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What html do I insert in opening Flash page to be search engine friendly?

P: n/a
I am webmaster for the domain <www.alpha1.org.au>.

Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.

'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,
when I use a Mac, my browser (both Safari and Firefox) tells me that I
don't have the required Macromedia Flash Plugin, despite me having
installed it. (As an aside, if anyone has a solution for this little
mystery I'd be happy to hear it). So if you're a Mac user, to see the
Flash Page, go to URL <www.alpha1.org.au/flashpage.html>.

Having submitted the domain <www.alpha1.org.auto major search
engines some time back, such as Google and Yahoo!, and having
confirmed that these search engine's web crawlers had in fact indexed
the domain, I tried searching on some obvious search terms, eg.
Alpha-1 Association Australia. The search results displayed do not
seem to include <www.alpha1.org.au>.

I think I've figured out that this has something to do with the
opening page being the Flash page, and this opening page does not
contain a link to the rest of the site's pages. In terms of the Flash
page at least, Instant Website is very restrictive with what can be
included on this Flash page, and so the search engines' web crawlers
are not accessing the rest of the domain's pages. I don't know if this
is the case for sure, happy to be corrected here, but that seems a
logical explanation to me.

I could of course forget about the idea of having the opening page as
a Flash page. But for now at least, I'd prefer to keep it.

Given that I can't edit the Flash page via Instant Website, I have
managed to figure out how to access the web site's files via an ftp
client. And presumably, I can edit these files via an html editor (in
the absence of any better suggestion I have 'Taco HTML Edit'), and
then upload them via ftp. At least this is what my Registrant has
suggested.

So, my question. Can anyone suggest what I should insert into which
page so that (i) I retain the Flash page when someone visits
<www.alpha1.org.au>, and (ii) web crawlers are able to see beyond the
Flash page into the bowels of the site? One of the pages that are
amongst those that appear when I ftp the site is <flashpage.html>. I'm
guessing this is the page which I need to edit. Would it be best to
insert a Meta Tag (which I understand many search engines ignore?), or
just a link to, say, URL <http://www.alpha1.org.au/home.html>, from
which a web crawler can then access the rest of the site? One thing I
need to bear in mind is the impact on what a visitor sees when viewing
the Flash page. Or am I way off track with any of this thinking?

Any tips appeciated.

Cheers, Steven

Feb 5 '07 #1
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11 Replies


P: n/a
em*****@knowles.net.au wrote:
I am webmaster for the domain <www.alpha1.org.au>.

Not being an expert
...I send annoying music, without asking, and piss off my visitors.

Thanks for interfering with the nice mellow jazz I was listening to at
the time. Result: Instant Back Button.

Well, a short answer to your question. Search engines cannot click on
your silly [ Skip ] button, so they never see your site. Replace the
index.html file with the home.html file.

Fix all the errors:
<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpha1.org.au %2Fhome.html>

Oh wait. Your web site generator probably won't be able to do that.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Feb 5 '07 #2

P: n/a
em*****@knowles.net.au wrote:
I am webmaster for the domain <www.alpha1.org.au>.

Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.

'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,
when I use a Mac, my browser (both Safari and Firefox) tells me that I
don't have the required Macromedia Flash Plugin, despite me having
installed it. (As an aside, if anyone has a solution for this little
mystery I'd be happy to hear it). So if you're a Mac user, to see the
Flash Page, go to URL <www.alpha1.org.au/flashpage.html>.

Having submitted the domain <www.alpha1.org.auto major search
engines some time back, such as Google and Yahoo!, and having
confirmed that these search engine's web crawlers had in fact indexed
the domain, I tried searching on some obvious search terms, eg.
Alpha-1 Association Australia. The search results displayed do not
seem to include <www.alpha1.org.au>.

I think I've figured out that this has something to do with the
opening page being the Flash page, and this opening page does not
contain a link to the rest of the site's pages. In terms of the Flash
page at least, Instant Website is very restrictive with what can be
included on this Flash page, and so the search engines' web crawlers
are not accessing the rest of the domain's pages. I don't know if this
is the case for sure, happy to be corrected here, but that seems a
logical explanation to me.

I could of course forget about the idea of having the opening page as
a Flash page. But for now at least, I'd prefer to keep it.

