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Firefox's Firebug ext giving me errors in my CSS

P: n/a
Hi All

Two of my friends have Firefox installed with FireBug, which I believe is an
extension to test markup, and have found oddles of errors in my CSS even
though Firefox and IE display the pages without problems.

Has anybody used and had problems with this Firebug?

It keeps saying that my cursor:hand command is invalid. I thought this was
standard CSS2?

Any ideas why?

Thanks

Laphan
Nov 2 '06 #1
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37 Replies


P: n/a
"Laphan" <in**@SpamMeNot.co.ukwrote:
>It keeps saying that my cursor:hand command is invalid. I thought this was
standard CSS2?
RTFM: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/ui.html#cursor-props

IIRC "hand" is a proprietary MSIE value.

--
Spartanicus
Nov 2 '06 #2

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Many thanks for the prompt reply.

Which standard param should I use for in essence a mouse over event that is
usually a hand pointer?

Thanks

Laphan

"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:gq********************************@4ax.com...
"Laphan" <in**@SpamMeNot.co.ukwrote:
>It keeps saying that my cursor:hand command is invalid. I thought this was
standard CSS2?
RTFM: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/ui.html#cursor-props

IIRC "hand" is a proprietary MSIE value.

--
Spartanicus
Nov 2 '06 #3

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the Posted via Supernews,
http://www.supernews.com jungle
Laphan <in**@SpamMeNot.co.ukstumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
>
It keeps saying that my cursor:hand command is invalid.

http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 2 '06 #4

P: n/a
Laphan wrote:
Two of my friends have Firefox installed with FireBug, which I believe is
an extension to test markup, and have found oddles of errors in my CSS
even though Firefox and IE display the pages without problems.
Oh my goodness! A browser that can do error recovery!
It keeps saying that my cursor:hand command is invalid. I thought this
was standard CSS2?
Did you check?

http://w3.org/TR/CSS2/ui.html#cursor-props

"hand" is proprietary Microsoft gubbins and should generally be avoided
because:

(a) It is non-standard
(b) IE has supported 'pointer' since version 6 and earlier versions have low
market share
(c) Making things that are not links look like links is generally no a great
idea

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
Nov 2 '06 #5

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"Laphan" <in**@SpamMeNot.co.ukwrote:
>Which standard param should I use for in essence a mouse over event that is
usually a hand pointer?
Again: RTFM; http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/ui.html#cursor-props

--
Spartanicus
Nov 2 '06 #6

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Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
Very cool test page; thanks!

Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you
Nov 5 '06 #7

P: n/a
Els
Stan Brown wrote:
Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
>http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

Very cool test page; thanks!

Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?
You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?
Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Nov 5 '06 #8

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Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:51:34 +0100 from Els <el*********@tiscali.nl>:
Stan Brown wrote:
Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
Very cool test page; thanks!

Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?
I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.
Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)
?? I don't understand the joke.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you
Nov 5 '06 #9

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Els
Stan Brown wrote:
Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:51:34 +0100 from Els <el*********@tiscali.nl>:
>Stan Brown wrote:
>>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

Very cool test page; thanks!

Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?

I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.
>Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)

?? I don't understand the joke.
You said it was a $64K question - doesn't that mean you would pay that
amount for the answer? ;-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Nov 5 '06 #10

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In article <1u******************************@40tude.net>,
Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:51:34 +0100 from Els <el*********@tiscali.nl>:
Stan Brown wrote:

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

Very cool test page; thanks!

Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?
I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.
Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)
?? I don't understand the joke.

You said it was a $64K question - doesn't that mean you would pay that
amount for the answer? ;-)
Hell's bells! OP was serious! Look, forget Els' offer... I will
come up with an answer for half that amount. Don't go ahead with
any deal till I have been cut into the tender.

--
dorayme
Nov 5 '06 #11

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the LocusMeus.com jungle
Els <el*********@tiscali.nlstumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
Stan Brown wrote:
>Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:51:34 +0100 from Els <el*********@tiscali.nl>:
>>Stan Brown wrote:

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
<Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

Very cool test page; thanks!
Thank you.
>>>Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?

I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.
>>Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)

?? I don't understand the joke.

