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Opening Links in a new window. What's the "right" way?

P: n/a
Hello all,

On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window. In the
past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window. However,
using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation (strict
doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."

So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?

--
Viken K.
http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk
Dec 30 '05 #1
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44 Replies


P: n/a
"Viken Karaguesian" <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.
Stop wanting that. Problem solved.
the past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window.
However, using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation
(strict doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."
Of course. It's simple as 2 + 2 = 4. (Actually, simpler; no arithmetics is
involved, it's pure syntax.)
So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


You don't.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Dec 30 '05 #2

P: n/a
You have to use javascript to do it the proper way now.

<a href="link.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return
false;">link</a>

this is the proper way to handle it.

Dec 30 '05 #3

P: n/a
"Viken Karaguesian" <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.


You've not specified what browser you are using, some methods for
popular browsers:

IE: Right click -> Open in new window
Opera: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)
FF: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)

--
Spartanicus
Dec 30 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Viken Karaguesian" <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> writes:
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.


That's very simple. You just right-click on the hyperlink and select
"Open in new window" or "Open in new tab".

What I don't know how to do is force a hyperlink to open in the current
window/tab despite the attribute target="_blank". I hope that style
falls out of fashion, or at least that browsers will provide an obvious
way for users to disable it.
Dec 30 '05 #5

P: n/a
>>On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.

You've not specified what browser you are using, some methods for
popular browsers:

IE: Right click -> Open in new window
Opera: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)
FF: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)

Thanks for replying everyone. Although, now that I received your replies, I
realize that my question was a bit vague. I know how to right click and
"open in new window" :>)

What I meant was: How do I use HTML to force a link to open in a new window
if target="_blank" is invalid? From the responses I got, my suspicions
were validated: there's no way to do it without using JavaScript.

Sometimes, some links just don't fall into the "flow" of a site (sample
images, for instance) and I'd rather open those up in a small window than to
have someone navigate away from the site.
--
Viken K.
http://home.comcast.net/~vikenk
Dec 30 '05 #6

P: n/a
bruno wrote:
You have to use javascript to do it the proper way now.
<a href="link.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return
false;">link</a>


Don't do that. If you insist of forcing new windows on people, then use a
Transitional Doctype and the target attribute - that way at least people
can filter it out easily.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
Dec 30 '05 #7

P: n/a
In article <ZN******************************@comcast.com>,
Viken Karaguesian <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.
You've not specified what browser you are using, some methods for
popular browsers:

IE: Right click -> Open in new window
Opera: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)
FF: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)

Thanks for replying everyone. Although, now that I received your replies, I
realize that my question was a bit vague. I know how to right click and
"open in new window" :>)

What I meant was: How do I use HTML to force a link to open in a new window
if target="_blank" is invalid? From the responses I got, my suspicions
were validated: there's no way to do it without using JavaScript.


We all realized that, of course.
Sometimes, some links just don't fall into the "flow" of a site (sample
images, for instance) and I'd rather open those up in a small window than to
have someone navigate away from the site.


Is is likely to be clear to readers that this is so?
If so, then readers can choose to open the link in a
new tab or window themselves.

--
= Eric Bustad, Norwegian Bachelor Programmer
Dec 30 '05 #8

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
Sometimes, some links just don't fall into the "flow" of a site (sample
images, for instance) and I'd rather open those up in a small window than to
have someone navigate away from the site.

Eric Kenneth Bustad <ek******@monmouth.com> wrote: Is is likely to be clear to readers that this is so?
If so, then readers can choose to open the link in a
new tab or window themselves.


Of course, many attempts by authors to open new windows interfere with the
users' ability to open new windows normally. Shift-click no longer opens
the link in a new window, and may not open the link at all. The only way to
open the link in a new window is to try to open it normally.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Experience is what allows you to recognize a mistake when you make it again."
Dec 30 '05 #9

P: n/a
Bruce Lewis wrote:
What I don't know how to do is force a hyperlink to open in the current
window/tab despite the attribute target="_blank". I hope that style
falls out of fashion, or at least that browsers will provide an obvious
way for users to disable it.


