Text-links using POST ?

[Trammel]

Hi, Im just about to start developing a new website for personal / friend
use that may be accessed by other people all over the web. I was sitting
thinking through designs for the pages, etc when I came across a thought....

....why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href type
links?

Is there a way to create a text-link that will request a page using POST
instead of GET?

Maybe from within a form or using CSS to modify the behavior of links?

(Please reply to group only - email invalid)

[Andy Dingley]

Trammel wrote:

...why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href type
links?

Why indeed. If you don't want junk, don't include junk

Switching to POST instead of GET sounds like a pointless idea. If GET
really was this broken, then don't you think we'd all stop using it,
then fix it ?

[Chris Morris]

"Trammel" <[e-mail]:

Hi, Im just about to start developing a new website for personal / friend
use that may be accessed by other people all over the web. I was sitting
thinking through designs for the pages, etc when I came across a thought....

...why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href type
links?

Is there a way to create a text-link that will request a page using POST
instead of GET?

Maybe from within a form or using CSS to modify the behavior of links?

It's do-able, somewhat unreliably, with Javascript. *However*, there
are better ways to do this sort of thing (especially since
POST-retrieved pages can't be bookmarked, can't be retrieved by search
engines, generate browser warnings on reload, and have other
undesirable properties for things that you actually want to GET)

What you're really asking is: Can I have neater looking URLs for GET?
The answer is yes - either by modifying the web pages a bit to take
better URLs, or by using mod_rewrite to convert between a nice and an
ugly form [1].

Can you give a bit more details about the page, and about the sort of
URLs you've currently got? Best of all, if development's far enough
ahead, can you give us a URL for it? If not, what about a URL for
something similar?

[1] For example:
RewriteRule ^([a-zA-Z0-9\ -]+)/([0-9]+)/.* /?category=$1&article=$2 [PT]
rewrites a requested URL of the form
/articles/101/writing_HTML
to a server-processed URL of
/?category=articles&article=101

--
Chris

[David Dorward]

Trammel wrote:

Hi, Im just about to start developing a new website for personal / friend
use that may be accessed by other people all over the web. I was sitting
thinking through designs for the pages, etc when I came across a
thought....

...why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href type
links?

Presumably because that "junk" is information needed to access the page, and
is thus needed when bookmarking, or emailing links, etc.

Perhaps you need to consider if you need to put all that data in the URL in
the first place?

Is there a way to create a text-link that will request a page using POST
instead of GET?

No (discounting JavaScript since an anchor that just fires off some
JavaScript isn't really a link).

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[Trammel]

"Chris Morris" <c.********@durham.ac.ukwrote in message
news:87************@dinopsis.dur.ac.uk...

"Trammel" <[e-mail]:

Hi, Im just about to start developing a new website for personal /

friend

use that may be accessed by other people all over the web. I was

sitting

thinking through designs for the pages, etc when I came across a

thought....

...why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href type
links?

Is there a way to create a text-link that will request a page using POST
instead of GET?

Maybe from within a form or using CSS to modify the behavior of links?

It's do-able, somewhat unreliably, with Javascript. *However*, there
are better ways to do this sort of thing (especially since
POST-retrieved pages can't be bookmarked, can't be retrieved by search
engines, generate browser warnings on reload, and have other
undesirable properties for things that you actually want to GET)

What you're really asking is: Can I have neater looking URLs for GET?
The answer is yes - either by modifying the web pages a bit to take
better URLs, or by using mod_rewrite to convert between a nice and an
ugly form [1].

Can you give a bit more details about the page, and about the sort of
URLs you've currently got? Best of all, if development's far enough
ahead, can you give us a URL for it? If not, what about a URL for
something similar?

[snip]

What I was after is preciesly some of the "down sides" that you listed.

I was thinking of a PHP based index page that when bookmarked anywhere would
hold no data and always return to "home" by default. It would also never
change the address from http://www.mysite.com/ in the address section of the
browser by using posts for page requests instead of gets.

