to believe in reincarnation in a former life.
Good :) Problem resolved. Just don't know why it got many so
worked up.
Jun 27 '08 #18

P: n/a
Harlan Messinger wrote:
Don Li wrote:
><body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">

why are you trying to set the primary font of your page to a
size that's smaller than the user finds convenient to read?
Probably because it's Verdana.

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #19

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:15 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
>>
Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php

People. Please consider the following factors:
Gee, do you think you're the first person ever to come up against this?
The subject of font sizes and Verdana has been discussed a nauseating
number of times.

Whatever excuses you come up with that rationalize your decision to use
Verdana at a reduced size for body text ain't gonna fly here.

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #20

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:53 pm, Andreas Prilop <prilop2...@trashmail.netwrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
>>>Set it for 100%.
Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
80% is small-print - appropriate when you want to deceive people
and hide important information in your contracts.

Are you a lawyer?
>I used to believe in reincarnation in a former life.

Good :) Problem resolved. Just don't know why it got many so
worked up.
We hoped, (unsuccessfully is this case) to stop the perpetuation of
poorly design, inflexible, unaccessible websites that currently pollute
the web. The attitudes expressed here underscore the frustration some of
your visitors will experience when they wish to visit your site but just
cannot read the damn text...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #21

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:51 am, Harlan Messinger
<hmessinger.removet...@comcast.netwrote:
>Don Li wrote:
>>On Apr 16, 11:15 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
Don Li wrote:
I've tried
Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
.. What did I do wrong?
You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.
I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.
--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
People. Please consider the following factors:
a) the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser and I don't intend to provide instruction on
that (once again, they are not you, not tech savvy);
>Your reasoning is backwards. If you think your users will be unable to
change the size of their text, then that's exactly why you *shouldn't*
make it too small for some of them to read. Some people *need* the type
to be at least normal size. Nobody needs it *smaller*.

You're confused with my follow-up note, "not likely to know to how to
change font size" is not equal to "will be unable to
change the size of their text".
What do you think the text consists of besides characters in a font
whose size is determined by the font size?
Jun 27 '08 #22

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:42 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
>Don Li wrote:
>>You're confused with my follow-up note, "not likely to know to how to
change font size" is not equal to "will be unable to change the size
of their text".
Whether or not your visitors know how to change the font size in their
browsers is no reason for you to penalize those who don't.

Think flexible. The Web is not paper. And we do not have your eyes.
>>Just answer the question if you are able to, like yes, one can set a
default font size to this or that for a page, here's how, no, you
can't.
Sure you can. Set it for 100%.

Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
Originally by "not working" you explained that you meant that the IE
setting remained Medium, and I already told you that of course the
setting will remain Medium, that's not what setting the font size in CSS
does. So if that's still what you mean by "not working" then the answer
is still, "That's not what it's *supposed* to do."
Jun 27 '08 #23

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 1:40*pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4...@central.netwrote:
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:53 pm, Andreas Prilop <prilop2...@trashmail.netwrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
Set it for 100%.
Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
80% is small-print - appropriate when you want to deceive people
and hide important information in your contracts.
Are you a lawyer?
I used to believe in reincarnation in a former life.
Good :) * Problem resolved. * Just don't know why it got many so
worked up.

We hoped, (unsuccessfully is this case) to stop the perpetuation of
poorly design, inflexible, unaccessible websites that currently pollute
the web. The attitudes expressed here underscore the frustration some of
your visitors will experience when they wish to visit your site but just
cannot read the damn text...

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
This is really a catch-22 situation. On one hand, if the home page
(starting page) using a smaller font size, subsequent pages do not
look good while leaving the default font size to 100% does not make
the starting page look good.

Jun 27 '08 #24

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
This is really a catch-22 situation. On one hand, if the home page
(starting page) using a smaller font size, subsequent pages do not
look good while leaving the default font size to 100% does not make
the starting page look good.
No. Use default font size of 100% on all pages, there is no Catch-22.