You have that option in Firefox. Enter
about:config in the Location Bar. Select
browser.block.target_new_window and change value
from false to true. Now you have the power!
Nothing opens in a new window unless you choose it
yourself.
--
Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen
http://home.no.net/ingernet/
Dec 30 '05 #10

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian wrote:

Hello all,

On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window. In the
past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window. However,
using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation (strict
doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."

So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


Before you do this, be very sure there is a good reason to launch a
new window. With some 350 Web pages across two different Web
sites, I do this in only two situations. Both of them involve
opening a new page where the user will very likely want to keep
switching back and forth between the new page and the page that
linked to it. For example, the new page contains a glossary of
terms used in the page that links to it; the definitions in the
glossary are too long to put them in "tool tips" on the linking
page.

See "The Scourge of New Windows" at
<http://karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=25>.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail? Use PGP.
See my <http://www.rossde.com/PGP/>
Dec 31 '05 #11

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian wrote :
Hello all,

On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window. In the
past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window. However,
using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation (strict
doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."

So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


By learning to trust your visitors: if they want to have a new window,
they can open one all by themselves. If you still want to *_propose_*
your visitors to open some resources, data into a secondary window, then
you can follow the usability guidelines offered in the document:

DOM Window.open
Best practices, FAQ and usability issues
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:window.open

Gérard
--
remove blah to email me
Dec 31 '05 #12

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian wrote :
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.


You've not specified what browser you are using, some methods for
popular browsers:

IE: Right click -> Open in new window
Opera: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)
FF: Click link with middle mouse button (or wheel)


Thanks for replying everyone. Although, now that I received your replies, I
realize that my question was a bit vague. I know how to right click and
"open in new window" :>)

What I meant was: How do I use HTML to force a link to open in a new window
if target="_blank" is invalid?


The problem with your post is your use of the verb *_force_*. That's
where you'll get the most replies from this newsgroup. The issue of
validity will be secondary.

Gérard
--
remove blah to email me
Dec 31 '05 #13

P: n/a
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:57:00 -0500, "Viken Karaguesian"
<vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

[...]
...How do I use HTML to force...


Beeeep, Beeeep, Alert...

You just don't "force" anything with HTML. Your client placed at your
gunpoint might do the job though. Ever tried that?

--
Rex
Dec 31 '05 #14

P: n/a
OK... Seriously....

I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new windows.
I must ask: What's the big deal?

I understand that no one (including me) likes unsolicited, automated pop up
windows that open up all over the place, trying to sell you unwanted
services, products or links to dubious sites and impede your websurfing. But
a link in a site that opens a new window when you click it? I don't see the
big problem, especially when it's infrequent, and not an advertisement or a
misleading link .

When I check my webmail, it opens in a new window. Doesn't bother me. When I
go to a company's website and view a product image, it opens in a new
window. Doesn't bother me. In fact, I have my Google search customized to
open clicked links in a new window so I don't inadvertently lose my search
results.

So, can someone explain to me why new windows are sooooooo bad? Please
enlighten me. Maybe there's some aspect that I'm overlooking and haven't
thought about yet.

--
Viken K.
Dec 31 '05 #15

P: n/a
On Sat, 31 Dec 2005, Viken Karaguesian wrote:
OK... Seriously....

I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new
windows.
You don't, do you? And your use of pejoratives makes it clear enough
that you don't really want to. If you did, then I think reading some
of the many previous discussions would have put you in the picture,
and you wouldn't have categorised reader-friendly authoring as
"rabid". Your demand for a personal tutorial in addition smells - I
must say - rather trollish.
I must ask: What's the big deal?


When your potential readers get tired of you trying to overrule their
browsing choices, and leave - resolving not to go back, you'll be
getting no more than you deserve. IMHO, anyhow.

