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large graphic elements troubles in konqueror?

I've been using this technique for around a year
to create "decorated" tabs and round cornered
boxes (windows?)

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/

Everything worked fine (all the way from MacOs09, IE5
to Firefox).

Because our product sometimes puts large
(SQL) results sets up, our users sometimes
found that the graphics weren't big
enough.

So I made the graphics 2560 wide (the new Mac display)
by 3500 pixels deep (all browsers scroll)

Everything seemed fine, except that it appears
that Konqueror isn't enjoying this.
The display is correct, but very slow.

I will readily admit that using a 2560x3500 graphic
to put round corners on a block does seem overkill :-)

Has anybody else experienced this?

BugBear
Feb 8 '06 #1
19 1365
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Everything seemed fine, except that it appears
that Konqueror isn't enjoying this.
The display is correct, but very slow.

I will readily admit that using a 2560x3500 graphic
to put round corners on a block does seem overkill :-)


Use a graphics viewer to view the properties of this (these) image(s),
look for something like "uncompressed size". Then consider that this
amount of data needs to be pumped around by the graphics processor with
every movement of the content in the viewport.

Then consider systems with limited resources like mobile devices and not
so recent desktop systems.

--
Spartanicus
Feb 8 '06 #2
VK

bugbear wrote:
I've been using this technique for around a year
to create "decorated" tabs and round cornered
boxes (windows?)

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/

Everything worked fine (all the way from MacOs09, IE5
to Firefox).

Because our product sometimes puts large
(SQL) results sets up, our users sometimes
found that the graphics weren't big
enough.

So I made the graphics 2560 wide (the new Mac display)
by 3500 pixels deep (all browsers scroll)

Everything seemed fine, except that it appears
that Konqueror isn't enjoying this.
The display is correct, but very slow.

I will readily admit that using a 2560x3500 graphic
to put round corners on a block does seem overkill :-)


Taking into account that images are converted back to pixel-by-pixel
form, such image takes ~26Mb to be displayed in the browser window with
a normal color depth.
~26Mb RAM for rounded corners is not an overkill - it is a superkill
:-)
(add 1/4 of this size at the top if you're using PNG image) That
computer may simply have lesser RAM than others (?)

Feb 8 '06 #3
Spartanicus wrote:
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

Everything seemed fine, except that it appears
that Konqueror isn't enjoying this.
The display is correct, but very slow.

I will readily admit that using a 2560x3500 graphic
to put round corners on a block does seem overkill :-)

Use a graphics viewer to view the properties of this (these) image(s),
look for something like "uncompressed size". Then consider that this
amount of data needs to be pumped around by the graphics processor with
every movement of the content in the viewport.


The software would need to be dumb to do that.
Simple "Bounding box" intersection clipping
would greatly reduce the sizeof the data transfer.

Then consider systems with limited resources like mobile devices and not
so recent desktop systems.


Our "imposed" machine/browser spec for our customer
is fairly recent and fairly powerful.

My design is not a website, but a web-delivered app
in a niche market.

BugBear
Feb 8 '06 #4
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Use a graphics viewer to view the properties of this (these) image(s),
look for something like "uncompressed size". Then consider that this
amount of data needs to be pumped around by the graphics processor with
every movement of the content in the viewport.


The software would need to be dumb to do that.
Simple "Bounding box" intersection clipping
would greatly reduce the sizeof the data transfer.


I'll admit that I don't know what actually happens on the hardware
level, but observation has taught me that graphics that expand to
a large memory footprint typically cause things like browser scrolling
to become very sluggish even on modern desktop systems, ignore that at
your peril.
Then consider systems with limited resources like mobile devices and not
so recent desktop systems.


Our "imposed" machine/browser spec for our customer
is fairly recent and fairly powerful.

My design is not a website, but a web-delivered app
in a niche market.


Questions in this group are assumed to pertain to content accessible to
the general public (note the "World" and "Wide" part of the www
abbreviation). In fact questions pertaining to other situations are
off-topic here.

--
Spartanicus
Feb 8 '06 #5
Spartanicus wrote:
The software would need to be dumb to do that.
Simple "Bounding box" intersection clipping
would greatly reduce the sizeof the data transfer.

I'll admit that I don't know what actually happens on the hardware
level,


The technique I mentioned is normally done
in the windowing software.
but observation has taught me that graphics that expand to
a large memory footprint typically cause things like browser scrolling
to become very sluggish even on modern desktop systems, ignore that at
your peril.


