Using a newreader

[Trevor L.]

How do I use a newsreader (e.g. Outlook Express) to read this forum.

I currently use it (OE) for Microsoft newsgroups but how do I set it up
for this one

[Barbara de Zoete]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:53:30 +0200, Trevor L. <ta****@homemail.com.au>
wrote:

How do I use a newsreader (e.g. Outlook Express)
OE is *not* a newsreader at all. It is an e-mail client. To get yourself a
usenet news client, download and install one of these:
- Forte Agent,
- Thinderbird,
- Opera (M2)
to read this forum.
This is not a forum. It is a newsgroup in usenet. Google for what those
are, or look here:
<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet>
<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup>
I currently use it (OE) for Microsoft newsgroups but how do I set it up
for this one

Get yourself a proper usenet newsclient first. Then set it up to use a
news server. Get details from your Internet Service Provider on what those
settings are, or get an account with a newsserver like news.individual.net
(not entirely free) if your ISP doesn't provide newsgroups. Download the
list of available newsgroups. Select those you want to participate in (or
just want to read). Et voila, you're done.
Since you currently use Google Groups to participate here, please read
<URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/> before replying.
--
______PretLetters:
| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |

[frederick]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:53:30 +0200, Trevor L. <ta****@homemail.com.au>
wrote:

How do I use a newsreader (e.g. Outlook Express)
OE is *not* a newsreader at all. It is an e-mail client. To get yourself a
usenet news client, download and install one of these:
- Forte Agent,
- Thinderbird,
- Opera (M2)

Assuming that you actually meant "Thunderbird", how can you assert it
to be a news client whilst denying the same of "Outlook Express"? Is
this Microsoft-bashing just for the sake of it?! Either they're both
news clients, or neither are. FWIW, I'd say that they were roughly as
bad as each other, just in different ways...

The OP may find this newsgroup of use:
<news:news.software.readers>
or via Google Groups:
<http://groups.google.com/group/news.software.readers>

Personally, I used to recommend 40tude Dialog, although it doesn't seem
to be under active development at the moment. I never could get on
with Forté Agent, but it's probably the most widely used "proper"
newsreader, either in the basic free version or the more advanced
paid-for edition.
Since you currently use Google Groups to participate here, please read
<URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/> before replying.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?!
--
AGw.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Personally, I used to recommend 40tude Dialog, although it doesn't
seem to be under active development at the moment.

It's still waaay better than Google Groups! ;-)

--
-bts
-Warning: I brake for lawn deer

[Ed Mullen]

Trevor L. wrote:

How do I use a newsreader (e.g. Outlook Express) to read this forum.

I currently use it (OE) for Microsoft newsgroups but how do I set it up
for this one

I presume the MS groups you refer to are on news.microsoft.com. That is
a public news server run by MS for its own groups. To access general
Usenet groups you need to subscribe to a news server. Your ISP may
provide one as part of your Internet access subscription. If not you'll
need to find a free one or pay for a subscription to one such as
Giganews. Once you determine which you're using you can find out the
parameters needed to set up an account in OE or any other newsreader.
Typically you'll need:

NNTP Server name (in my case, news.comcast.net)
Port number used (usually 119)
Whether or not a secure connection is required (aka SSL)
Whether or not authentication is required
Your logon and password given you by the service provider

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net

[frederick]

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Personally, I used to recommend 40tude Dialog, although it doesn't
seem to be under active development at the moment.

It's still waaay better than Google Groups! ;-)

The world's longest-running beta programme! {rolls eyes}

As a confirmed Firefox user, I think it's a shame that Thunderbird
doesn't come up to scratch as a newsreader. IMHO, YMMV, etc, etc.
--
AGw.

[Sherm Pendley]

"Barbara de Zoete" <tr******@pretletters.net> writes:

OE is *not* a newsreader at all. It is an e-mail client.