Dec 31 '05 #16

P: n/a
> and you wouldn't have categorised reader-friendly authoring as
"rabid".
I don't recall calling reader-friendly authoring rabid. But I just don't
understand the immediate, knee-jerk, negative reponse to a new window. I
suppose some people are passionate about diferent things. I suppose I don't
really care of another author opens a new window for me, as long as it's not
an automated pop-up or a misleading link that takes to me to advertisement
or a porn site, etc.
Your demand for a personal tutorial in addition smells - I
must say - rather trollish.


I don't mean to be a troll. You may call it a personal tutorial if that's
how you view it, but I just want to understand what it is about a new window
that drives people nuts.

Viken K.
Dec 31 '05 #17

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian wrote:
OK... Seriously....

I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new
windows. I must ask: What's the big deal?


Pretend you are one of the .. nine of ten? .. unsophisticated web
surfers and that you browse with your window maximized. Click one of
your links that opens a new window. Note the condition of the Back
button: dimmed. Note also that you can't see the original window any
more.

So ... after you finish reading this new page ... and can't go Back,
what do you do? Aha. You go to Google to look for something else.

Later, when you are finished surfing, you will close this window and
only then discover that original window. Oh well, that was two hours ago
so you just close it and go watch television.

--
-bts
-Warning: I brake for lawn deer
Dec 31 '05 #18

P: n/a
Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen wrote:
Bruce Lewis wrote:
What I don't know how to do is force a hyperlink to open in the current
window/tab despite the attribute target="_blank". I hope that style
falls out of fashion, or at least that browsers will provide an obvious
way for users to disable it.

You have that option in Firefox. Enter about:config in the Location Bar.
Select browser.block.target_new_window and change value from false to
true. Now you have the power! Nothing opens in a new window unless you
choose it yourself.

in firefox 1.0.7 I don't see any
browser.block.target_new_window

What I really want is to make every single link open in a new tab.
Dec 31 '05 #19

P: n/a
Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:30:51 -0500 from Viken Karaguesian
<vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net>:
So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


How do you move at 100 miles an hour while staying in the same place?

Those are incompatible goals.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you
Dec 31 '05 #20

P: n/a
meltedown wrote:
in firefox 1.0.7 I don't see any
browser.block.target_new_window
Hmm.. I've got 1.0.4. I hope you've just
overlooked it or it's renamed, because that's a
useful feature in my opinion.
What I really want is to make every single link open in a new tab.


That sounds a bit pestiferous to me.
Dec 31 '05 #21

P: n/a
JRS: In article <Xn*****************************@193.229.4.246>, dated
Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:44:28 local, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.autho
ring.html, Jukka K. Korpela <jk******@cs.tut.fi> posted :
"Viken Karaguesian" <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:
On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.


Stop wanting that. Problem solved.
the past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window.
However, using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation
(strict doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."


Of course. It's simple as 2 + 2 = 4. (Actually, simpler; no arithmetics is
involved, it's pure syntax.)
So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


You don't.


I use
<div class=CAN>
<a href="www-use0.htm" target="_top">No-Frame</a> *
...
...
</div>

so that ignorant users can un-frame the page if they happen to have
framed it. What do you suggest instead?

If you insist on a Web page to show what I refer to, then look at any of
my normal pages.
David D : I see no moral objection to using a link to open a
page in a new window, provided that the reader expects
that to happen. It's an appropriate thing to offer
when the new material is ancillary to the current page.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.com/faq/> JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang.javascript
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htm> jscr maths, dates, sources.
<URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.
Dec 31 '05 #22

P: n/a
Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen wrote:
meltedown wrote:
in firefox 1.0.7 I don't see any
browser.block.target_new_window

Hmm.. I've got 1.0.4. I hope you've just overlooked it or it's renamed,
because that's a useful feature in my opinion.

No its not there.
What I really want is to make every single link open in a new tab.

That sounds a bit pestiferous to me.

???
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally, I'd
like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere words,
when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the link
until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.