Given that I can't edit the Flash page via Instant Website, I have
managed to figure out how to access the web site's files via an ftp
client. And presumably, I can edit these files via an html editor (in
the absence of any better suggestion I have 'Taco HTML Edit'), and
then upload them via ftp. At least this is what my Registrant has
suggested.

So, my question. Can anyone suggest what I should insert into which
page so that (i) I retain the Flash page when someone visits
<www.alpha1.org.au>, and (ii) web crawlers are able to see beyond the
Flash page into the bowels of the site? One of the pages that are
amongst those that appear when I ftp the site is <flashpage.html>. I'm
guessing this is the page which I need to edit. Would it be best to
insert a Meta Tag (which I understand many search engines ignore?), or
just a link to, say, URL <http://www.alpha1.org.au/home.html>, from
which a web crawler can then access the rest of the site? One thing I
need to bear in mind is the impact on what a visitor sees when viewing
the Flash page. Or am I way off track with any of this thinking?

Any tips appeciated.

Cheers, Steven
The alternative of not having a instroductory Flash page is best. My
browser disables Flash presentations unless I explicitly enable a
specific presentation. I only enable those that are necessary for why I
am viewing the page; that is, I do not enable gratuitous Flash
presentations, presentations that are there only for decoration or
amusement. See my
<http://www.rossde.com/internet/Webdevelopers.html#flashfor more about
the use of Flash.

Note that your actual home page at <http://www.alpha1.org.au/home.html>
has 75 HTML errors, a result of using Instant Website.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

I use SeaMonkey as my Web browser because I want
a browser that complies with Web standards. See
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/>.
Feb 5 '07 #3

P: n/a
On Feb 6, 3:42 am, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.nony.m...@example.invalidwrote:
emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
I am webmaster for the domain <www.alpha1.org.au>.
Not being an expert

..I send annoying music, without asking, and piss off my visitors.

Thanks for interfering with the nice mellow jazz I was listening to at
the time. Result: Instant Back Button.

Well, a short answer to your question. Search engines cannot click on
your silly [ Skip ] button, so they never see your site. Replace the
index.html file with the home.html file.

Fix all the errors:
<http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpha1.o...>

Oh wait. Your web site generator probably won't be able to do that.

Before replying, I just checked your past posts to see if you were
this insolent towards everyone.

You are! Mate, just don't bother replying, that's your best bet.

Feb 5 '07 #4

P: n/a
em*****@knowles.net.au wrote:
Before replying, I just checked your past posts to see if you were
this insolent towards everyone.

You are! Mate, just don't bother replying, that's your best bet.
I'm soooo sorry. My most humble apologies for making a point.

You have a beautiful web site. Carry on.

--
-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
Feb 5 '07 #5

P: n/a
On 5 Feb, 17:24, emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'.
Instant web page tools assuming no effort or knowledge whatsoever are
not compatible with good search engine placement. No work, no results.
>This tool is provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.
The fact they persuaded you to part with money for it doesn't make it
any better.

If you want results, either learn some stuff or trade money with
someone else who has. A good job will probably end by the Flash splash
disappearing. A compulsory Flash splash with no way round it for non-
Flash users will make some of your potential visitors disappear
instead.

Feb 5 '07 #6

P: n/a
In article <11**********************@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>,
em*****@knowles.net.au wrote:
Having submitted the domain <www.alpha1.org.auto major search
engines some time back, such as Google and Yahoo!, and having
confirmed that these search engine's web crawlers had in fact indexed
the domain, I tried searching on some obvious search terms, eg.
Alpha-1 Association Australia. The search results displayed do not
seem to include <www.alpha1.org.au>.
As others have mentioned, Flash is not compatible with search engine
position.

Flash also isn't compatible with the many people so pissed off with
Flash advertising that they switch Flash off - if you want these people
to see Flash, you need to use other content to convince them you have
something so compelling it is worth turning Flash back on just for that
page.

Also, since it is an Australian site, you should be complying with
disabled access laws in Australia which require web sites to be able to
be accessed - this is established in both statute and case law, as the
Sydney Olympic Committee found to their cost when they lost their case
(hint - Flash can't be made to comply). I do admit that hardly anyone
gets sued to fix their sites.

