There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
for me before.
I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
text. What's a good way to do this?
Some of the text can go in the 'alt' tag of the image, which I suppose
is checked by a search, but that could be a bit long. Suppose I could
use white-on-white like the spammers do... (:-/) I expect there's a
recognized way, though.
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
20  2696 
On 10/10/2007 12:03 PM, Pete wrote:
There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
for me before.
I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
text. What's a good way to do this?
Some of the text can go in the 'alt' tag of the image, which I suppose
is checked by a search, but that could be a bit long. Suppose I could
use white-on-white like the spammers do... (:-/) I expect there's a
recognized way, though.
-- Pete --
Imagine a blind person using an audio browser. He can't see your image,
but his browser "reads" the rest of the page aloud to him. The audio
browser also reads the text from ALT attributes. The ALT attribute for
your image should thus contain enough text to at least inform a blind
user what the image was about. If that cannot be done without quoting
the text in the image, then you should indeed quote the text in the ALT
attribute.
This is one reason why images should NOT be used to convey text.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>
Natural foods can be harmful: Look at all the
people who die of natural causes.
In article <PP******************************@softcom.net>,
David E. Ross <no****@nowhere.notwrote:
>On 10/10/2007 12:03 PM, Pete wrote:
>There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
for me before.
I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
text. What's a good way to do this?
Imagine a blind person using an audio browser. He can't see your image,
but his browser "reads" the rest of the page aloud to him. The audio
browser also reads the text from ALT attributes. The ALT attribute for
your image should thus contain enough text to at least inform a blind
user what the image was about. If that cannot be done without quoting
the text in the image, then you should indeed quote the text in the ALT
attribute.
Yes -- as long as as search engine does the same... (I presume so, but that
was my original question.) This particular image would probably not be much
use to a blind user, as it simply associates names with faces.
>
This is one reason why images should NOT be used to convey text.
Totally agreed, normally. In this case though a) the image was sent to
me annotated, and b) the text has to be closely placed to match the
people -- something I wouldn't trust a browser to do.
Thanks,
-- Pete --
>
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>
Natural foods can be harmful: Look at all the
people who die of natural causes.
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
In article <fe*************@news.t-online.com>,
Thomas Mlynarczyk <th****@mlynarczyk-webdesign.dewrote:
>
But I don't know if search engines would actually follow the longdesc-link.
This is the problem -- I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
sees longdesc at all, so maybe it's unlikely that a search engine would,
either.
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
>
There is no alt tag. There is just an alt *attribute*.
Sorry -- sloppy language... (:-/)
>
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
In our last episode, <fe**********@jwgibbs.CChem.Berkeley.EDU>, the lovely
and talented Pete broadcast on comp.infosystems. www.authoring.html:
In article <fe*************@news.t-online.com>,
Thomas Mlynarczyk <th****@mlynarczyk-webdesign.dewrote:
>>
But I don't know if search engines would actually follow the longdesc-link.
This is the problem -- I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
sees longdesc at all, so maybe it's unlikely that a search engine would,
either.
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
Why not just style descriptive text display: none?
>>
There is no alt tag. There is just an alt *attribute*.
Sorry -- sloppy language... (:-/)
>>
-- Pete --
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/ <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 467 days to go.
What do you do when you're debranded?
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
Beware of using ALT. If I turn images off, then I'll see your "hidden"
text in my browser, where you might have captioned your image "Pete (The
Bastard)" :-)
I'd see it if I viewed the source anyway.
--
Steve Swift http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html http://www.ringers.org.uk
Pete wrote:
>
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
AIUI, search engines tend to not index alt text at all, though some may
if the image is a link.
--
Berg
In article <47********@news.greennet.net>,
Steve Swift <St***********@gmail.comwrote:
>I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
Beware of using ALT. If I turn images off, then I'll see your "hidden"
text in my browser, where you might have captioned your image "Pete (The
Bastard)" :-)
I'd see it if I viewed the source anyway.
Hey, I'm not being that Machiavellian... (:-))
Not trying to conceal anything here -- actually wanting to *provide* info
for search engines while avoiding redundancy.