When I change the settings in about:config when do the setting take
place ? imeediately, on browser restart or on reboot ?

I cnanged the setting for the bookmarks to open in a new tab, but it
doesn't seem to have taken effect yet.
I love firefox, unfortunately there's no place to get much help. The
only places I know of are mozzilazine
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewforum.php?f=38
and irc://irc.mozilla.org/firefox

Alot of my questions have gone unanswered.
Dec 31 '05 #23

P: n/a
hug
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote:
Viken Karaguesian wrote:
OK... Seriously....

I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new
windows. I must ask: What's the big deal?


Pretend you are one of the .. nine of ten? .. unsophisticated web
surfers and that you browse with your window maximized. Click one of
your links that opens a new window. Note the condition of the Back
button: dimmed. Note also that you can't see the original window any
more.

So ... after you finish reading this new page ... and can't go Back,
what do you do? Aha. You go to Google to look for something else.

Later, when you are finished surfing, you will close this window and
only then discover that original window. Oh well, that was two hours ago
so you just close it and go watch television.


Okay. I hear your points.

On my "links" page, when you click on a link to someone else's site it
opens in a new window. To me that seems like a good thing. But am I
hearing that all cases where you open a new window are bad?

--
http://www.ren-prod-inc.com/hug_soft...action=contact
Dec 31 '05 #24

P: n/a
meltedown <gr*****@reenie.org> wrote:
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally, I'd
like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere words,
when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the link
until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.


I don't know about Firefox, but Opera can do something that. Shift-click
opens links in a new foreground window. Ctrl-shift-click opens links in a
new background window. I find it very useful when using (e.g.) Google. I
just crtl-shift-click a bunch of likely links, and then start cycling
through the open windows. (Any window that hasn't loaded by the time I get
to it probably wasn't worth bothering with anyway.)
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance."
Dec 31 '05 #25

P: n/a
> How do you move at 100 miles an hour while staying in the same place?

Those are incompatible goals.


I realize now that that's the case. :>)
Dec 31 '05 #26

P: n/a
Darin McGrew wrote:
meltedown <gr*****@reenie.org> wrote:
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally, I'd
like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere words,
when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the link
until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.

I don't know about Firefox, but Opera can do something that. Shift-click
opens links in a new foreground window. Ctrl-shift-click opens links in a
new background window. I find it very useful when using (e.g.) Google. I
just crtl-shift-click a bunch of likely links, and then start cycling
through the open windows. (Any window that hasn't loaded by the time I get
to it probably wasn't worth bothering with anyway.)


Yes firefox works the same way. I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.
Jan 1 '06 #27

P: n/a
Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Viken Karaguesian"
<vikenkNO_SPAM@NO_SPAMcomcast.net> writing in
news:TK********************@comcast.com:
I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new
windows. I must ask: What's the big deal?


For someone like me, who uses mouse gestures, it's a PITA. There I am
happily gesturing back, and nothing is happening. _Then_ I look up and see
the back button is dimmed. I hate that.

Now, I don't mind small informational pop-ups that _I_ click on too much,
because they are obvious.

--
Adrienne Boswell
http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
Please respond to the group so others can share
Jan 1 '06 #28

P: n/a
meltedown wrote:
I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.


I agree with you a bit more now, I just remebered
that sometimes (but now usually!) I would like to
open all links from a page in new windows, without
having to right click and choose "Open link in new
tab". With crtrl+shift the focus shifts to the new
page, I don't like that... An option in PrefBar
would have been great! Just to tick the
appropriate box to enable or disable the function,
it could be that easy. And I miss a quick way to
enable/disable Adblock too...
Jan 1 '06 #29

P: n/a
meltedown wrote:
Darin McGrew wrote:
meltedown <gr*****@reenie.org> wrote:
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally, I'd
like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere words,
when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the link
until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.