Huh? OE is most certainly a news client. It's just a horribly bad one. ;-)

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org

[Sherm Pendley]

Ed Mullen <[e-mail]> writes:

I presume the MS groups you refer to are on news.microsoft.com. That
is a public news server run by MS for its own groups. To access
general Usenet groups you need to subscribe to a news server. Your
ISP may provide one as part of your Internet access subscription. If
not you'll need to find a free one or pay for a subscription to one
such as Giganews.

BTW, many public servers carry the microsoft.* groups as well. So you
probably won't have to go to the trouble of switching back and forth
between servers.

sherm--

--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:53:30 +0200, Trevor L.
<ta****@homemail.com.au> wrote:

How do I use a newsreader (e.g. Outlook Express)
OE is *not* a newsreader at all.

I think you're somewhat over-stating the case here!

http://www.xs4all.nl/~js/gnksa/gnksa-evaluations.html

It certainly rated /evaluation/ as a newsreader, even if it failed.

As usual with anything from the same house, its default settings
qualify not only for an Anti Social Behaviour Order for widespread
failure to respect the netiquette, but also as a potential security
hazard for its own user.

But those who are sufficiently devoted to using software from that
house have published various recipes by which it can be tamed
(OEquotefix etc.), and I've seen some postings done with it which I
couldn't really fault, even if most of its users seem to be at fault.
It is an e-mail client.
Is it? I suspect it has at least as many faults as an Internet mail
client, as it has as an NNTP client.
To get yourself a
usenet news client, download and install one of these:
- Forte Agent,
Interestingly, that also failed the stringent criteria of the GNKSA...
(As did PINE...).
- Thinderbird,

Which looks as if it would also fail, based on the fact that the GNKSA
failed Mozilla.

I would go along with your recommendation to get a better news client
than OE: only the more dedicated/informed/sophisticated users seem to
be able to tame it. But it's a question of scale, really, according
to the GNKSA ratings.

I *believe* I'm capable of making netiquette-conforming postings with
PINE, despite it failing the gnksa ratings. But it's a heads-up to be
reminded that it fails their test criteria. In fact, older versions
of OE got a better score than PINE (which I find rather alarming[1]),
but it looks as if OE got worse, version by version.

funny old world.

[1] Looking at the detailed tests, I think I could refute at least
some of their failure reports, but I don't want to be accused of
special pleading, so I'll stop there.

[Ed Mullen]

Alan J. Flavell wrote:

[1] Looking at the detailed tests, I think I could refute at least
some of their failure reports, but I don't want to be accused of
special pleading, so I'll stop there.

Uh, that page was last updated in July 2002! =-O

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, Ed Mullen wrote:

[1] Looking at the detailed tests, I think I could refute at least
some of their failure reports, but I don't want to be accused of
special pleading, so I'll stop there.

Uh, that page was last updated in July 2002! =-O

True, but would you say the situation has substantively changed since
then?

As it showed: OE (at least in its default reviewed configuration) was
getting worse with time. Do you have any indication that it got
better - as measured by their criteria - afterwards?

At least some of the other software developers do their best to fix
their deviations from published specifications and guidelines, instead
of just documenting the discrepant behaviour as a feature.

[frederick]

Ed Mullen wrote:

Uh, that page was last updated in July 2002! =-O

Has OE actually been signficantly revised since then, though? Hasn't
it been in the same development limbo as IE?

[Ed Mullen]

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Uh, that page was last updated in July 2002! =-O

Has OE actually been signficantly revised since then, though? Hasn't
it been in the same development limbo as IE?

No, nothing major in feature changes but they have constantly patched
the security holes as they've been found. It and IE are nowhere near
the big problem they were two years ago, let alone four. Not saying
they're up-to-date nor great products. I have rarely used either one
other than for comparison and testing.

I'm just not impressed with out-of-date test results. In fact, that
whole site is so woefully aged it has little or no relevance to the real
world. Take a look at the work in progress page:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~js/gnksa/in-progress.txt

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net

[frederick]

Ed Mullen wrote:

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Has OE actually been signficantly revised since then, though? Hasn't
it been in the same development limbo as IE?
No, nothing major in feature changes but they have constantly patched
the security holes as they've been found. It and IE are nowhere near
the big problem they were two years ago, let alone four. Not saying
they're up-to-date nor great products. I have rarely used either one
other than for comparison and testing.