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
In article <5n************@mid.individual.net>,
Bergamot <be******@visi.comwrote:
>Pete wrote:
>>
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
AIUI, search engines tend to not index alt text at all, though some may
if the image is a link.
Ehh. Not too useful then.
What about '<meta name="keywords" content=...>', that I seem to remember
was once recommended for this sort of thing? I also remember hearing
that engines tend to ignore this because of misuse...
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
Well, responding to myself... [after doing my own googling!]
In article <fe**********@jwgibbs.CChem.Berkeley.EDU>,
Pete <ne*******@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.eduwrote:
>In article <5n************@mid.individual.net>,
Bergamot <be******@visi.comwrote:
>>
AIUI, search engines tend to not index alt text at all, though some may
if the image is a link.
Ehh. Not too useful then.
But Google itself seems to recommend using the alt attribute to identify
image content, as does a tutorial or two, so I guess that *is* the thing
to do.
>
What about '<meta name="keywords" content=...>', that I seem to remember
was once recommended for this sort of thing? I also remember hearing
that engines tend to ignore this because of misuse...
And I was right about that...(as per many web articles) It may still be
attended to at a very low priority level, but only as a last resort.
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.)
In article <fe**********@jwgibbs.CChem.Berkeley.EDU>, ne*******@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.edu (Pete) wrote:
In article <47********@news.greennet.net>,
Steve Swift <St***********@gmail.comwrote:
I may eventually just have to see if the alt attribute shows up in a
google...
Beware of using ALT. If I turn images off, then I'll see your "hidden"
text in my browser, where you might have captioned your image "Pete (The
Bastard)" :-)
I'd see it if I viewed the source anyway.
Hey, I'm not being that Machiavellian... (:-))
Not trying to conceal anything here -- actually wanting to *provide* info
for search engines while avoiding redundancy.
-- Pete --
I think in your particular case that if you really want search engines
to find the information, then you should include it in a paragraph
of actual text along with the image (even though the image itself
contains annotation).
Elsewhere in this thread there was mention of using keywords, and
whether or not search engines look at this: in previous discussions
here, one opinion was that search engines take into account whether
or not the keywords are also present in page text. I have no idea
if this is actually true or not.
David Stone wrote:
>
I think in your particular case that if you really want search engines
to find the information, then you should include it in a paragraph
of actual text along with the image (even though the image itself
contains annotation).
I still believe alt attributes are useful (i.e., used by search engines)
containers of indexable text. Google returns one of my pages when I
search for text included only in alt texts on that page. I'm convinced.
>
Elsewhere in this thread there was mention of using keywords, and
whether or not search engines look at this: in previous discussions
here, one opinion was that search engines take into account whether
or not the keywords are also present in page text.
In which case the meta keywords can be ignored and the textual content
used for indexing, which is what Google tells us to do anyway.
I have no idea if this is actually true or not.
I am likewise unenlightened in the mystical secrets of the SE's.
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
On 10/10/2007 5:34 PM, Pete wrote:
In article <PP******************************@softcom.net>,
David E. Ross <no****@nowhere.notwrote:
>On 10/10/2007 12:03 PM, Pete wrote:
>>There's probably a standard answer for this, but it's never cropped up
for me before.
I have a (png) image that includes some text (a labelled group photo
of a conference), and it'd be useful if a search engine can find those
embedded names too -- without redundantly placing them in visible HTML
text. What's a good way to do this?
Imagine a blind person using an audio browser. He can't see your image,
but his browser "reads" the rest of the page aloud to him. The audio
browser also reads the text from ALT attributes. The ALT attribute for
your image should thus contain enough text to at least inform a blind
user what the image was about. If that cannot be done without quoting
the text in the image, then you should indeed quote the text in the ALT
attribute.
Yes -- as long as as search engine does the same... (I presume so, but that
was my original question.) This particular image would probably not be much
use to a blind user, as it simply associates names with faces.
>This is one reason why images should NOT be used to convey text.