I don't know about Firefox, but Opera can do something that. Shift-click
opens links in a new foreground window. Ctrl-shift-click opens links in a
new background window. I find it very useful when using (e.g.) Google. I
just crtl-shift-click a bunch of likely links, and then start cycling
through the open windows. (Any window that hasn't loaded by the time I get
to it probably wasn't worth bothering with anyway.)


Yes firefox works the same way. I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.


Both Opera and Firefox open a link in a background tab if you
middle-click the link.

Steve

Jan 1 '06 #30

P: n/a
Dr John Stockton <jr*@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?
You don't.


I use
<div class=CAN>
<a href="www-use0.htm" target="_top">No-Frame</a> *
...
...
</div>

so that ignorant users can un-frame the page if they happen to have
framed it. What do you suggest instead?


I suggest removing it. If you are afraid of getting framed, don't make it
every user's problem. Besides, if you have designed your pages well, they
already have contextual links that the user can follow, whether your page has
been framed or not.

Did you have something to comment on the previous discussion that you quoted?
Do you think my answer to the question asked was incorrect? Why?
If you insist on a Web page to show what I refer to, then look at any of
my normal pages.
I'm not insisting on anything, and I have no reason to look at your normal
pages, especially when you do not specify the URL of your site and any
criteria from distinguishing normal from abnormal.
David D : I see no moral objection to using a link to open a
page in a new window, provided that the reader expects
that to happen. It's an appropriate thing to offer
when the new material is ancillary to the current page.


Quoting a half-named person's moral opinion is pointless as an argument.
(BTW, if the reader expects a new window to happen, then you have already
disturbed the browsing experience by explicitly informing the user about
technicalities or by opening links in new windows.)

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Jan 1 '06 #31

P: n/a
Steve Pugh wrote:
meltedown wrote:
Darin McGrew wrote:
meltedown <gr*****@reenie.org> wrote:
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally, I'd
like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere words,
when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the link
until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.
I don't know about Firefox, but Opera can do something that. Shift-click
opens links in a new foreground window. Ctrl-shift-click opens links in a
new background window. I find it very useful when using (e.g.) Google. I
just crtl-shift-click a bunch of likely links, and then start cycling
through the open windows. (Any window that hasn't loaded by the time I get
to it probably wasn't worth bothering with anyway.)


Yes firefox works the same way. I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.

Both Opera and Firefox open a link in a background tab if you
middle-click the link.

Steve

Great. Why didn't you tell me that a year ago ? ;-)
Jan 1 '06 #32

P: n/a
JRS: In article <Xn*****************************@193.229.4.246>, dated
Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:40:53 local, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.author
ing.html, Jukka K. Korpela <jk******@cs.tut.fi> posted :
Dr John Stockton <jr*@merlyn.demon.co.uk> wrote:
So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?

You don't.
I use
<div class=CAN>
<a href="www-use0.htm" target="_top">No-Frame</a> *
...
...
</div>

so that ignorant users can un-frame the page if they happen to have
framed it. What do you suggest instead?


I suggest removing it. If you are afraid of getting framed, don't make it
every user's problem. Besides, if you have designed your pages well, they
already have contextual links that the user can follow, whether your page has
been framed or not.


Getting into and out of frames is a user's option on my site. Reading
can readily be done without frames; but frames are available for those
who want an index on the left.

As it happens, the code spontaneously permits framing of a
framed view; which could be used if anyone wanted two or more
indexes at once.

Did you have something to comment on the previous discussion that you quoted?
Do you think my answer to the question asked was incorrect? Why?


The discussion led to my question.

If you insist on a Web page to show what I refer to, then look at any of
my normal pages.


I'm not insisting on anything, and I have no reason to look at your normal
pages, especially when you do not specify the URL of your site and any
criteria from distinguishing normal from abnormal.


The URL is in the signature; you give in your articles a signature
referring to your site, and I therefore thought that you would observe a
similar reference in my signature. The default page index.htm has
target="_top" in a slightly different context; about 140 other *.htm
have it in the quoted context. The Table of Contents, used in the left
frame, has it differently. But I take it, therefore, that the quoted
example suffices.
David D : I see no moral objection to using a link to open a
page in a new window, provided that the reader expects
that to happen. It's an appropriate thing to offer
when the new material is ancillary to the current page.