Currently the site design loads pages by a GET like: /index.php?p=blah
This leaves the address bar reading: http://www.mysite.com/index.php?p=blah

I dont care if the bookmarked site/page always returns to "home" by default
as this would actually be best seeing as the updates & news are displayed
there.

I dont want to use frames, iframes or flash, etc to stop the address bar
changing though as I wanted something that will be useable in almost all (if
not all) browsers...
....any ideas?

[Trammel]

"Trammel" <[e-mail] in message
news:MW******************@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.u k...

"Chris Morris" <c.********@durham.ac.ukwrote in message
news:87************@dinopsis.dur.ac.uk...

"Trammel" <[e-mail]:

Hi, Im just about to start developing a new website for personal /

friend

use that may be accessed by other people all over the web. I was

sitting

thinking through designs for the pages, etc when I came across a

thought....

>
...why show the visitor loads of junk just because Im using A-href

type

links?
>
Is there a way to create a text-link that will request a page using

POST

instead of GET?
>
Maybe from within a form or using CSS to modify the behavior of links?

It's do-able, somewhat unreliably, with Javascript. *However*, there
are better ways to do this sort of thing (especially since
POST-retrieved pages can't be bookmarked, can't be retrieved by search
engines, generate browser warnings on reload, and have other
undesirable properties for things that you actually want to GET)

What you're really asking is: Can I have neater looking URLs for GET?
The answer is yes - either by modifying the web pages a bit to take
better URLs, or by using mod_rewrite to convert between a nice and an
ugly form [1].

Can you give a bit more details about the page, and about the sort of
URLs you've currently got? Best of all, if development's far enough
ahead, can you give us a URL for it? If not, what about a URL for
something similar?

[snip]

What I was after is preciesly some of the "down sides" that you listed.

I was thinking of a PHP based index page that when bookmarked anywhere

would

hold no data and always return to "home" by default. It would also never
change the address from http://www.mysite.com/ in the address section of

the

browser by using posts for page requests instead of gets.

Currently the site design loads pages by a GET like: /index.php?p=blah
This leaves the address bar reading:

http://www.mysite.com/index.php?p=blah

>
I dont care if the bookmarked site/page always returns to "home" by

default

as this would actually be best seeing as the updates & news are displayed
there.

I dont want to use frames, iframes or flash, etc to stop the address bar
changing though as I wanted something that will be useable in almost all

(if

not all) browsers...
...any ideas?

....without using Javascript (as it could be turned off)...
....and without using frames as you would still see the parameters in status
bar.

[Darin McGrew]

Trammel <[e-mail]:

I was thinking of a PHP based index page that when bookmarked anywhere would
hold no data and always return to "home" by default. It would also never
change the address from http://www.mysite.com/ in the address section of the

FWIW, when I bookmark something, and the bookmark doesn't take me back to
whatever it was that I bookmarked, then I delete the bookmark. And I no
longer link to (or otherwise refer others to) whatever the resource was.

See also http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020303.html
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"When strong encryption is outlawed, only outlaws jvyy hfr fgebat rapelcgvba."

[Trammel]

"Darin McGrew" <mc****@stanfordalumni.orgwrote in message
news:ee**********@blue.rahul.net...

Trammel <[e-mail]:

I was thinking of a PHP based index page that when bookmarked anywhere

would

hold no data and always return to "home" by default. It would also

never

change the address from http://www.mysite.com/ in the address section of

the

>
FWIW, when I bookmark something, and the bookmark doesn't take me back to
whatever it was that I bookmarked, then I delete the bookmark. And I no
longer link to (or otherwise refer others to) whatever the resource was.

See also http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020303.html

Thank you for your views (and everyone elses views) on what makes a good
website. They are appreciated and I will keep them in mind if/when I
develop a website that needs to be search-engine friendly and allow "random"
users to surf it.

The information I am after is wether what I asked is possible or not... and
if so, how it could be done. (Not if its good practice or acceptable by
others to do so) ...consider it a logic problem if you will ;)

The requirements:
* Address bar never changes from: http://www.mysite.com/
* No use of Flash, Javascript or others that may be turned off
* No using frames, etc as the "link" can be viewed in status bar when
hovered.
* Use of POST would be beneficial & may be the only method... but can POST
be used and still look like a text link?