That was my question :-)
Then consider systems with limited resources like mobile devices and not
so recent desktop systems.


Our "imposed" machine/browser spec for our customer
is fairly recent and fairly powerful.

My design is not a website, but a web-delivered app
in a niche market.

Questions in this group are assumed to pertain to content accessible to
the general public (note the "World" and "Wide" part of the www
abbreviation). In fact questions pertaining to other situations are
off-topic here.


I'm using stylesheets on HTML content viewed with browsers and
I'm off topic?

BugBear
Feb 10 '06 #6
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
My design is not a website, but a web-delivered app
in a niche market.


Questions in this group are assumed to pertain to content accessible to
the general public (note the "World" and "Wide" part of the www
abbreviation). In fact questions pertaining to other situations are
off-topic here.


I'm using stylesheets on HTML content viewed with browsers and
I'm off topic?


Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.

--
Spartanicus
Feb 10 '06 #7
Spartanicus wrote:
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

My design is not a website, but a web-delivered app
in a niche market.

Questions in this group are assumed to pertain to content accessible to
the general public (note the "World" and "Wide" part of the www
abbreviation). In fact questions pertaining to other situations are
off-topic here.


I'm using stylesheets on HTML content viewed with browsers and
I'm off topic?

Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


I see no such emphasis in the FAQ that no-one reads:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....645e88a34ee019

BugBear
Feb 10 '06 #8
"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9m********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie...
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.

--
Spartanicus


According to who?

The Usenet Police SWAT team?

Perhaps you have not noticed the new world that has come about since the
internet started, but USENET is "public". If you need help with the
definition of the word "public", try a Google search.
Feb 10 '06 #9
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


I see no such emphasis in the FAQ that no-one reads:


Anyone can write a FAQ, I again refer to the "www" abbreviation used in
the group's name and the previously provided expansion of the relevant
bits.

--
Spartanicus
Feb 10 '06 #10
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:25:37 +0000, bugbear
<bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Spartanicus wrote:

[...]
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


I see no such emphasis in the FAQ that no-one reads:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....645e88a34ee019


It's right there under youre nose...

<blockquote>

01: ===== Q & A =====

Q: What is <comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets>

A: This is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
creation by 166:19 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on
20 Mar 1997.

The charter of this newsgroup, as culled from the vote result
announcement, states the following:

"This unmoderated newsgroup is intended for the discussion of Web
style sheets. Style sheets can make an author's life much easier.
With style sheets, one only needs to specify presentational
preferences once, and the style can be applied to an entire site.
Not only that, but style sheets also reduce download time when
one file contains all the style information."

</blockquote>

....note where the charter of this NG specifes "Web style sheets" as on
topic for discussions.

Did you participate in the discussions that preceded the vote for
creation of this NG? that was the time when the topic of this NG was
formed and as it seems so far, most regulars wants to keep it the way it
came out after creation.

--
Rex
Feb 10 '06 #11
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:37:26 GMT, "Windsun" <wi******@earthlink.net>
wrote:
"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:9m********************************@news.spar tanicus.utvinternet.ie...
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


According to who?

The Usenet Police SWAT team?

Perhaps you have not noticed the new world that has come about since the
internet started, but USENET is "public". If you need help with the
definition of the word "public", try a Google search.


If you only use that view on the division of usenet into subjects you
are basically saying that it's on-topic here (or in any NG in fact) to
discuss the color and quality of what your cat leaves in the litter box.

Usenet is public, yes, and it has been divided into many different
subjects for a reason and I happen to think that it's a good thing to
keep a level of dicipline on what gets posted and where.

--
Rex
Feb 10 '06 #12
"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4d********************************@4ax.com...
.... snip...
Usenet is public, yes, and it has been divided into many different
subjects for a reason and I happen to think that it's a good thing to
keep a level of dicipline on what gets posted and where.

--
Rex


Yes it has, and how many are there on STYLESHEETS? (hint, I see ONE)

And why does it make a beans worth of difference if the stylesheet is used
on or off of the the WWW?

Your example of cat litter dicusstions in this group is totally rediculous.
We are talking about STYLESHEETS in a STYLESHEET forum.

But because some anal-retentive decided that since the title of the
newsgroup said WWW in it, that this was an off topic forum for STYLESHEETS
that were not on the WWW, but on an intranet.