Quoting a half-named person's moral opinion is pointless as an argument.


"David D" is pretty obvious in this group, and clear in this thread.

--
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Jan 2 '06 #33

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian>:
I suppose I don't
really care of another author opens a new window for me, as long as it's not
an automated pop-up or a misleading link that takes to me to advertisement
or a porn site, etc.


Any time a target attribute is used in a link it is misleading, it
appears as a normal link in any browser I'm aware of but doesn't
behave as such, i.e. opening in the existing window.

I can easily open a new window, or typically another tab, having a
new window spawn is mostly annoying when I have other tasks going on
the same desktop.

The negative uses of new windows has caused a negative reaction even
in some casual web users, otherwise mainstream browsers would not be
offering features to prevent/alter these actions.

--
Rob McAninch
http://rock13.com
Jan 2 '06 #34

P: n/a
Dr John Stockton wrote:
David D : I see no moral objection to using a link to open a
page in a new window, provided that the reader expects
that to happen. It's an appropriate thing to offer
when the new material is ancillary to the current page.
Quoting a half-named person's moral opinion is pointless as an argument.
"David D" is pretty obvious in this group, and clear in this thread.


When did I say that, and where? Google is failing to find whatever you are
quoting.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
Jan 3 '06 #35

P: n/a
Dr John Stockton wrote:
JRS: In article <Xn*****************************@193.229.4.246>, dated
Fri, 30 Dec 2005 18:44:28 local, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.autho
ring.html, Jukka K. Korpela <jk******@cs.tut.fi> posted :
"Viken Karaguesian" <vi****@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

On occasion I want to open hyperlinks (images, etc.) in a new window.


Stop wanting that. Problem solved.

the past, I've used target="_blank" to open the link in a new window.
However, using the "target" attribute causes my pages to fail validation
(strict doctype). The validator says "There is no attribute 'target'.."


Of course. It's simple as 2 + 2 = 4. (Actually, simpler; no arithmetics is
involved, it's pure syntax.)

So...how do I open a link in a new window, without Javscript, and pass
strict validation?


You don't.

I use
<div class=CAN>
<a href="www-use0.htm" target="_top">No-Frame</a> *
...
...
</div>


Which won't pass strict validation, so this really doesn't solve the
problem cited.
Jan 3 '06 #36

P: n/a
meltedown wrote:

Yes firefox works the same way. I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.


Drag the link to the tab bar, next to the existing tabs, and you'll get
what you want.
Jan 3 '06 #37

P: n/a
In message <0U*******************@fe01.news.easynews.com>, meltedown
<gr*****@reenie.org> writes
Darin McGrew wrote:
meltedown <gr*****@reenie.org> wrote:
It what I've always wanted. I hate using the "back button". Ideally,
I'd like all links to open in a new tab IN THE BACKGROUND. In othere
words, when I click on a link, the focus stays on the window with the
link until I change tabs manually. I would love to get firefox to do that.

I don't know about Firefox, but Opera can do something that.
Shift-click
opens links in a new foreground window. Ctrl-shift-click opens links in a
new background window. I find it very useful when using (e.g.) Google. I
just crtl-shift-click a bunch of likely links, and then start cycling
through the open windows. (Any window that hasn't loaded by the time I get
to it probably wasn't worth bothering with anyway.)


Yes firefox works the same way. I would like it to open new tabs in the
background without any ctrl-shift clicks. I just want to click on the
link. I 'm sure it does that somehow, I just haven't found the right
setting.