You said it was a $64K question - doesn't that mean you would pay that
amount for the answer? ;-)
Ya big tease :)

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 5 '06 #12

P: n/a
In article <op*******************@tbdata.com>,
"William Tasso" <Sp*********@tbdata.comwrote:
--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
I noticed your icon, (ok there was no pipe and it could be an
English Bobby or something else) and it reminded me: if you have
not seen it, you better, a clever and funny Sherlock Holmes by
Michael Caine, a Brilliant Dr. Watson by Ben Kingley in "Without
A Clue"

--
dorayme
Nov 5 '06 #13

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the jungle
dorayme <do************@optusnet.com.austumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
In article <op*******************@tbdata.com>,
"William Tasso" <Sp*********@tbdata.comwrote:
>--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp

I noticed your icon,
favicon? no.
avatar/image on that page? no.

Ahh - the x-face
(ok there was no pipe and it could be an
English Bobby or something else) and it reminded me: if you have
not seen it, you better, a clever and funny Sherlock Holmes by
Michael Caine, a Brilliant Dr. Watson by Ben Kingley in "Without
A Clue"
I have seen it - long time since.

Must have died at the cinema - bumped into it by accident on TV (hrmmm -
or maybe DVD/VHS at a friends place).
--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 5 '06 #14

P: n/a
Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:21:06 +1100 from dorayme
<do************@optusnet.com.au>:
In article <1u******************************@40tude.net>,
Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrote:
Stan Brown wrote:
Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:51:34 +0100 from Els <el*********@tiscali.nl>:
>Stan Brown wrote:
>>
>>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso
>><Sp*********@tbdata.com>:
>>>http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
>>>
>>Very cool test page; thanks!
>>>
>>Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
>>setting the cursor shape?
>>
>You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?
>
I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.
>
>Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)
>
?? I don't understand the joke.
You said it was a $64K question - doesn't that mean you would pay that
amount for the answer? ;-)
Ah. Thank you.
Hell's bells! OP was serious! Look, forget Els' offer... I will
come up with an answer for half that amount. Don't go ahead with
any deal till I have been cut into the tender.
We have a bid of $32K. Anyone care to go to $16K?

Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
show of the 1950s.[1] I would still like to know of any real-life
application that actually benefits from changing cursors.
[1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047701/

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you
Nov 6 '06 #15

P: n/a
On 2006-11-06, Stan Brown wrote:
....
>>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 22:01:51 -0000 from William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

Very cool test page; thanks!
....
>>
You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?
....
Ah. Thank you.
>Hell's bells! OP was serious! Look, forget Els' offer... I will
come up with an answer for half that amount. Don't go ahead with
any deal till I have been cut into the tender.

We have a bid of $32K. Anyone care to go to $16K?

Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
show of the 1950s.[1] I would still like to know of any real-life
application that actually benefits from changing cursors.
A web browser, of course. What else would be affected by changing
a web page's cursor?

Personally I'd like to get rid of every I-beam cursor from each
and every application on my computer!

--
Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
================================================== =================
Author:
Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
Nov 6 '06 #16

P: n/a
On Sun, 5 Nov 2006 20:46:48 -0500, Stan Brown
<th************@fastmail.fmwrote:
>>
Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
show of the 1950s.
Don't think that programme made it over this side of the Atlantic,
though I have more than once heard Americans use the phrase.

In terms of a web page I can't think of a useful application for setting
cursor shape. If one is writing an application front-end in Javascript
then it obviously can have uses. However the question then becomes why
it is useful to set the cursor in CSS rather than in Javascript.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Nov 6 '06 #17

P: n/a
Els
Stan Brown wrote:
>>>Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?

You mean a valid reason for setting the cursor in today's web world?

I might say "useful" rather than "valid", but I think we mean the
same thing.

Yes, I know of one. Will you pay in advance? :-)

?? I don't understand the joke.

You said it was a $64K question - doesn't that mean you would pay that
amount for the answer? ;-)

Ah. Thank you.
>Hell's bells! OP was serious! Look, forget Els' offer... I will
come up with an answer for half that amount. Don't go ahead with
any deal till I have been cut into the tender.

We have a bid of $32K. Anyone care to go to $16K?
I think that if I say yes, dorayme will try and do it for $8K..
Seriously, my "$64K question" was a reference to a popular TV quiz
show of the 1950s.[1]
[1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047701/
Don't know that show (not only on the wrong side of the pond, but also
before my time), but we have similar shows here, so the idea of a
'so-many-dollars question' wasn't new to me :-)
I would still like to know of any real-life
application that actually benefits from changing cursors.
This is one example:

acronym,
span.explain{
cursor:help;
text-decoration:none;
border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
}

<span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
word]</span>

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Nov 6 '06 #18

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On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:53:54 +0100, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrote:

>This is one example:

acronym,
span.explain{
cursor:help;
text-decoration:none;
border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
}

<span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
word]</span>
Well, it could have been marginally useful in principle.