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #25

P: n/a
In article
<39**********************************@a22g2000hsc. googlegroups.com>,
Don Li <ta********@gmail.comwrote:
On Apr 16, 1:40*pm, "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4...@central.netwrote:
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 12:53 pm, Andreas Prilop <prilop2...@trashmail.netwrote:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Don Li wrote:
>>>Set it for 100%.
>>Why setting it to 85% or 80% is not working for IE7?
>80% is small-print - appropriate when you want to deceive people
>and hide important information in your contracts.
[snip]
>
This is really a catch-22 situation. On one hand, if the home page
(starting page) using a smaller font size, subsequent pages do not
look good while leaving the default font size to 100% does not make
the starting page look good.
So reconsider your content and design goals for the starting page.

You mentioned elsewhere that the content you wanted on this start
page "wouldn't fit" unless you reduced the text size, at least as
far as the monitor size/resolution/window size/browser defaults
you personally use to view your own work.

If those settings can be considered as being "typical" (whatever
that means and however you would determine that), then the only
way to achieve your goals without different size fonts on the
starting vs. subsequent pages is to either (1) accept some horizontal
scrolling or (2) reduce the actual content somehow.

I've had to deal with the same problem. You're right, in that
there is something about having all the relevant information
clearly visible at once without having to scroll; but that only
works if it's legible!
Jun 27 '08 #26

P: n/a
On 4/16/2008 6:58 AM, Don Li wrote:
I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
Whatever you do, I will use my Font- and Font+ buttons to set the size
to something I can read, thus undoing whatever you have done to set the
size of your body font.

As others have indicated, you should leave the body of your page at the
font size each user has already set in his or her browser preferences.
Then set titles, footnotes, and other non-body text at sizes larger or
smaller relative to the body font.

--
David Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Have you been using Netscape and now feel abandoned by AOL?
Then use SeaMonkey. Go to <http://www.seamonkey-project.org/>.
Jun 27 '08 #27

P: n/a
David E. Ross <no****@nowhere.notwrote:
Whatever you do, I will use my Font- and Font+ buttons to set the size
to something I can read, thus undoing whatever you have done to set the
size of your body font.
Others of us simply configure our browsers to enforce a minimum font size,
and/or add

html, body { font-size: 100% !important }

to a user style sheet.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?
Jun 27 '08 #28

P: n/a
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Darin McGrew wrote:
and/or add

html, body { font-size: 100% !important }

to a user style sheet.
I have that setting, too, and it reveals how broken Wikipedia's
styles are. I don't want to inspect their stylesheets in detail
but it seems they have first set the BODY size to something small
and then the P size to something larger.

Wikipedia looks really stupid in this way. They don't understand
how to set up a decent stylesheet.

--
Bugs in Internet Explorer 7
http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/ie7-bugs
Jun 27 '08 #29

P: n/a
Andreas Prilop wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Darin McGrew wrote:
>and/or add

html, body { font-size: 100% !important }

to a user style sheet.

I have that setting, too, and it reveals how broken Wikipedia's
styles are. I don't want to inspect their stylesheets in detail
but it seems they have first set the BODY size to something small
and then the P size to something larger.

Wikipedia looks really stupid in this way. They don't understand
how to set up a decent stylesheet.
Look at this one too, 'nough said!

http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css
--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #30

P: n/a
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Look at this one too, 'nough said!

http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css
I can top that in ... one note? :-)

http://my.att.net/

There is no CSS file; all ~600 lines ar embedded in every page.

--
-bts
-that's the new "home page" of my soon-to-be-ex ISP
Jun 27 '08 #31

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>Look at this one too, 'nough said!

http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css

I can top that in ... one note? :-)

http://my.att.net/

There is no CSS file; all ~600 lines ar embedded in every page.
Morons. Wonder what they paid for the piece of work...

Love how it scales when you bump the font up just once!

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #32

P: n/a
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>Look at this one too, 'nough said!

http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css

I can top that in ... one note? :-)

http://my.att.net/

There is no CSS file; all ~600 lines ar embedded in every page.