Noted.

I can dimly recall using OE for about five minutes some time during the
last couple of years to help identify a problem with logging onto my
newsserver, but that's about it! Browser use is of course a different
kettle of fish.
I'm just not impressed with out-of-date test results. In fact, that
whole site is so woefully aged it has little or no relevance to the real
world. Take a look at the work in progress page:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~js/gnksa/in-progress.txt

Hm. Is it possible that their work-in-progress page isn't up-to-date?

I'll freely admit to being aware of the site's existence, but that's
about it.
--
AGw.

[Ed Mullen]

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

fr*******@southernskies.co.uk wrote:

Has OE actually been signficantly revised since then, though? Hasn't
it been in the same development limbo as IE?

No, nothing major in feature changes but they have constantly patched
the security holes as they've been found. It and IE are nowhere near
the big problem they were two years ago, let alone four. Not saying
they're up-to-date nor great products. I have rarely used either one
other than for comparison and testing.

Noted.

I can dimly recall using OE for about five minutes some time during the
last couple of years to help identify a problem with logging onto my
newsserver, but that's about it! Browser use is of course a different
kettle of fish.

I'm just not impressed with out-of-date test results. In fact, that
whole site is so woefully aged it has little or no relevance to the real
world. Take a look at the work in progress page:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~js/gnksa/in-progress.txt

Hm. Is it possible that their work-in-progress page isn't up-to-date?

I'll freely admit to being aware of the site's existence, but that's
about it.

I'd never heard of it until Alan mentioned it. Which doesn't mean
anything in itself. But I did go look at it and backtracked to the home
page http://www.gnksa.org/ which was last modified in Feb. 2001. Hardly
a confidence-inspiring discovery.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
http://mozilla.edmullen.net
http://abington.edmullen.net

[frederick]

Ed Mullen wrote:

I'd never heard of it until Alan mentioned it. Which doesn't mean
anything in itself. But I did go look at it and backtracked to the home
page http://www.gnksa.org/ which was last modified in Feb. 2001. Hardly
a confidence-inspiring discovery.

The eternal curse of the Internet: publish in haste, maintain at
leisure... or not at all!
--
AGw.

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006, Ed Mullen wrote:

I'd never heard of it until Alan mentioned it. Which doesn't mean
anything in itself. But I did go look at it and backtracked to the
home page http://www.gnksa.org/ which was last modified in Feb.
2001.
If you know of a better review of news client adherence to good
practice, then go right ahead and speak out. Meantime I guess this is
the best that we have.
Hardly a confidence-inspiring discovery.

Speaking merely as an observer with no particular axe to grind, it's
disappointing that so much detailed work went into it at one time and
now it seems it's been left to fester. But the netiquette has been
developed over a couple of decades, and the principles of
interpersonal communication for much longer. Maybe this or that
detail is now different, but the principles still apply, and usenet
would be a more effective discussion forum if more of its participants
would adhere to them. Which reminds me, I must stop getting
side-tracked into discussions of news clients and netiquette on
newsgroups that have nothing whatsoever to do with such matters.
Mea culpa!!!

--

Nothing good has ever come of putting physicists and computer people in
the same room. - Joseph DeMartino (seen on a.h.b-o-u)

[Dr John Stockton]

JRS: In article <m2************@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>, dated
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:32:03 remote, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.auth
oring.stylesheets, Sherm Pendley <sh***@dot-app.org> posted :

BTW, many public servers carry the microsoft.* groups as well. So you
probably won't have to go to the trouble of switching back and forth
between servers.

There is no such trouble with a well-chosen newsreader.

Mine has a list of news servers, has an algorithm for associating
subscribed groups with servers, and collects from more than one server
simultaneously. (I use two servers; for more than some number of
connections N (which may be 2), IIRC it opens N connections first, then
another each time one finishes.)

--
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