Opera users do get an indication of help coming a fraction before the
title itself comes up. Unfortunately the cursor change may tempt them to
click on the span, which in fact suppresses the title display, so the
cursor is actually counter-productive.

Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.

(As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Nov 6 '06 #19

P: n/a
In message <MP************************@news.individual.net> , Sun, 5 Nov
2006 15:24:15, Stan Brown <th************@fastmail.fmwrites
>Now the $64K question: can someone suggest a practical application of
setting the cursor shape?
IMHO, for some sites it would be useful to be able to tell whether a
link goes to elsewhere on the page (#xyz), elsewhere on the same site
(page.htm), or to another site (http:// ...), without having to look
away from the link.

That might be done by more advanced CSS either underlining links with
dotted, dashed, or solid lines, or changing the cursor design.

The latter is approximated on one page of my site,
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.

And the home page (ditto) uses italics for same-page links.

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/- FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "" (SonOfRFC1036)
Nov 6 '06 #20

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VK

William Tasso wrote:
http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp
You may add here
cursor: not-allowed
Despite it's still in CSS3 (thus in "future hold") de facto it's
already implemented by all important browsers including FF and IE.
It is a great visual hint for not allowed/not supported operations
while hovering.

There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
still rather poor.

Nov 6 '06 #21

P: n/a
Els
Stephen Poley wrote:
>>acronym,
span.explain{
cursor:help;
text-decoration:none;
border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
}

<span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
word]</span>

Well, it could have been marginally useful in principle.

Opera users do get an indication of help coming a fraction before the
title itself comes up. Unfortunately the cursor change may tempt them to
click on the span, which in fact suppresses the title display, so the
cursor is actually counter-productive.
I think Opera users will soon get used to the idea that dotted/dashed
underline is different from straight underline, and doesn't indicate a
link ;-)
Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.

(As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)
Makes me wonder what versions you have.. I'm using FF on XP, and IE7,
6, 5.5 and 5.01. All give a question mark on the span I set
cursor:help for.

What about William's test page? Does that one not work for you either?

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

Now playing: Deep Purple - Fireball
Nov 6 '06 #22

P: n/a
Els
Dr J R Stockton wrote:
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.
So, I found an outbound link in the text, and am deducting that
'octothorpe' must mean what some refer to as a pound-sign. Just a
thought: This sign is usually used in HTML code for in-page links, so
to me as a web page author, it's counter intuitive. I think I might
have chosen some kind of arrow instead. Perhaps " &gt;&gt;&gt; " ?

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/

Now playing: Mirah - Stop and Think It Over
Nov 6 '06 #23

P: n/a
And lo, VK didst speak in
alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...g.stylesheets:
There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
still rather poor.
It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.

Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#search - Orca Search: Full-featured
spider and site-search engine
Nov 6 '06 #24

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the http://groups.google.com jungle
VK <sc**********@yahoo.comstumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
>
William Tasso wrote:
>http://williamtasso.com/tech/cursor-test.asp

You may add here
cursor: not-allowed
Despite it's still in CSS3 (thus in "future hold") de facto it's
already implemented by all important browsers including FF and IE.
But not Opera it seems.
There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
...
support besides IE is
still rather poor.
right - done, thanks. Page updated.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 6 '06 #25

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the GreyWyvern.com jungle
GreyWyvern <sp**@greywyvern.comstumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
And lo, VK didst speak in
alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...g.stylesheets:
>There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
still rather poor.

It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.
Is that different from presenting a full page of plain text?

Oh well, one to watch.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 6 '06 #26

P: n/a
VK
There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)
which is often necessary for complex web-based applications (say
SVG/VML graphics editors). Unfortunately its support besides IE is
still rather poor.

It is still under debate whether this will get implemented by any other
browser, for the simple fact that malicious webmasters could use a blank
image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.
I don't see it any more "dangerous" than
background-color: black;
color: black;
or
font-size: 4px;
or (to get really nasty) use IE's Matrix tranformation filter to show
the entire page mirrored and up side down. You tell me that the latter
will not break accessibility for sure :-)

There is a huge amount of ways in HTML/CSS to make a page so curved
that no one can use it. But how does it affect anyone besides the page
author who lost his potential audience?