Tools->Options->Tabs then clear the checkbox that says "select new tabs
opened from links"

--
Craig Cockburn ("coburn"). http://www.SiliconGlen.com/
Please sign the Spam Petition: http://www.siliconglen.com/spampetition/
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Scottish FAQ, weddings, website design, stop spam and more!
Jan 3 '06 #38

P: n/a
JRS: In article <dp*******************@news.demon.co.uk>, dated Tue, 3
Jan 2006 00:45:15 local, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.htm
l, David Dorward <do*****@yahoo.com> posted :
Dr John Stockton wrote:
David D : I see no moral objection to using a link to open a
page in a new window, provided that the reader expects
that to happen. It's an appropriate thing to offer
when the new material is ancillary to the current page.Quoting a half-named person's moral opinion is pointless as an argument.

"David D" is pretty obvious in this group, and clear in this thread.


When did I say that, and where? Google is failing to find whatever you are
quoting.


If I had intended to indicate that you wrote it, I would have said so.

David D is there in the vocative; it indicates with whom I thought I was
disagreeing. The reference is thus to your only then-extant article in
the thread. However, for which I apologise, checking indicated that the
sentiments were expressed by someone else, possibly JKK. BTW, it was in
fact he who first asserted it to be a quotation.
--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ?@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 IE 4 ©
<URL:http://www.jibbering.com/faq/> JL/RC: FAQ of news:comp.lang.javascript
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Jan 4 '06 #39

P: n/a
JRS: In article <41*************@individual.net>, dated Tue, 3 Jan 2006
10:59:19 local, seen in news:comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, Harlan
Messinger <hm*******************@comcast.net> posted :
Dr John Stockton wrote:

I use
<div class=CAN>
<a href="www-use0.htm" target="_top">No-Frame</a> *
...
...
</div>


Which won't pass strict validation, so this really doesn't solve the
problem cited.


As you might have realised I knew if you had considered the next few
words, which were "so that ignorant users can un-frame the page if they
happen to have framed it. What do you suggest instead?"

My question is related to and descended from that of the OP : but it is
not the same, and remains unanswered.

--
© John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ??*@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v4.00 MIME. ©
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.

Food expiry ambiguities: <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/date2k-3.htm#Food>
Jan 4 '06 #40

P: n/a
Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:48:20 +0000 from Dr John Stockton
<jr*@merlyn.demon.co.uk>:
If I had intended to indicate that you wrote it, I would have said so.

David D is there in the vocative; it indicates with whom I thought I was
disagreeing.


Here's one more data point: it looked to me like an attribution, not
a vocative.

I think the onus is on the writer to be clear.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
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Jan 4 '06 #41

P: n/a
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:53:34 +0100, David Dorward <do*****@yahoo.com>
wrote:
bruno wrote:
You have to use javascript to do it the proper way now.
<a href="link.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return
false;">link</a>


Don't do that. If you insist of forcing new windows on people, then use a
Transitional Doctype and the target attribute - that way at least people
can filter it out easily.


Using Proxomitron maybe, not exactly easy. Using the JavaScript method I
can filter it out by disabling JavaScript.

If all JavaScript was used in an unobtrusive way like this, disabling
JavaScript would be a viable option for normal webbrowsing :)

--
Get Opera 8 now! Speed, Security and Simplicity.
http://my.opera.com/Rijk/affiliate/

Rijk van Geijtenbeek
Jan 4 '06 #42

P: n/a
Rijk van Geijtenbeek wrote:

(On filtering out new windows)
Using Proxomitron maybe, not exactly easy.
With built in options in Firefox - very easily.
Using the JavaScript method I
can filter it out by disabling JavaScript. If all JavaScript was used in an unobtrusive way like this, disabling
JavaScript would be a viable option for normal webbrowsing :)


But as it isn't, it makes using such as a filter ... less then optimal.

Jan 4 '06 #43

P: n/a
Viken Karaguesian wrote :
OK... Seriously....

I don't quite understand the rabid, cult-like hatred of opening new windows.
I must ask: What's the big deal?

Nr 1 reason: the code that opens new windows is very often poorly
written (1), therefore interferes with my browser extensions,
right-click/context menu, etc..
Proof of this:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachm...49&action=view

100% of all "javascript:" pseudo-protocol links interfere with browser
prefs, extensions.