Perhaps you have missed it, but the emphasis of this group is (supposed to
be at least) STYLESHEETS, not where they are used at.
Feb 11 '06 #13

"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7t********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie...
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


I see no such emphasis in the FAQ that no-one reads:


Anyone can write a FAQ, I again refer to the "www" abbreviation used in
the group's name and the previously provided expansion of the relevant
bits.

--
Spartanicus


Then perhaps you could point him to an alternative newsgroup for CSS on
intranets?

Didn't think so.

And perhaps you could explain to us all why CSS on the WWW differs from CSS
on intranets?
Feb 11 '06 #14
"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:ac********************************@4ax.com...
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 16:25:37 +0000, bugbear
<bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote: ....
...note where the charter of this NG specifes "Web style sheets" as on
topic for discussions.

Did you participate in the discussions that preceded the vote for
creation of this NG? that was the time when the topic of this NG was
formed and as it seems so far, most regulars wants to keep it the way it
came out after creation.

--
Rex


So if it does not have WWW in it, it is not a web? Note the other words in
the title of the group "comp",."infosystems",."authoring", "stylesheets".

IMO the key words in that charter are "unmoderated newsgroup" and
"stylesheets".

If people would spend as much time discussing CSS in this group as they did
whining about top-posting, off-topic for non WWW webs, and similar anal
retentive subjects, it might actually be a good source of information.
Feb 11 '06 #15
"Windsun" <wi******@earthlink.net> wrote:
--
Spartanicus

Kindly configure your news reader to strip sigs when following up, or
remove them manually.
Then perhaps you could point him to an alternative newsgroup for CSS on
intranets?
A private network such as an intranet or wide area network often
distinguishes itself from a public network by a controlled client
environment including usage of a particular browser, or software
pretending to be a browser such as IE. If that's the case then a group
dedicated to the client used is the best place to post.

If that's not the case then a generic group like alt.html is
appropriate. The "alt" usenet hierarchy has relaxed rules with regard to
what's on topic, the alt.html regulars consider pretty much anything
regarding web design and web coding to be on topic.
And perhaps you could explain to us all why CSS on the WWW differs from CSS
on intranets?


With the possible exception of the alt hierarchy, usenet is not the
anarchic place you seem to think it is. A basic rule is that usenet
groups have a scope that is determined by their hierarchy. For this
group this breaks down to:

comp [computer]
infosystems [information systems]
www [world wide web]
authoring [speaks for itself]
stylesheets [css or other stylesheet languages]

There are some highly skilled people in this group (I'll exclude
myself), these people often do not engage with people who disregard the
basic rules beyond one or two attempts to get them to follow common
usenet etiquette. Ignore the rules and the usual result is that the only
people who are willing to engage you in conversation are the type of
people offer poor quality or bad advice.

Your choice.

--
Spartanicus
Feb 11 '06 #16
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 05:35:52 GMT, "Windsun" <wi******@earthlink.net>
wrote:
"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:ac********************************@4ax.com.. .
...note where the charter of this NG specifes "Web style sheets" as on
topic for discussions.

Did you participate in the discussions that preceded the vote for
creation of this NG? that was the time when the topic of this NG was
formed and as it seems so far, most regulars wants to keep it the way it
came out after creation.
So if it does not have WWW in it, it is not a web?


WWW=World Wide Web, note the extra characteristics of "World Wide" in
comparison to "Intranet".
IMO the key words in that charter are "unmoderated newsgroup" and
"stylesheets".
You are free to introduce a discussion about a change of "charter" for
this NG. Usenet is very "democratic" in that respect.
If people would spend as much time discussing CSS in this group as they did
whining about top-posting, off-topic for non WWW webs ... it might actually
be a good source of information.


Correct posting style is not only about you and me to read and write to
each other; it is an aid to correct archiving of threads in a manner
that makes our discussion possible to follow in an easy way years from
now.

--
Rex
Feb 11 '06 #17
"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:m3********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie...
<snip>
There are some highly skilled people in this group (I'll exclude
myself), these people often do not engage with people who disregard the
basic rules beyond one or two attempts to get them to follow common
usenet etiquette. Ignore the rules and the usual result is that the only
people who are willing to engage you in conversation are the type of
people offer poor quality or bad advice.

Your choice.