Totally agreed, normally. In this case though a) the image was sent to
me annotated, and b) the text has to be closely placed to match the
people -- something I wouldn't trust a browser to do.
Thanks,
Cut the text from the image. Then use <div</div(with appropriate
CSS if necessary) to group the image with the related HTML text. If you
do that, the necessary ALT text can be brief.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>
Natural foods can be harmful: Look at all the
people who die of natural causes.
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, John Hosking wrote:
I still believe alt attributes are useful (i.e., used by search engines)
containers of indexable text. Google returns one of my pages when I search
for text included only in alt texts on that page.
Can you give the address of that page and the specific text?
Last time when I checked, Google's web search indexed ALT text only in
<a href=...><img alt=...></a>
Google's image search seems to index ALT text always.
Andreas Prilop wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, John Hosking wrote:
>I still believe alt attributes are useful (i.e., used by search engines)
containers of indexable text. Google returns one of my pages when I search
for text included only in alt texts on that page.
Can you give the address of that page and the specific text?
Sure. I used "Manon Emmenegger beim Frühlingsturnier 2005" which is on
(only) the page at <http://www.zugerfechtclub.ch/(third picture below
the navbar, it's the one with the little girl) ...
>
Last time when I checked, Google's web search indexed ALT text only in
<a href=...><img alt=...></a>
.... and which is also not a link.
>
Google's image search seems to index ALT text always.
And maybe all of them?
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
Andreas Prilop wrote:
On Fri, 12 Oct 2007, John Hosking wrote:
>I used "Manon Emmenegger beim Frühlingsturnier 2005" which is on (only)
the page at <http://www.zugerfechtclub.ch/>
Sorry, no.
| These terms only appear in links pointing to this page: manon emmenegger
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...negger&strip=1
Compare with
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...+Spass&strip=1
Okay, I know we're drifting away from the topic at hand, but I don't
know what I'm looking at here. How did you (know to) get these result
pages, with "only appear in links pointing to this page"?
And the next question: If those words "only appear in links pointing to
this page", where are those links? I'm wondering, because it's weird
that some page somewhere would point to this site's home page for this
girl, since she's not really included on it (and the circle of Swiss
fencing sites is pretty small). I was thinking Google had a keyword I
could use, like "link:", but that doesn't seem to do what I'm thinking
about.
--
John
Pondering the value of the UIP: http://improve-usenet.org/
In article <fe**********@jwgibbs.CChem.Berkeley.EDU>, ne*******@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.edu (Pete) wrote:
[...] I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
sees longdesc at all
iCab, Gecko (Mozilla, Firefox, Netscape, etc.) and Jaws (and presumably
other screen readers, like Window-Eyes) provide access to @longdesc.
iCab does so directly through the contextual menu's Image->Description
(which opens the @longdesc URL in a new window). In Gecko-based browsers
you need to, through the contextual menu, open the image's "Properties"
window, which lists the @longdesc URL as a "Description". In the current
Firefox the URL is just text, but I'm told that in Netscape 6 and 7 it
is a (clickable) hyperlink.
--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:59:58 +0200, John Hosking wrote:
I was thinking Google had a keyword I
could use, like "link:", but that doesn't seem to do what I'm thinking
about.
Add "site:example.com" as a search parameter.
--
Charles
In article <us************************@textnews.euro.net>,
Sander Tekelenburg <te******@euronet.nlwrote:
>In article <fe**********@jwgibbs.CChem.Berkeley.EDU>,
ne*******@jwgibbs.cchem.berkeley.edu (Pete) wrote:
>[...] I haven't found a (text or otherwise) browser that
sees longdesc at all
iCab, Gecko (Mozilla, Firefox, Netscape, etc.) and Jaws (and presumably
other screen readers, like Window-Eyes) provide access to @longdesc.
iCab does so directly through the contextual menu's Image->Description
(which opens the @longdesc URL in a new window).
That's not one I'm familiar with, but it soulds as if it does the 'right'
thing...