Nr 2 reason: the code does not announce itself in the page. So the user
always/often gets surprised, deceiving his preferences (for say, opening
in a tab, not in a window). The user is prevented from being able to
control the way *he* prefers to open links.

Nr 3 reason: opening new window is clearly slower, more
resource-demanding for the browser

Nr 4 reason: the new window lacks toolbars, resizability, no scrollbars
present despite document box overflowing viewport dimensions, etc..

Unable to Maximize or Resize Internet Explorer Pop-Up Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;211068

This lead browser manufacturers to reverse the situation:

"Script-initiated windows will be displayed fully, with the Internet
Explorer title bar and status bar. (...)
Internet Explorer has been modified to not turn off the status bar for
any windows. The status bar is always visible for all Internet Explorer
windows. (...)"
Fine-Tune Your Web Site for Windows XP Service Pack 2, Browser Window
Restrictions in XP SP2
http://msdn.microsoft.com/security/p...sp#xpsp_topic5

"We think the address bar is also important for users to see in pop-up
windows. A missing address bar creates a chance for a fraudster to forge
an address of their own. To help thwart that, IE7 will show the address
bar on all internet windows to help users see where they are." coming
from IE 7 Blog, Better Website Identification
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/11/21.aspx

More reasons at:

DOM: window.open() FAQ
http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/DOM:window.open

I understand that no one (including me) likes unsolicited, automated pop up
windows that open up all over the place, trying to sell you unwanted
services, products or links to dubious sites and impede your websurfing. But
a link in a site that opens a new window when you click it? I don't see the
big problem, especially when it's infrequent, and not an advertisement or a
misleading link .

When I check my webmail, it opens in a new window. Doesn't bother me. When I
go to a company's website and view a product image, it opens in a new
window. Doesn't bother me. In fact, I have my Google search customized to
open clicked links in a new window so I don't inadvertently lose my search
results.

So, can someone explain to me why new windows are sooooooo bad?


99% of the time, I'd say that links opening new windows are badly
written, poorly written, not following usability guidelines,
accessibility guidelines provided by people or groups like J. Nielsen,
WAI, accessify.com. So, they interfere with the users capabilities of
accessing those windows, using those windows.

One example out of 100 ones: I increase the font size of a popup window
and then scrollbars do not appear but the document box gets greater than
the window dimensions. So, visually, I do not see a vertical scrollbar
so I am not aware there is more content down the window. The result? You
lose a sale because I couldn't find the price of your product... at the
bottom of your popup window.

Another example: I set my browser to a minimum font size. I get a popup
from a site. I can not resize my browser because the window.open call
made the window non-resizable. How stupid! The site removed a normal,
default, standard functionality in all browser window in a popup.
Consider that I, as an user, can not remove the browser window
resizability of my browser. Same thing with menubar. As an user, I can
not remove it when using MSIE 6: how come you, as a scripter, can remove
the menubar of the visitors being served a popup when clicking a link?
In other words, the window.open scripter has more power over the user
than the user has over his own browser. A clear obvious imbalance and
nonsense.

Another reason and a major one: focusability of secondary windows. You
can read the phenomenon explained here:

http://www.gtalbot.org/Netscape7Sect...seLowerSetting

and the proposal (under the heading "Focusing a secondary window and the
target attribute") I made at:

http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/defaul...eatureRequests

(1)
I once checked all the page providing a popup coder webpage in
javascript copy-N-paste sites, popup writing code webpages, popup
generators, etc. and they all had problems, had inaccuracies, and some
were plain wrong.

Gérard

--
remove blah to email me
Jan 15 '06 #44

P: n/a
in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, David Dorward wrote:
Rijk van Geijtenbeek wrote:

(On filtering out new windows)
Using Proxomitron maybe, not exactly easy.


With built in options in Firefox - very easily.


Also in Opera, with User JS ... less easy.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Jan 15 '06 #45

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