Nov 6 '06 #27

P: n/a
VK
cursor: not-allowed
Despite it's still in CSS3 (thus in "future hold") de facto it's
already implemented by all important browsers including FF and IE.

But not Opera it seems.
Alas... Neither 8.x nor even 9.0 From what I have on my test desk it is
proven to be supported by: Firefox 1.5, Internet Explorer 6.0, 7.0,
Netscape 8.0 in "IE mode" (but strangely enough not in "Mozilla mode").
There is also
cursor: url(path/to/image.ico)

right - done, thanks. Page updated.
Actually it was my typo in there: despite *.ico files are also allowed
and working, more standard for this usage are *.cur files (like ones
for Windows cursors, if you have any .cur file it would be more
suitable).
It is supported by IE 6.0, 7.0 and Netscape 8.0 in "IE Mode"

Nov 6 '06 #28

P: n/a
Fleeing from the madness of the http://groups.google.com jungle
VK <sc**********@yahoo.comstumbled into
news:alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...ng.stylesheets
and said:
> thanks. Page updated.

Actually it was my typo in there: despite *.ico files are also allowed
and working, more standard for this usage are *.cur files (like ones
for Windows cursors,
yes - saw that in the spec (yes, I did check <g>), but ...
if you have any .cur file it would be more
suitable).
ahh - well it didn't occur to me, but of course there are many such files
on a windows box - so I've now altered the page to suit.

Once again - thanks.

--
William Tasso

http://williamtasso.com/words/what-is-usenet.asp
Nov 7 '06 #29

P: n/a
And lo, VK didst speak in
alt.http://www.webmaster,comp.infosystem...g.stylesheets:
>malicious webmasters could use a blank
image as a cursor, thus destroying all mouse accessibility within the
viewport. Such a situation would be multiplied many times were the
viewport maximized, or in full-screen mode.

I don't see it any more "dangerous" than
background-color: black;
color: black;
or
font-size: 4px;
or (to get really nasty) use IE's Matrix tranformation filter to show
the entire page mirrored and up side down. You tell me that the latter
will not break accessibility for sure :-)
In all those cases, only the contents of the viewport are affected, and
mouse functionality is preserved. However, the mouse cursor itself is an
interface to the rest of your desktop, not only the web browser. Being
able to hide it will present a confounding challenge to most users
unfamiliar with desktop keyboard navigation.

You and I may not have much trouble, but consider the many users who will
have no idea what's going on when their mouse cursor disappears and does
not come back when they "jiggle" the mouse.

Grey

--
The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
pitfall corollary that nothing is ridiculous.
- http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#search - Orca Search: Full-featured
spider and site-search engine
Nov 7 '06 #30

P: n/a
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 20:21:32 +0100, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrote:
>Stephen Poley wrote:
>Opera users do get an indication of help coming a fraction before the
title itself comes up. Unfortunately the cursor change may tempt them to
click on the span, which in fact suppresses the title display, so the
cursor is actually counter-productive.

I think Opera users will soon get used to the idea that dotted/dashed
underline is different from straight underline, and doesn't indicate a
link ;-)
Well, now I've kicked Firefox and IE into life - they do the same thing
(apart, that is, from IE not actually being able to display a dashed
bottom border ...)
>
>Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.

(As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)

Makes me wonder what versions you have.. I'm using FF on XP, and IE7,
6, 5.5 and 5.01. All give a question mark on the span I set
cursor:help for.
Hmm ... that gave me an "interesting" half hour trying to work out what
on earth was going on. The validators reported no errors in my page. The
doctype was one that should trigger standards mode. Eventually I
discovered that I had typed <STYLE type="test/css">

Opera didn't object, but the other two browsers did (correctly, I
think).

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/
Nov 7 '06 #31

P: n/a
In message <ws*****************************@40tude.net>, Mon, 6 Nov 2006
20:26:46, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrites
>Dr J R Stockton wrote:
><URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.

So, I found an outbound link in the text, and am deducting that
'octothorpe' must mean what some refer to as a pound-sign.
Only those on the wrong side of the Atlantic, surely? A true pound sign
looks like (I hope) "" and refers to the UK currency. The common UK
term for "octothorpe" is "hash".
Just a
thought: This sign is usually used in HTML code for in-page links, so
to me as a web page author, it's counter intuitive. I think I might
have chosen some kind of arrow instead. Perhaps " &gt;&gt;&gt; " ?
I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
cuff increases with the distance of the link.

