Span Class

[Dan]

Newbie question...

Is it better coding to use <span class=bold>...</span> around text to
which I want to apply an inline bold style rather than <b>... </b> ?

If so, why?

[Barbara de Zoete]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:45:03 +0100, Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you already know, but before discussing any further: are you
familiar with the contents of
<URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/> Please take note
of that bit. Thanks, now to your question:

Newbie question...
That's okay, we all started out that way. :-)
Is it better coding to use <span class=bold>...</span> around text to
which I want to apply an inline bold style rather than <b>... </b> ?

If so, why?

See, you ask the very good questions. You want to know why :-)

Well, before puting anything around text to which you want to apply an
inline bold style, ask yourself why you want to do that? If it is to give
the bit emphasis, there are two ways to accomplish that:

<p>If you want <em>this part to have emphasis</em>, you just gave it that.
If you want <strong>stronger emphasis</stronger>, this is what to use.</p>

In many graphical browsers emphasis gets rendered italic and strong
emphasis gets rendered bold.
See also <URL:http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-EM> for
other inline elements that give meaning to a bit of text. There's bound to
be one or two you could use for your purposes.

And if it renderes differently from what you need, well, that's where the
stylesheets come in (see, back on topic for this group). With a simple

em {
font-style:normal;
font-weight:bold; }

or

strong {
font-style:italic;
font-weight:normal; }

you can reverse the standard rendering of those two :-) Think of what else
you can do that way.

So, in short: first know the why, the very question you ask. Why do you
want a specific piece of text to stand out, to be different. Mark it up as
such, and let CSS take care of the looks for you.
--
______PretLetters:
| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |

[Dan]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:45:03 +0100, Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you already know, but before discussing any further: are you
familiar with the contents of
<URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/> Please take note
of that bit. Thanks, now to your question:

Well, before puting anything around text to which you want to apply an
inline bold style, ask yourself why you want to do that? If it is to give
the bit emphasis, there are two ways to accomplish that:
Thanks for asking. Yes, my purpose in this case is to emphasize text.

<p>If you want <em>this part to have emphasis</em>, you just gave it that.
If you want <strong>stronger emphasis</stronger>, this is what to use.</p>

In many graphical browsers emphasis gets rendered italic and strong
emphasis gets rendered bold.
See also <URL:http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-EM> for
other inline elements that give meaning to a bit of text. There's bound to
be one or two you could use for your purposes.

And if it renderes differently from what you need, well, that's where the
stylesheets come in (see, back on topic for this group). With a simple

em {
font-style:normal;
font-weight:bold; }

or

strong {
font-style:italic;
font-weight:normal; }

you can reverse the standard rendering of those two :-) Think of what else
you can do that way.

Thanks so much. This is extremely informative. Also, I assume I should
use <em> and <strong> over <i> and <b> because the latter tags are not
necessarily compatible with speech readers? Are <b> and <i> tags
actually deprecated though?

Thanks again,
Dan

[Dan]

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:45:03 +0100, Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you already know, but before discussing any further: are you
familiar with the contents of
<URL:http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/> Please take note
of that bit. Thanks, now to your question:

Well, before puting anything around text to which you want to apply an
inline bold style, ask yourself why you want to do that? If it is to give
the bit emphasis, there are two ways to accomplish that:
Thanks for asking. Yes, my purpose in this case is to emphasize text.

<p>If you want <em>this part to have emphasis</em>, you just gave it that.
If you want <strong>stronger emphasis</stronger>, this is what to use.</p> .... em {
font-style:normal;
font-weight:bold; }

or

strong {
font-style:italic;
font-weight:normal; }

you can reverse the standard rendering of those two :-) Think of what else
you can do that way.

Thanks so much. This is extremely informative. Also, I assume I should
use <em> and <strong> over <i> and <b> because the latter tags are not
necessarily compatible with speech readers? Are <b> and <i> tags
actually deprecated though?

Thanks again,
Dan

[Darin McGrew]

Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Also, I assume I should use <em> and <strong> over <i> and <b> because
the latter tags are not necessarily compatible with speech readers?
If the text is emphasized or strongly emphasized, then use the EM or STRONG
elements. If there is some other reason to use italics or boldface, then
use something other than EM or STRONG.

Sometimes the I and B elements are the most appropriate markup. Examples
can be found at http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/ht...ntstyle/i.html
and http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/ht...ntstyle/b.html
Are <b> and <i> tags actually deprecated though?

No, not at all.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"I can take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once."

[Barbara de Zoete]

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:16:55 +0100, Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 19:45:03 +0100, Dan <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, before puting anything around text to which you want to apply an
inline bold style, ask yourself why you want to do that? If it is to
give
the bit emphasis, there are two ways to accomplish that:
Thanks for asking. Yes, my purpose in this case is to emphasize text.