There are no "public" pages that will be viewable to a search-engine, the
site should never be indexed by them but the odd rouge spider might not
check the robots file if someone links the website... and index the one page
it has access to... (a page requesting a username and password... with no
logos or text saying what the website is for).

The website does not allow direct access to pages using bookmarks as it
contains private information requiring you to sign-in each time you visit
the site (no cookies are used either incase they are off).

[Trammel]

"Trammel" <[e-mail] in message
news:rn******************@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.u k...

"Darin McGrew" <mc****@stanfordalumni.orgwrote in message
news:ee**********@blue.rahul.net...

Trammel <[e-mail]:

I was thinking of a PHP based index page that when bookmarked anywhere

would

hold no data and always return to "home" by default. It would also

never

change the address from http://www.mysite.com/ in the address section

of

the

FWIW, when I bookmark something, and the bookmark doesn't take me back

to

whatever it was that I bookmarked, then I delete the bookmark. And I no
longer link to (or otherwise refer others to) whatever the resource was.

See also http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20020303.html

Thank you for your views (and everyone elses views) on what makes a good
website. They are appreciated and I will keep them in mind if/when I
develop a website that needs to be search-engine friendly and allow

"random"

users to surf it.

The information I am after is wether what I asked is possible or not...

and

if so, how it could be done. (Not if its good practice or acceptable by
others to do so) ...consider it a logic problem if you will ;)

The requirements:
* Address bar never changes from: http://www.mysite.com/
* No use of Flash, Javascript or others that may be turned off
* No using frames, etc as the "link" can be viewed in status bar when
hovered.
* Use of POST would be beneficial & may be the only method... but can POST
be used and still look like a text link?

There are no "public" pages that will be viewable to a search-engine, the
site should never be indexed by them but the odd rouge spider might not
check the robots file if someone links the website... and index the one

page

it has access to... (a page requesting a username and password... with no
logos or text saying what the website is for).

The website does not allow direct access to pages using bookmarks as it
contains private information requiring you to sign-in each time you visit
the site (no cookies are used either incase they are off).

Im guessing by the lack of replies that this has everyone else stumped too?
I tried to think of a way to do it but couldnt think of one either :-/

[Darin McGrew]

Trammel <[e-mail]:

>The requirements:
* Address bar never changes from: http://www.mysite.com/
* No use of Flash, Javascript or others that may be turned off
* No using frames, etc as the "link" can be viewed in status bar when
hovered.
* Use of POST would be beneficial & may be the only method... but can POST
be used and still look like a text link?

Trammel <[e-mail]:

Im guessing by the lack of replies that this has everyone else stumped too?
I tried to think of a way to do it but couldnt think of one either :-/

You've painted yourself into a corner. You can't have everything you want:
the web doesn't work that way. So where do you want to compromise?

If you give up on using normal links, then you can use form submissions and
METHOD="post" for your navigation. Your site will be opaque to search
engines, links, etc., but you don't seem to care. You might even be able to
use CSS to style the submit buttons to look like links in some browsers.
ciwa.stylesheets is right next door.

If you give up on keeping the URL static, then you can use normal links.

If you give up on accessibility, then you can use links that trigger
JavaScript to send requests via METHOD="post". Of course, your site
navigation won't work when JavaScript is disabled/unavailable.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"I used to have a handle on life, but it broke."

[James A. Donald]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:27:35 GMT, "Trammel" <[e-mail]:

The website does not allow direct access to pages using bookmarks as it
contains private information requiring you to sign-in each time you visit
the site (no cookies are used either incase they are off).

If you are going to do without cookies, here is how: Successful login
results in a web page of links to the actual data. These links
contain a transient access code, which was generated upon a successful
login.
http://my_secret_site.com/actual_pag...8628298O897O99

When the user logs out or times out, the transient access code is
deleted.

When a user attempts to access a page with an invalid access code, he
gets the login page.
--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald