MAC Browsers and Compatibility with Windows Browsers

[HEX]

Have a site under development which works with both IE and Mozilla Firefox.
Three MAC users accessed site and two have a small problem with one page and the other recently went to the new Leopard release with Safari V3.0.4. browser. This user has big problems with a couple of pages. A couple of users have older Safari and one has Firefox. They experience the minor issue.

Is developing a site with Windows and targeting IE and Firefox as the standard site checkers not a good way to go? Or is trying to have a site also work in the MAC world considered mission impossible? This compatibility issue is mind boggling to me being a new person at this, and it's my first experience. Which worlds browsers best represents a testing check for a standard to follow?

The site is built using ASP Net 2.0. and VWD.

Thanks

[jhardman]

It is not Safari's fault. "Valid code" is decided on by the world wide web consortium ("W3C") and all browsers are supposed to interpret this the same. However, back when Internet Explorer was passing up Netscape as the most popular browser about 10 years ago, those two purposefully introduced new ways to handle the code. They both became very non-compliant on purpose. This made a big headache for programmers, and many decided they would have to write different versions of the page for different browsers. This was a big hassle, and the non-compliance of IE is one of the reasons ff is now the most popular browser.

The reason behind the current problem, is the browser routing mechanism probably doesn't recognize safari (as I said, it is a throw-back to a standard practice 10 years ago, and Safari hasn't been around that long) and who knows what it is being sent. The best practice now is to not use browser detection, and just send every page valid code. I would suggest you turn off browser detection, or add safari to some list of browsers that can handle good code, but I am glad you got it to work, regardless.

Jared

[HEX]

It is not Safari's fault. "Valid code" is decided on by the world wide web consortium ("W3C") and all browsers are supposed to interpret this the same. However, back when Internet Explorer was passing up Netscape as the most popular browser about 10 years ago, those two purposefully introduced new ways to handle the code. They both became very non-compliant on purpose. This made a big headache for programmers, and many decided they would have to write different versions of the page for different browsers. This was a big hassle, and the non-compliance of IE is one of the reasons ff is now the most popular browser.

The reason behind the current problem, is the browser routing mechanism probably doesn't recognize safari (as I said, it is a throw-back to a standard practice 10 years ago, and Safari hasn't been around that long) and who knows what it is being sent. The best practice now is to not use browser detection, and just send every page valid code. I would suggest you turn off browser detection, or add safari to some list of browsers that can handle good code, but I am glad you got it to work, regardless.

Jared

Jared,

My thanks for your efforts and the explanation. However, even in this case the last test had a validated page by W3C but the code sent somehow goofed Safari.
I guess this stuff is still evolving and I've got a lot of learning to do. My thanks also to the contributor Plater who directed the solution and Banfa who made me aware of Browser Shots. That's a nice aid.
Until the next snake bites, cheers.

[drhowarddrfine]

Please be aware that having a validated page in no way assures you of having a page that does what you want. Validation only means you are using the correct syntax, element and attribute combinations. Your page can still look wrong, especially when a browser doesn't handle the markup properly.

[HEX]

Please be aware that having a validated page in no way assures you of having a page that does what you want. Validation only means you are using the correct syntax, element and attribute combinations. Your page can still look wrong, especially when a browser doesn't handle the markup properly.

Thanks for your help. Recognize that, however if the page renders OK and validates OK elsewhere (other browsers), then what is the standard approach or is there one? Just experience to know where to shine the light?

Thanks again

[drhowarddrfine]

I haven't followed this thread since it looked like it was an asp problem. All browsers have some little quirk all its own and the fixes are usually well known. If this truly is a Safari issue, then Google may be your only friend, along with searching the Apple web site.

I wish I could help more but don't own a Mac and only use browsershots to test my sites and waiting for that would take forever. But I will try and find some time to look at it deeper so watch this space in case I find it.

[HEX]

I haven't followed this thread since it looked like it was an asp problem. All browsers have some little quirk all its own and the fixes are usually well known. If this truly is a Safari issue, then Google may be your only friend, along with searching the Apple web site.

I wish I could help more but don't own a Mac and only use browsershots to test my sites and waiting for that would take forever. But I will try and find some time to look at it deeper so watch this space in case I find it.

Thanks, your suggestion is a good one as that is probably what I should be doing. I'll snoop around also. Then, I will get back here if I find anything. I have since noticed on searches there are entries describing problems with Safari and the ASP menu control, but nothing states who really owns the problem, just efforts to fix. I apparently haven't been alone in this issue.

Thanks again.

[jhardman]

Thanks, your suggestion is a good one as that is probably what I should be doing. I'll snoop around also. Then, I will get back here if I find anything. I have since noticed on searches there are entries describing problems with Safari and the ASP menu control, but nothing states who really owns the problem, just efforts to fix. I apparently haven't been alone in this issue.

Thanks again.

Let me briefly point out a pet peeve. You keep using the term "ASP" incorrectly. ASP does not have a menu control nor is it supported by .NET. You are using a different technology called "ASP.NET". The two have a similar foundation, run on the same servers, and have some cosmetic similarities. Besides that they are not very similar, and shortening the name "ASP.NET" to "ASP" will continue to confuse people (the experts trying to help you, other newbies trying to get answers, etc). ASP.NET is a higher-order programming language full of added features and functionality that the user doesn't need to think about or even know about. ASP is a relatively bare-bones scripting language that simple yet powerful and inspired M$ to create ASP.NET.

And while I'm complaining, one of my main complaints about .NET (and higher-order languages in general) is it takes control out of the hands of the programmer. I will not deny that it makes programming easier and faster in many cases, but for programmers who want to retain tight control over exactly what the result is, .NET makes this very difficult with built-in "features" that you neither asked for nor want. The current problem is probably caused by one of .NET's "features" (I don't think your server will route browsers automatically, although it isn't inconceivable).

Anyway, if you're still around, I might have time to check your new page Saturday or so.

Jared

[HEX]

Let me briefly point out a pet peeve. You keep using the term "ASP" incorrectly. ASP does not have a menu control nor is it supported by .NET. You are using a different technology called "ASP.NET". The two have a similar foundation, run on the same servers, and have some cosmetic similarities. Besides that they are not very similar, and shortening the name "ASP.NET" to "ASP" will continue to confuse people (the experts trying to help you, other newbies trying to get answers, etc). ASP.NET is a higher-order programming language full of added features and functionality that the user doesn't need to think about or even know about. ASP is a relatively bare-bones scripting language that simple yet powerful and inspired M$ to create ASP.NET.

And while I'm complaining, one of my main complaints about .NET (and higher-order languages in general) is it takes control out of the hands of the programmer. I will not deny that it makes programming easier and faster in many cases, but for programmers who want to retain tight control over exactly what the result is, .NET makes this very difficult with built-in "features" that you neither asked for nor want. The current problem is probably caused by one of .NET's "features" (I don't think your server will route browsers automatically, although it isn't inconceivable).

Anyway, if you're still around, I might have time to check your new page Saturday or so.

Jared

Thanks for your comments. The first entry in the thread stated the issue dealt with ASP NET 2.0. Subsequent entries had the same reference or it was implied. Apologize if I confused folks by abbreviating to ASP later on in the thread. Assumed all would be read and understood what stuff the issue was about. No need to pursue anything further and thanks for your assistance.