I seem to get good search engine results by writing content rich pages
devoted to specific topics, with relevant headings, in valid HTML, with
lots of internal links with specific text in the links. After you get
that stuff, then you style your pages with CSS to make them look good.
Then you add Javascript, if needed, for special effects (some businesses
and touchy individuals block Javascript). Then if you have something
like a an explanation that needs animation you might do that in Flash.

--
http://www.ericlindsay.com
Feb 5 '07 #7

P: n/a
Eric Lindsay wrote [in part]:
>
I seem to get good search engine results by writing content rich pages
devoted to specific topics, with relevant headings, in valid HTML, with
lots of internal links with specific text in the links. After you get
that stuff, then you style your pages with CSS to make them look good.
Then you add Javascript, if needed, for special effects (some businesses
and touchy individuals block Javascript). Then if you have something
like a an explanation that needs animation you might do that in Flash.
Me too, without JavaScript or Flash. And mine is a personal,
non-commercial site.

My <http://www.rossde.com/UPS_sucks/index.htmlgets some 50 hits a day.
I just now did an English-only Google search on the phrase "United
Parcel Service" and the word "Canada", my page was 7th. I did nothing
to promote the page to search engines.

My <http://www.rossde.com/editorials/CalOaksBank.htmldoes not receive
so many hits, less than 2 per day. However, I did an English-only
Google search on the phrase "Oaks State Bank", my page was 9th; it was
in the top 10 within three weeks after I put the page on my ISP's Web
server. Again, I did nothing to promote the page.

Both of these pages are compliant with the HTML 4.01 specification
(Transitional) and generally follow the suggestions in the Viewable With
Any Browser Campaign at <http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/index.html>.
I can't confirm the conjecture, but these two characteristics seem to
improve the ability of search engine bots and crawlers to index my
pages.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

I use SeaMonkey as my Web browser because I want
a browser that complies with Web standards. See
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/>.
Feb 6 '07 #8

P: n/a
Dan
On Feb 5, 12:24 pm, emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.
It would be better to learn HTML and write your own site with good,
clean code, instead of settling for whatever that "tool" vomits out.
'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,
when I use a Mac, my browser (both Safari and Firefox) tells me that I
don't have the required Macromedia Flash Plugin, despite me having
installed it. (As an aside, if anyone has a solution for this little
mystery I'd be happy to hear it). So if you're a Mac user, to see the
Flash Page, go to URL <www.alpha1.org.au/flashpage.html>.
It also tells me that I don't have the plugin, in Mozilla SeaMonkey
under Windows XP. As others have said, many people hate Flash intros
anyway. If you absolutely must use one, you at least need to have a
plain text link to the actual site, for the sake both of search
engines and of users who can't or won't access the Flash.

--
Dan
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/

Feb 6 '07 #9

P: n/a
In article <11********************@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.c om>,
"Dan" <da*@tobias.namewrote:
On Feb 5, 12:24 pm, emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.

It would be better to learn HTML and write your own site with good,
clean code, instead of settling for whatever that "tool" vomits out.
'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,
It works just fine on my Mac, OS 10.4.8 with FF 2.0.0.1
It's annoying as all get out, though - rather than skiping
the intro, I'd just skip the site and go somewhere else.
This flash animation doesn't really do anything for the
site, just adds another layer to navigate through before
getting to the useful stuff.

HOWEVER - I have javascript disabled in my browser, so when I
view the page it skips the call to checkuserflash.js

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE = "JavaScript" >
detectUserFlash();
</SCRIPT>

I suspect that detectUserFlash(); does something stupid
like test for IE first, then look for the flash version (i.e.
the test fails for any non-IE browser)

Alternatively, the stupidity could be that it tests for a
flash version equal to 5.0.0.0 (which is the codebase you
seem to be using) rather than greater than or equal to.

Not having the energy to go find and look at the .js file,
I can't tell you which is the case...
Feb 6 '07 #10

P: n/a
On Feb 6, 4:24 am, emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
I am webmaster for the domain <www.alpha1.org.au>.

Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.

'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,
when I use a Mac, my browser (both Safari and Firefox) tells me that I
don't have the required Macromedia Flash Plugin, despite me having
installed it. (As an aside, if anyone has a solution for this little
mystery I'd be happy to hear it). So if you're a Mac user, to see the
Flash Page, go to URL <www.alpha1.org.au/flashpage.html>.