Morons. Wonder what they paid for the piece of work...
Minimum wage. It's all done in-house at BellSouth/SBC (the new parent of
the "new at&t").
Love how it scales when you bump the font up just once!
The whole site is terrible. When AT&T Worldnet was still in charge, that
team of developers would listen to us subscribers and actually implement
changes from good advice. They turned it over to "corporate" in October
and the whole mess has gone downhill fast. I can't show you the new
large, animated Flash ads right in the middle of your Webmail Inbox.

--
-bts
-a soon-to-be-ex-Day-One Worldnet subscriber
Jun 27 '08 #33

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
The whole site is terrible. When AT&T Worldnet was still in charge, that
team of developers would listen to us subscribers and actually implement
changes from good advice. They turned it over to "corporate" in October
and the whole mess has gone downhill fast. I can't show you the new
large, animated Flash ads right in the middle of your Webmail Inbox.
"-a soon-to-be-ex-Day-One Worldnet subscriber"

Use to be a Worldnet-er back in the mid 90's... it was long distance
$.35/minute call. Them were the days of dash browsing after 11:00pm when
rate was only $.11, dump downloads of email and clicking Netscape's
handy "offline" icon... Great advancement today...no broadband but at
least not a toll call. :-\
--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #34

P: n/a
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css

I can top that in ... one note? :-)

http://my.att.net/

There is no CSS file; all ~600 lines ar embedded in every page.
un-freakin'-believable

Calling them morons was being kind, I think

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #35

P: n/a
On 2008-04-16, Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:15*am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
>Don Li wrote:
I've tried

Please read this:http://tekrider.net/html/fontsize.php
.. What did I do wrong?

You decided to pick a size which would make many visitors (including me)
squint at the monitor. If 100% is too large for your own taste, decrease
your own browser's default size. But leave it adequate for me.

I expect your post was just a test. Normally you would move the styling
to your CSS style sheet.

People. Please consider the following factors:
a) the majority of my users are likely not knowing how to set font
size with their browser and I don't intend to provide instruction on
that (once again, they are not you, not tech savvy);
b) the 'small' font size looks good (not the default 100% size) for
the home page (feedback from beta users).
Then you need a wider selection of beta users.

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
Jun 27 '08 #36

P: n/a
Bergamot wrote:
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>Jonathan N. Little wrote:
>>http://i2.microsoft.com/shared/core/1/css/core.css

I can top that in ... one note? :-)

http://my.att.net/

There is no CSS file; all ~600 lines ar embedded in every page.

un-freakin'-believable

Calling them morons was being kind, I think
That's a good example for those who argue, "But X's page must be done
right -- it's a biiiig company!" :)
--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Jun 27 '08 #37

P: n/a
In article <Pi*******************************@s5b004.rrzn.u ni-hannover.de>, Andreas Prilop writes:
>On Wed, 16 Apr 2008, Darin McGrew wrote:
> html, body { font-size: 100% !important }

to a user style sheet.

I have that setting, too, and it reveals how broken Wikipedia's
styles are.
I used to have it, but I dropped it so that I could read Wikipedia.
>but it seems they have first set the BODY size to something small
and then the P size to something larger.
I was wondering what it was.

--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made from meat?

Jun 27 '08 #38

P: n/a
Andreas Prilop wrote:
>
how broken Wikipedia's
styles are. I don't want to inspect their stylesheets in detail
but it seems they have first set the BODY size to something small
and then the P size to something larger.
That same practice, and how stupid it is, has been discussed over in
ciwas over the last week or so. Seems to be a rash of posts using this
font sizing method lately. It's A Very Bad Thing. :(

The funny thing about wikipedia's styles, though, is that body text
coincidently ends up at just about 100% when my browser's minimum font
size (17px) is enforced.

body {
font: x-small sans-serif; (17px minimum overrides)
}
/* scale back up to a sane default */ (sane is subjective, I guess)
#globalWrapper {
font-size: 127%; (of 17px = 21.59px)
}

Then subsequent rules put the font-size of many other elements at about
94% (of 21.59). That's 20.29px. My default is 20px, so I don't even
notice their ridiculous styles. :)
Wikipedia looks really stupid in this way. They don't understand
how to set up a decent stylesheet.
Unfortunately, they are not alone. :(

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #39

P: n/a
On Apr 16, 9:58*am, Don Li <tatata9...@gmail.comwrote:
I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. *In IE7 it shows up as Medium. *What did I do wrong?