[ on using <em> and <stong> combined with CSS to set styles if needed ]
Thanks so much. This is extremely informative. Also, I assume I should
use <em> and <strong> over <i> and <b> because the latter tags are not
necessarily compatible with speech readers?
To be honest with you, I don't know what screen readers, aural browsers
and the like, do with em, strong, i or b. For me it has to do more with
the way I think. I like to make clear what the stuff is I put in my pages.
Clear for anything and anyone that asks for their contents. I 'think
structure and semantics'. I'm not sure when that started to happen :-)
Are <b> and <i> tags
actually deprecated though?

Depends on what doctype you intend to use, but if you stick with
HTML4.01Strict, no, not even with that doctype they are IIRC. See
<URL:http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/index/elements.html> to find out which
elements are and are not.
--
______PretLetters:
| weblog | http://www.pretletters.net/weblog/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://www.pretletters.net/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://www.pretletters.net/html/vliegen.html |

[Stephen Poley]

On 2 Mar 2006 11:17:58 -0800, "Dan" <te*******@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks so much. This is extremely informative. Also, I assume I should
use <em> and <strong> over <i> and <b> because the latter tags are not
necessarily compatible with speech readers? Are <b> and <i> tags
actually deprecated though?

No. A good use of <i> is for matters such as names of ships and
scientific names of animals, which are normally italicised in print, but
the italics do not in this case imply emphasis.

--
Stephen Poley

http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/

[Gus Richter]

Dan wrote:

Newbie question...

Is it better coding to use <span class=bold>...</span> around text to
which I want to apply an inline bold style rather than <b>... </b> ?

If so, why?

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#h-15.2

15.2 Fonts
The following HTML elements specify font information. Although they are
not all deprecated, *their use is discouraged in favor of style sheets*.

15.2.1 Font style elements: the TT, I, B, BIG, SMALL, STRIKE, S, and U
elements

--
Gus

[Chris Beall]

Dan wrote:

Newbie question...

Is it better coding to use <span class=bold>...</span> around text to
which I want to apply an inline bold style rather than <b>... </b> ?

If so, why?

The question you should ask yourself is 'why bold'? Take that answer,
scrunch it into a word or two, and make that the class name.

If you use <b>, then that text will always and forever be bold.
If you use <span class="bold">, you can style the text any way you like,
but if you later style it as something else, like italic, the class name
will no longer match the styling and you will become confused.
If you use <span class="thereasonIwantedtostylethis">, then you can
style it any way you want and change your mind later without befuddling
yourself.

Net: Assign class names based on semantics, then style the class as you
like.

Chris Beall

[Thomas Mlynarczyk]

Also sprach Stephen Poley:

A good use of <i> is for matters such as names of ships and
scientific names of animals, which are normally italicised in print,
but the italics do not in this case imply emphasis.

I thought that's what <cite> was for:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/ht...rase/cite.html

[Steve Pugh]

"Thomas Mlynarczyk" <bl*************@hotmail.com> wrote:

Also sprach Stephen Poley:

A good use of <i> is for matters such as names of ships and
scientific names of animals, which are normally italicised in print,
but the italics do not in this case imply emphasis.

I thought that's what <cite> was for:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/ht...rase/cite.html

Where did the idea that ship names are classed as citations come from?
It doesn't seem at all logical to me.

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-CITE
"Contains a citation or a reference to other sources."

Steve
--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net> <http://steve.pugh.net/>

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006, Thomas Mlynarczyk wrote:

Also sprach Stephen Poley:

A good use of <i> is for matters such as names of ships and
scientific names of animals, which are normally italicised in print,
but the italics do not in this case imply emphasis.

I thought that's what <cite> was for:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/ht...rase/cite.html

Oh dear, typical muddle from the W3C. "Since CITE is a structural
element, it carries meaning". So: isn't it important to stick to that
meaning?

They suggest in their rambling text that CITE could be used for the
names of ships, and then they give an example of it being used *for
the name of a movie*, which just happens to be "Titanic". I'd have to
accuse whoever wrote that rambling text of making a category error,
right there.

I'd say the latter usage *is* appropriate (it really is a citation -
to a *movie*, which in this case just happens to be named for a
particular ship); I can't see anything in the dictionary - whether
from general usage or from technical usage - which would even remotely
justify calling the name of a ship a "citation". YMMV and IMHO.

At least they've given no suggestion of (mis)using it to mark up a
genus or species name. For which I'd follow Stephen Poley's advice,
and use <i> as the HTML markup, with a plausibly-chosen class name to
distinguish it (class="genus" or class="species" etc.).