Having submitted the domain <www.alpha1.org.auto major search
engines some time back, such as Google and Yahoo!, and having
confirmed that these search engine's web crawlers had in fact indexed
the domain, I tried searching on some obvious search terms, eg.
Alpha-1 Association Australia. The search results displayed do not
seem to include <www.alpha1.org.au>.

I think I've figured out that this has something to do with the
opening page being the Flash page, and this opening page does not
contain a link to the rest of the site's pages. In terms of the Flash
page at least, Instant Website is very restrictive with what can be
included on this Flash page, and so the search engines' web crawlers
are not accessing the rest of the domain's pages. I don't know if this
is the case for sure, happy to be corrected here, but that seems a
logical explanation to me.

I could of course forget about the idea of having the opening page as
a Flash page. But for now at least, I'd prefer to keep it.

Given that I can't edit the Flash page via Instant Website, I have
managed to figure out how to access the web site's files via an ftp
client. And presumably, I can edit these files via an html editor (in
the absence of any better suggestion I have 'Taco HTML Edit'), and
then upload them via ftp. At least this is what my Registrant has
suggested.

So, my question. Can anyone suggest what I should insert into which
page so that (i) I retain the Flash page when someone visits
<www.alpha1.org.au>, and (ii) web crawlers are able to see beyond the
Flash page into the bowels of the site? One of the pages that are
amongst those that appear when I ftp the site is <flashpage.html>. I'm
guessing this is the page which I need to edit. Would it be best to
insert a Meta Tag (which I understand many search engines ignore?), or
just a link to, say, URL <http://www.alpha1.org.au/home.html>, from
which a web crawler can then access the rest of the site? One thing I
need to bear in mind is the impact on what a visitor sees when viewing
the Flash page. Or am I way off track with any of this thinking?

Any tips appeciated.

Cheers, Steven
I would start by getting rid of the Flash intro.
If you don't understand the other issues, feel free to contact me
through my site below or search the News Group.
--
Regards Chad. http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

Feb 6 '07 #11

P: n/a
David Stone wrote:
In article <11********************@a34g2000cwb.googlegroups.c om>,
"Dan" <da*@tobias.namewrote:
>On Feb 5, 12:24 pm, emai...@knowles.net.au wrote:
>>Not being an expert in html, I take advantage of my domain
Registrant's web building tool, 'Instant Website'. This tool is
provided as part of the fee I pay for web hosting.
It would be better to learn HTML and write your own site with good,
clean code, instead of settling for whatever that "tool" vomits out.
>>'Instant Website' provides the option of having your opening page as a
Flash Page, which you'll see if you visit <www.alpha1.org.au>. Well,
you'll see it if you visit from a Windows machine. For some reason,

It works just fine on my Mac, OS 10.4.8 with FF 2.0.0.1
It's annoying as all get out, though - rather than skiping
the intro, I'd just skip the site and go somewhere else.
This flash animation doesn't really do anything for the
site, just adds another layer to navigate through before
getting to the useful stuff.

HOWEVER - I have javascript disabled in my browser, so when I
view the page it skips the call to checkuserflash.js

<SCRIPT LANGUAGE = "JavaScript" >
detectUserFlash();
</SCRIPT>

I suspect that detectUserFlash(); does something stupid
like test for IE first, then look for the flash version (i.e.
the test fails for any non-IE browser)

Alternatively, the stupidity could be that it tests for a
flash version equal to 5.0.0.0 (which is the codebase you
seem to be using) rather than greater than or equal to.

Not having the energy to go find and look at the .js file,
I can't tell you which is the case...
I'm using a PC with WindowsXP. I have Flash 9.0 r28 (9.0.28.0)
installed with SeaMonkey 1.1; a test of my Flash installation at
<http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/triggerpages_mmcom/flash.html>
is successful.

I have JavaScript enabled. However, I also have the FlashBlock 1.3.5
extension installed.

If I go to the indicated Web page, I get a text-only page that says:
Flash Plugin Required
You do not have the required Macromedia Flash Plugin to view the Flash Animation.
You may download the latest Flash Plugin from Macromedia Site
Or
You may proceed to the HTML site by clicking here.
I get this whether or not FlashBlock is enabled.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

I use SeaMonkey as my Web browser because I want
a browser that complies with Web standards. See
<http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/>.
Feb 7 '07 #12

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