If the cursor proper were to change, the number of extended fingers
could be used to signify, or the back of the hand could be marked. But
if implemented generally I'd choose to modulate the underline.

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 IE 6
<URL:http://www.jibbering.com/faq/>? JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang.javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htmjscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Nov 7 '06 #32

P: n/a
Els
Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In message <ws*****************************@40tude.net>, Mon, 6 Nov 2006
20:26:46, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrites
>>Dr J R Stockton wrote:
>><URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/uksumtim.htm>; if (at least in IE4/6)
one hovers the hand cursor on a link (except for any I've missed) it
grows a cuff. The cuff holds a period for same-page links, a plus for
same-site links, and an octothorpe for other-site links.

So, I found an outbound link in the text, and am deducting that
'octothorpe' must mean what some refer to as a pound-sign.

Only those on the wrong side of the Atlantic, surely?
Probably - I haven't always kept track of who used which word though
:-)
A true pound sign
looks like (I hope) "£" and refers to the UK currency. The common UK
term for "octothorpe" is "hash".
Yup, that's another term for that symbol.
>Just a thought: This sign is usually used in HTML code for in-page
links, so to me as a web page author, it's counter intuitive. I
think I might have chosen some kind of arrow instead. Perhaps "
&gt;&gt;&gt; " ?

I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
cuff increases with the distance of the link.
I can see your logic now that you explained it, but as a visitor it
isn't obvious to me.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Nov 7 '06 #33

P: n/a
Joe
In article <mp********************************@4ax.com>,
sb******************@xs4all.nl says...
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 09:53:54 +0100, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrote:

This is one example:

acronym,
span.explain{
cursor:help;
text-decoration:none;
border-bottom:1px dashed gray;
}

<span class="explain" title="[meaning of difficult word]">[difficult
word]</span>
Neither Firefox nor IE does anything useful with "cursor:help;" They
produce an I-cursor, which is usually associated with editing text.
SeaMonkey 1.0.1, Firefox 1.5, IE6, IE7b3 all display the help cursor for
me (XP Home SP2)
(As far as my browser versions are concerned anyway.)
ummm... IE5.5 works too. What browser versions have you got??
>
I use it for abbr and acronym.
Nov 7 '06 #34

P: n/a
VK

GreyWyvern wrote:
In all those cases, only the contents of the viewport are affected, and
mouse functionality is preserved. However, the mouse cursor itself is an
interface to the rest of your desktop, not only the web browser.
You seem have a wrong idea about cursor styling: irrelevant to what is
used (a predefined style or a url() image) it applies to the current
Web document only, so any "hastiness" is limited by the browser window
borders.

You must be confusing the issue with an unfamous network of spyware
companies ganging around the CoolWebSearch. One of "candies" they offer
to incline you to install their spyware is a set of nifty cursors and
icons which you can handle from your browser but which work for all
other applications. This issue is irrelvant though to the styling or to
the web-development as such because we have here a .exe file execution
and 3rd party software installation.

Nov 8 '06 #35

P: n/a
In message <jq****************************@40tude.net>, Tue, 7 Nov 2006
23:00:08, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrites
>I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
cuff increases with the distance of the link.

I can see your logic now that you explained it, but as a visitor it
isn't obvious to me.
Demonstration now provided, before first <H2>.

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/- FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Proper <= 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with ">" or "" (SonOfRFC1036)
Nov 8 '06 #36

P: n/a
Els
Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In message <jq****************************@40tude.net>, Tue, 7 Nov 2006
23:00:08, Els <el*********@tiscali.nlwrites
>>I wanted a single character in the source; the amount of "ink" on the
cuff increases with the distance of the link.

I can see your logic now that you explained it, but as a visitor it
isn't obvious to me.

Demonstration now provided, before first <H2>.
:-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
accessible web design: http://locusoptimus.com/
Nov 8 '06 #37

P: n/a
Mon, 06 Nov 2006 08:05:57 +0100 from Stephen Poley
<sb******************@xs4all.nl>:
In terms of a web page I can't think of a useful application for setting
cursor shape. If one is writing an application front-end in Javascript
then it obviously can have uses. However the question then becomes why
it is useful to set the cursor in CSS rather than in Javascript.
Thank you. At least I'm not missing something.

Some features of CSS seem to be there because they're "kewl" rather
than because they're useful.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you
Nov 12 '06 #38

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