Thanks.
I'd like to end the 'religious war' by summing it up for the benefit
of future inquirers.
Possible solutions depends on specific needs and environment (not one-
size-fits-all):
a) use font-size 100% with a separate css file (default UA should
really do the same);
b) set default font-size to a smaller one and yet it's still legible
across all pages (of a site or app) provided you have controled use
environment like Intranet and UA;
c) provide a font size manipulation javascript function visibly, like
a (small), A (normal, A+ (large) ...
Jun 27 '08 #40

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
>
c) provide a font size manipulation javascript function visibly, like
a (small), A (normal, A+ (large) ...
No, please. This is such a wasted effort. All browsers have this ability
built in. If you really think your users are so dumb they don't know how
to do this themselves, then teach them how to adjust their browser
settings. That's something they can use on other sites, not just yours.

I have yet to see one of the stupid custom font control things that even
came close to my preferred text size.

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #41

P: n/a
Don Li wrote:
On Apr 16, 9:58 am, Don Li <tatata9...@gmail.comwrote:
>I've tried
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:0.8em;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:11pct;">
or
<body style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica;font-size:80%;">
to no avail. In IE7 it shows up as Medium. What did I do wrong?

Thanks.

I'd like to end the 'religious war' by summing it up for the benefit
of future inquirers.
Possible solutions depends on specific needs and environment (not one-
size-fits-all):
That is way the design should incorporate the user's default.
a) use font-size 100% with a separate css file (default UA should
really do the same);
Not sure what you mean by this. You default font for your page should be
100% of the whatever the the user has set his UA default. <100% should
only be used for limited, non-essential text, boilerplate.
b) set default font-size to a smaller one and yet it's still legible
across all pages (of a site or app) provided you have controled use
environment like Intranet and UA;
No, folks have varying acuity of eyesight and preferences within
"closed" environments as out in the wild and woolly Internet. Unless
you're on of those BSOFH and just like to torment your co-workers.
c) provide a font size manipulation javascript function visibly, like
a (small), A (normal, A+ (large) ...
No, JavaScript is almost never the solution. Don't screw with the user's
default font size and there will be now need to of him to fiddle with
microfonts...No need for extra features if you don't cause the problem
in the first place.
--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
Jun 27 '08 #42

P: n/a
On 4/19/2008 12:46 PM, Bergamot wrote:
Don Li wrote:
>c) provide a font size manipulation javascript function visibly, like
a (small), A (normal, A+ (large) ...

No, please. This is such a wasted effort. All browsers have this ability
built in. If you really think your users are so dumb they don't know how
to do this themselves, then teach them how to adjust their browser
settings. That's something they can use on other sites, not just yours.

I have yet to see one of the stupid custom font control things that even
came close to my preferred text size.
In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results for a
browser window that is less than full screen and with 800x600 resolution.

One of the capabilities of SeaMonkey and Firefox (both Mozilla browsers,
based on the Gecko rendering engine) is to add the PrefBar extension.
PrefBar allows the user to setup Font-, Font+, and Font= buttons on a
toolbar outside of the displayed Web page (among many other things); the
Font= button restores the original size in case the user forgets how
many times Font- or Font+ was selected.

--
David Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Have you been using Netscape and now feel abandoned by AOL?
Then use SeaMonkey. Go to <http://www.seamonkey-project.org/>.
Jun 27 '08 #43

P: n/a
David E. Ross wrote:
.. is to add the PrefBar extension. PrefBar allows the user to setup
Font-, Font+, and Font= buttons
It is a nice extension (especially for the JavaScript checkbox) but one
can also just press Control-Plus, Control-Minus, and Control-Zero as
well.

