About font sizes

[deko]

As I understand it, most browser manufacturers have agreed on 16px for their
default font size.

So, this should be an accurate conversion for percentages:

px %

16 = 100
14 = 87.5
13 = 81.25
12 = 75
10 = 62.5

I assume it's better to stick to a percentage that will yield a round number -
rather than using something like 90% to get 14.4. A browser will just round up
or down to a font size it can display, correct?

As for em, am I correct in saying 1em = 16px?

Does that mean 1.2em is 19.2px (rounded by the browser to 19px - if the default
size is 16)?

[Jukka K. Korpela]

deko <de**@nospam.com> scripsit:

You may already know that Microsoft's
new IE 7 does NOT have a "default font size" feature.
What on &planet; are you talking about? IE 7, which currently exists as beta
only, has as good and as poor font size control as IE 6. (Zooming is nice,
but a completely different issue.)
These sizes [defined in pixels by author] are entirely legible for the
vast majority of
readers.
One size fits all, you mean?
If someone has a vision problem (or just wants to see
larger text), adjustments can be made using the browser.
Sizes defined in pixels cannot be adjusted, except by changing the size of a
pixel. Browsers that behave differently behave against CSS specifications.
Such sizes can be _overridden_ of course, but this means that all size
differences in author style sheet are lost.
So who
cares if font sizes are designated in px or percent? Both are
adjustable.

The px unit denotes a pixel. Don't you know what a pixel is? (It has
somewhat different meanings in common IT language and in CSS terminology,
but in either meaning, it is by essence not adjustable the way you imply.)

--
Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

[deko]

> So go back to DTP. The web is obviously not for you.

I surfed around a number of mainstream sites and looked at their stylesheets -
all but one had px-designated font sizes. That's a small sample, but I think
it's safe to assume the majority of designers are using, and will continue to
use, px-sized fonts - just as the majority of users will not adjust their
default font size.

The web is not only for me, it is me. The percentage-size font police are the
ones out of step with reality.

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, deko
<de**@nospam.com> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets:

I surfed around a number of mainstream sites and looked at their stylesheets -
all but one had px-designated font sizes.

Shock! Horror! Lots of web sites have bad coding! Who would have
thought?

*sigh*

As Alan (Flavell) said recently in ciwah, 'the saying about "billions of
flies can't be wrong" comes unappetisingly to mind'.

--
Mark Parnell
My Usenet is improved; yours could be too:
http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

deko wrote:

In time, I expect percentage-based font-sizing to become a thing of the past.

You're probably right. I don't remember the Enterprise's holodeck ever
asking me for a default font size.

However, in this century's web, you're still wrong.

--
-bts
-Warning: I brake for lawn deer

[Warren Sarle]

In article <10****************@markparnell.com.au>,
Mark Parnell <we*******@clarkecomputers.com.au> writes:

The only argument against using px-sized fonts is that of preference.

That they aren't relative to the user's preference, yes. And that they
aren't resizable (without delving into obscure accessibility settings)
in IE.

You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes. What's so obscure about that?

Granted, most web pages become garbled when you do this, but that's
the fault of incompetent web designers.
--

Warren S. Sarle SAS Institute Inc. The opinions expressed here
sa****@unx.sas.com SAS Campus Drive are mine and not necessarily
[phone] Cary, NC 27513, USA those of SAS Institute.

[Andreas Prilop]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Warren Sarle wrote:

You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes. What's so obscure about that?

It is poor! It's like American clothing sizes: You can only
choose between S, M, L, XL.

Can you imagine a word processor or page layout program that
gives the user a choice between S, M, L, XL for font size?

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Warren Sarle wrote:

In article <10****************@markparnell.com.au>,
Mark Parnell <we*******@clarkecomputers.com.au> writes:

The only argument against using px-sized fonts is that of
preference.
That they aren't relative to the user's preference, yes. And that
they aren't resizable (without delving into obscure accessibility
settings) in IE.

You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes. What's so obscure about that?

Text will not resize in IE if the author assigned px (or pt) sizes.
Granted, most web pages become garbled when you do this, but that's
the fault of incompetent web designers.

...as is using px. :-)

--
-bts
-Warning: I brake for lawn deer

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Warren Sarle wrote:

In article <10****************@markparnell.com.au>,
Mark Parnell <we*******@clarkecomputers.com.au> writes:

The only argument against using px-sized fonts is that of
preference.
That they aren't relative to the user's preference, yes. And that
they aren't resizable (without delving into obscure accessibility
settings) in IE.

You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes.

All of which will be the same size, if the author has already set the
size in px units.
What's so obscure about that?

I might ask you the same question. You quoted the clear statement of
the truth:

they aren't resizable (without delving into obscure accessibility
settings) in IE.

, and you immediately started saying the opposite. Not good.

I suppose you wouldn't care to actually *try* it, hmmm?

[Warren Sarle]

"Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@physics.gla.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pi*******************************@ppepc87.ph. gla.ac.uk...

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Warren Sarle wrote:

...
You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes.
All of which will be the same size, if the author has already set the
size in px units.

No, they won't, regardless of what units are used in the CSS.
I suppose you wouldn't care to actually *try* it, hmmm?

I use that feature in IE6 all the time. I use the medium setting for most
pages and switch to smaller or smallest for pages that are horribly
garbled at medium.

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Warren Sarle
<sa****@unx.sas.com> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets:

I use that feature in IE6 all the time. I use the medium setting for most
pages and switch to smaller or smallest for pages that are horribly
garbled at medium.

If it works on pages where the font sizes have been specified in px,
then at some point you must have delved into the accessibility options I
mentioned. It is well documented (and easily tested) that IE does *not*
resize fonts sized in px, unless you tell it to "Ignore font sizes
specified in web pages" (under Tools>Internet Options>Accessibility).
This setting is off by default.

--
Mark Parnell
My Usenet is improved; yours could be too:
http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Warren Sarle wrote:

"Alan J. Flavell" <fl*****@physics.gla.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pi*******************************@ppepc87.ph. gla.ac.uk...

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006, Warren Sarle wrote:

...
You can click an icon on the IE toolbar and choose among five
different font sizes.

All of which will be the same size, if the author has already set
the size in px units.

No, they won't, regardless of what units are used in the CSS.

I suppose you wouldn't care to actually *try* it, hmmm?

I use that feature in IE6 all the time. I use the medium setting for
most pages and switch to smaller or smallest for pages that are
horribly garbled at medium.

With your IE set at Medium, have a look at this page:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html

and change your IE size from Medium to Largest, then report back what
happened to the text in the blue box to the right.

--
-bts
-Warning: I brake for lawn deer