How do I add table borders when they are not supported ?

[Michael Redbourn]

Hi,

I just switched from FP to DW and am very very happy !

So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

I just played around for a half hour in DW using tables within tables
but it seemed overly complex (I could make a template) but still
couldn't get the result that I want.

Any help would be much appreciated.

thanks,

Mike

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[Scott Bryce]

Michael Redbourn wrote:

Hi,

I just switched from FP to DW and am very very happy !

Learn to write HTML, and you will be even happier.

So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Firefox doesn't support borders? My copy of FireFox does.

Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

Post a link. We can't fix HTML we can't see.

[Ed Seedhouse]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:48:12 +0200, Michael Redbourn
<re******@bezeqint.netwrote:!

>So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Firfox supports border very well as a matter of fact. Better than IE in
my experience.

>Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

Forget about dreamweaver and start learning to code in actual html. It
will save you tons of time in the long run.

>I just played around for a half hour in DW using tables within tables
but it seemed overly complex (I could make a template) but still
couldn't get the result that I want.

Tables should never be used merely for layout. They are useful and
appropriate for tabular data, but for mere layout they are an
abomination.

Start with some research on the web. Go here
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/

and here: http://www.csscreator.com/ - and read the "how to" forum.

Also here: http://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/

That should give you a good start. They'll have links to other good
sites on web design and CSS.

You are wasting your time trying to master Dreamweaver in it's so-called
"Desing view" though it makes a decent html editor you might still use
because you've already bought it. But the "Design" view will only lead
you into lots and lots of trouble so far as desinging good web sites is
concerned.

[Zilbandy]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:39:18 GMT, Ed Seedhouse <es********@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>Tables should never be used merely for layout. They are useful and
appropriate for tabular data, but for mere layout they are an
abomination.

And yet, many times they work fine. But, this comment, and yours, have
nothing to do with the OP's question. :(

--
Zilbandy - Tucson, Arizona USA <zi*@zilbandyREMOVETHIS.com>
Dead Suburban's Home Page: http://zilbandy.com/suburb/
PGP Public Key: http://zilbandy.com/pgpkey.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~

[Michael Redbourn]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 12:03:23 -0700, Scott Bryce
<sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:

>Michael Redbourn wrote:

>Hi,

I just switched from FP to DW and am very very happy !

Learn to write HTML, and you will be even happier.

>So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Firefox doesn't support borders? My copy of FireFox does.

>Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

Post a link. We can't fix HTML we can't see.

Thanks, but I believe that Firefox only supports borders if one uses
CSS.

I just tried using CSS and they now display in Firefox.

regards,

Michael

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[Michael Redbourn]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 19:39:18 GMT, Ed Seedhouse <es********@shaw.ca>
wrote:

>On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:48:12 +0200, Michael Redbourn
<re******@bezeqint.netwrote:!

>>So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Firfox supports border very well as a matter of fact. Better than IE in
my experience.

>>Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

Forget about dreamweaver and start learning to code in actual html. It
will save you tons of time in the long run.

>>I just played around for a half hour in DW using tables within tables
but it seemed overly complex (I could make a template) but still
couldn't get the result that I want.

Tables should never be used merely for layout. They are useful and
appropriate for tabular data, but for mere layout they are an
abomination.

Start with some research on the web. Go here
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/

and here: http://www.csscreator.com/ - and read the "how to" forum.

Also here: http://pages.prodigy.net/chris_beall/TC/

That should give you a good start. They'll have links to other good
sites on web design and CSS.

You are wasting your time trying to master Dreamweaver in it's so-called
"Desing view" though it makes a decent html editor you might still use
because you've already bought it. But the "Design" view will only lead
you into lots and lots of trouble so far as desinging good web sites is
concerned.

thanks very much.

I will check out the links,

Mike

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[Scott Bryce]

Michael Redbourn wrote:

Thanks, but I believe that Firefox only supports borders if one uses
CSS.

That isn't true. Something is wrong with your HTML.

[Michael Redbourn]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:48:12 +0200, Michael Redbourn
<re******@bezeqint.netwrote:

>Hi,

I just switched from FP to DW and am very very happy !

So whilst I'm mastering Dreamweaver (gonna be a while yet :-) - I
thought that I'd try and find out how to add borders for browers like
Firefox which don't support them.

Not sure if I've explained the above well but my borders display in IE
but not in Firefox.

I just played around for a half hour in DW using tables within tables
but it seemed overly complex (I could make a template) but still
couldn't get the result that I want.

Any help would be much appreciated.

thanks,

Mike

I didn't express myself precisely enough in my original post and
should have said 'colored borders' and not just borders. My apologies.
I will try to be more precise in future postings.
Scott

thanks for the tip about giving a link. This was my first post to the
group and I tried to walk in quietly :-) But perhaps not very
intelligently :-(

http://www.yearinbrazil.com/misc/borders.html

My original question is perhaps simply academic now since CSS solved
my problem. I don't think that Opera would display the tables as seen
in either IE or Firefox but that is regretfully only one of it's
shortcomings. And I am not trying to start a browser war here :-)

(yes, the index page is me and I made the website about 6 years ago
but perhaps sadly have not maintained it)

Ed

please see the above regarding 'color borders'. As for 'hand coding I
wouldn't venture to get into the pros and cons as the issue has been
thrashed to death in so many places elsewhere. Of course it's
wonderful to know how to hand code but to build a whole complex site
from scratch using it ? I am amazed (particularly after having used FP
for years and seeing how terrible and bloated it's code is) at how
neat and concise DWs pages are. See the above link. The page took a
couple of minutes and I only started learning the program a few days
ago.

I wouldn't venture to argue a case either as to whether I should have
used html or xhtml either - or which versions :-)

Zilbandy - thanks. There are obviously some incredibly successful
pages on the web that rely heavily on tables.

thanks to you all - Mike


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[Scott Bryce]

Michael Redbourn wrote:

I didn't express myself precisely enough in my original post and
should have said 'colored borders' and not just borders.

That totally changes things. For color anything, you want to use CSS. It
looks like you already found your solution.

please see the above regarding 'color borders'. As for 'hand coding I
wouldn't venture to get into the pros and cons as the issue has been
thrashed to death in so many places elsewhere. Of course it's
wonderful to know how to hand code but to build a whole complex site
from scratch using it ?

Absolutely! Hand coded HTML is much easier to maintain, if it is done
right. Most complex sites are database driven and use HTML templates.
Not every page is hand-coded. But just try to build a template out of
HTML crated from DW. It isn't easy. You wind up recoding most of it by
hand anyway.

My site will earn me about $70,000 USD this year. It is made up of
hundreds of pages. It is all hand-coded.

I am amazed (particularly after having used FP
for years and seeing how terrible and bloated it's code is) at how
neat and concise DWs pages are.

Hand coded pages will be even cleaner.

I wouldn't venture to argue a case either as to whether I should have
used html or xhtml either - or which versions :-)

That one has been argued in several places. Use HTML 4.01 strict, unless
you need to use transitional on a legacy page.

Zilbandy - thanks. There are obviously some incredibly successful
pages on the web that rely heavily on tables.

Yes, but that doesn't make it the right way to do things.

[Michael Redbourn]

On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:58:35 -0700, Scott Bryce
<sb****@scottbryce.comwrote:

>My site will earn me about $70,000 USD this year. It is made up of
hundreds of pages. It is all hand-coded.

I checked out scottbryce.com which is a very nice site :-)

but is this the one that earns you $70K a year ?

regards,

Mike

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