In Gecko-based browsers
you need to, through the contextual menu, open the image's "Properties"
window, which lists the @longdesc URL as a "Description". In the current
Firefox the URL is just text,
Mnyehh. No wonder I didn't notice it then! (:-/) And I don't think
simply showing the URL as text is what the originators of the attribute
were thinking of! Not what I'd call 'access' anyway.
but I'm told that in Netscape 6 and 7 it
is a (clickable) hyperlink.
....That's what I assume they *were* thinking of...
-- Pete --
--
================================================== ==========================
The address in the header is a Spam Bucket -- don't bother replying to it...
(If you do need to email, replace the account name with my true name.) This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion. Similar topics
by: David |
last post by:
Hi,
I'm trying to add a search facility to a page that looks for matches in one,
other or both memo fields of a database. The code below works fine if the
visitor types in one word, or the term...
|
by: George |
last post by:
Hi,
Anyone has the background for explaining?
I have made a search on my name and I have got a link to another
search engine.
The link's title was the search phrase for the other search engine...
|
by: Zambo via SQLMonster.com |
last post by:
Hi!
We have Sql Server 2000 in our server (NT 4). Our database have now about
+350.000 rows with information of images. Table have lot of columns
including information about image name, keywords,...
|
by: Sandy.Pittendrigh |
last post by:
Here's a question I don't know the answer to:
I have a friend who makes very expensive, hand-made bamboo
flyrods. He's widely recognized (in the fishing industry) as one of
the 3-5 'best' rod...
|
by: D. Dante Lorenso |
last post by:
Trying to use the 'search' in the docs section of PostgreSQL.org
is extremely SLOW. Considering this is a website for a database
and databases are supposed to be good for indexing content, I'd...
|
by: Miguel Dias Moura |
last post by:
Hello,
I launched a web site some time ago and i am having problems in making it
visible in the search engines.
I used a lot of Keywords, not only in text but also in links, page and image...
|
by: bb nicole |
last post by:
Below is my search engine for job portal which jobseeker can find the job through quick search. But it cant work... Is it mysql query got problem?? Thanx..
Interface
<html>
<head>
<title>UMS...
|
by: =?Utf-8?B?cm9kY2hhcg==?= |
last post by:
hey all,
what determines how high a website's ranking will appear after being
searched? what can i do to my website to give it a good chance of being
ranked pretty high?
thanks,
rodchar
|
by: lllomh |
last post by:
Define the method first
this.state = {
buttonBackgroundColor: 'green',
isBlinking: false, // A new status is added to identify whether the button is blinking or not
}
autoStart=()=>{
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next Access Europe meeting will be on Wednesday 4 Oct 2023 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM)
The start time is equivalent to 19:00 (7PM) in Central...
|
by: Aliciasmith |
last post by:
In an age dominated by smartphones, having a mobile app for your business is no longer an option; it's a necessity. Whether you're a startup or an established enterprise, finding the right mobile app...
|
by: giovanniandrean |
last post by:
The energy model is structured as follows and uses excel sheets to give input data:
1-Utility.py contains all the functions needed to calculate the variables and other minor things (mentions...
|
by: NeoPa |
last post by:
Introduction
For this article I'll be using a very simple database which has Form (clsForm) & Report (clsReport) classes that simply handle making the calling Form invisible until the Form, or all...
|
by: Teri B |
last post by:
Hi, I have created a sub-form Roles. In my course form the user selects the roles assigned to the course.
0ne-to-many. One course many roles.
Then I created a report based on the Course form and...
|
by: nia12 |
last post by:
Hi there,
I am very new to Access so apologies if any of this is obvious/not clear.
I am creating a data collection tool for health care employees to complete. It consists of a number of...
|
by: NeoPa |
last post by:
Introduction
For this article I'll be focusing on the Report (clsReport) class. This simply handles making the calling Form invisible until all of the Reports opened by it have been closed, when it...
|
by: isladogs |
last post by:
The next online meeting of the Access Europe User Group will be on Wednesday 6 Dec 2023 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC) and finishing at about 19:15 (7.15PM).
In this month's session, Mike...
| |