--
Spartanicus


There may or may not be "some highly skilled" people here, but I lurked in
this group for several weeks before I ever posted, and at this point I am
not impressed. I get far better results from such places as
http://www.webmasterworld.com/ and the like.

It appears that far more bandwidth is taken up by such off-topics as this
one, where instead of answering the original question, the poster was told
to go elsewhere. That would have taken up maybe one or two replies. This
thread now has over 15 off topic messages (including this one).

I see many very similar responses quite often. Instead of just answering the
question or assisting, the poster is told to go away.

But yes, you are right, it is my choice.
And my choice is that I am turning off my subscription to this group.
Feb 11 '06 #18
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 05:23:38 GMT, "Windsun" <wi******@earthlink.net>
wrote:
"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4d********************************@4ax.com.. .
... snip...
Usenet is public, yes, and it has been divided into many different
subjects for a reason and I happen to think that it's a good thing to
keep a level of dicipline on what gets posted and where.
Yes it has, and how many are there on STYLESHEETS? (hint, I see ONE)


It's not required for a NG to have "stylesheets" in its name for
stylesheet discussions to be on-topic.

e.g. comp.text.xml takes care of most discussions on XSLT even if it was
once decided that such discussions would be on-topic even here...

further; alt.html allows for just about any type of discussions on
markup and styles, more laxed and not directly connected to the www.

(and DSSSL has its own forum on a mailing list.)
And why does it make a beans worth of difference if the stylesheet is used
on or off of the the WWW?
The www is what it is, I have no knowledge of any restrictions on how to
download and make use of stylesheets over the www.

Intranets can be completely different given the policy laid down by a
company or maybe just by an overly critic server admin.

In the company where I'm employed we have PC's as in (Provided
Computers) where the available installed software corners us all into an
MS-Outlook/IE6 environment.

We have CSS suggestions available for lots of pages on our intranet that
looks "fantastic" as viewed in IE6, pull one of them up in Firefox and
we can revisit the discussion about what the cat leaves in the litter
box.
Your example of cat litter dicusstions in this group is totally rediculous.
We are talking about STYLESHEETS in a STYLESHEET forum.
NO, you where talking about "PUBLIC" and even had the guts to suggest
Spartanicus to look up that word through Google.

Let's quote what you wrote FYM...

'Perhaps you have not noticed the new world that has come about
since the internet started, but USENET is "public". If you need
help with the definition of the word "public", try a Google search.'

[...]
Perhaps you have missed it, but the emphasis of this group is (supposed to
be at least) STYLESHEETS, not where they are used at.


You have a lack of historical knowledge.

The fact that this NG is a member of the comp.infosystems.www.*
hierarchy automatically makes it an NG for dicussions on www related
topics.

Further; the "emphasis", as you call it, of this NG was first laid down
in the NG charter at time of NG vote for creation. Later, once the NG
was started, a few volonteers shelled in time of their own to run
discussions here on what the NG was supposed to be used for.

The result of that discussion is a consensus document stored at
http://www.css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.txt which is the only FAQ list for this
NG that has been "officially" registerd at MIT for permission to be
posted to the moderated comp.answers.* and news.answers.* hieriarchies.

The content of that FAQ is allways open for discussion, but it is not up
to any one to just say that the purpose of this NG is different from
what it is, just because said person(s) happens to think so.

You may want to start a serious thread where you make suggestions for
how to alter the concept of this NG. A new consensus decisition within
the NG would of course change the view on what's on/off topic too.

--
Rex
Feb 11 '06 #19
JRS: In article <7t********************************@news.spartanic us.ut
vinternet.ie>, dated Fri, 10 Feb 2006 17:05:23 remote, seen in
news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, Spartanicus
<in*****@invalid.invalid> posted :
bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
Note the "www" in this group's name. If it's not intended for and
publicly accessible by all then it's off topic here. The fact that
something uses css, http and the internet isn't enough.


I see no such emphasis in the FAQ that no-one reads:


Anyone can write a FAQ, I again refer to the "www" abbreviation used in
the group's name and the previously provided expansion of the relevant
bits.


A newsgroup name, being subject to constraints, is not definitive of
purpose; it is the Charter which counts, and if there is no formal
Charter it is the wording used in the creation decision.

In considerate newsgroups, there is a convention that related material
is acceptable if no better newsgroup can be named.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ??*@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Check boilerplate spelling -- error is a public sign of incompetence.
Never fully trust an article from a poster who gives no full real name.
Feb 11 '06 #20

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