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
Jun 27 '08 #44

P: n/a
On Apr 20, 10:34 am, "David E. Ross" <nob...@nowhere.notwrote:
In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results for a
browser window that is less than full screen and with 800x600 resolution.
Why is it any worse - in general - than a user changing the size of
his text himself? If the method is via PHP to deliver, eg, a bigger
font-size from a stylesheet alternative. In other words, you press A+
and this causes the server to change the applicable css instruction.
Jun 27 '08 #45

P: n/a
Patricia Aldoraz wrote:
On Apr 20, 10:34 am, "David E. Ross" <nob...@nowhere.notwrote:
>In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results

Why is it any worse - in general - than a user changing the size of
his text himself?
Because *no* web author has *any* clue as to what the user considers
small, medium or large type. The choices provided by such clueless
authors are invariably inadequate for the job.
If the method is via PHP to deliver, eg, a bigger
font-size from a stylesheet alternative. In other words, you press A+
and this causes the server to change the applicable css instruction.
<sigh>

What's your idea of "bigger" type?

--
Berg
Jun 27 '08 #46

P: n/a
Bergamot wrote:
What's your idea of "bigger" type?

XXXXXXX X X X XXXXXXX
X X X X X
X X X X X
X XXXXXXX X XXXXXXX
X X X X X
X X X X X
X X X X XXXXXXX
--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Blinky: http://blinkynet.net

Jun 27 '08 #47

P: n/a
Scripsit Bergamot:
>>In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results

Why is it any worse - in general - than a user changing the size of
his text himself?

Because *no* web author has *any* clue as to what the user considers
small, medium or large type. The choices provided by such clueless
authors are invariably inadequate for the job.
Almost all resize features I've seen give the choice of (at most) five
sizes, generally corresponding to the five sizes selectable via IE's
font size menu. So it really sounds like pointless duplication, though
often with added confusion: you can click on A+ and it remains looking
functional, even though you have reached the limit, i.e. the font is as
big as you can get with that "tool".

If we added a control that has more options, say 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,
15, 16 points, then there would be some added value especially to IE
users, who need to set up a user style sheet if they want anything but
one of the built-in five sizes or the size set on a page.

However, this would need to work thru the server to be adequate, since
otherwise the user would need to select the size on each and every page
when moving around a site. This is manageable but not quite easy and not
quite clean. (You need cookies or info embedded in a URL.)

It could be adequate, for example, for a site intended for people with
disabilities, not so much for their ordinary use on their own computer
(which is something to be arranged separately) but for their use on
other systems where they cannot change settings or just don't have the
time but could set, say, the font size to 36 points when visiting the
one site that is really important to them.

Of course, this cannot be done in HTML, and this topic has become rather
off-topic... (The user interface for setting the font size would
naturally be an HTML form, preferably with text input field for the font
size, but this is the most trivial side of the matter.)

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

Jun 27 '08 #48

P: n/a
On 2008-04-20, Jukka K. Korpela <jk******@cs.tut.fiwrote:
Scripsit Bergamot:
>>>In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results

Why is it any worse - in general - than a user changing the size of
his text himself?

Because *no* web author has *any* clue as to what the user considers
small, medium or large type. The choices provided by such clueless
authors are invariably inadequate for the job.

Almost all resize features I've seen give the choice of (at most) five
sizes, generally corresponding to the five sizes selectable via IE's
font size menu. So it really sounds like pointless duplication, though
often with added confusion: you can click on A+ and it remains looking
functional, even though you have reached the limit, i.e. the font is as
big as you can get with that "tool".
In theory the a, A, A+ buttons could also change some of the other
styles to adapt to the different font size.

To some extent sizing containers in ems does that, but some designers
might want more discontinuous changes for some reason.
Jun 27 '08 #49

P: n/a
Bergamot wrote:
Patricia Aldoraz wrote:
>>"David E. Ross" <nob...@nowhere.notwrote:
>>In general, use of a, A, A+ on a Web page gives really bad results

Why is it any worse - in general - than a user changing the size of
his text himself?

Because *no* web author has *any* clue as to what the user considers
small, medium or large type. The choices provided by such clueless
authors are invariably inadequate for the job.
I'll agree with that. My former ISP's home page had the a, A, A+ crap
and the choices (in the CSS) were 72%, 84%, and 92%.
(Naturally, JavaScript had to be On to change.)

--
-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista
Jun 27 '08 #50

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