Can I assume that Netscape = Firefox?

[Viken Karaguesian]

Hello all,

Just a curiosity question here. Since Firefox and Netscape are both based on
the Mozilla engine (AFAIK), can I assume that they will display my pages the
same way?

Viken K.

--

[Els]

Viken Karaguesian wrote:

Hello all,

Just a curiosity question here. Since Firefox and Netscape are both based on
the Mozilla engine (AFAIK), can I assume that they will display my pages the
same way?

No.
Even Firefox 1.5 displays stuff different from Firefox 1.0.6.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Gérard Talbot]

Viken Karaguesian wrote :

Hello all,

Just a curiosity question here. Since Firefox and Netscape are both based on
the Mozilla engine (AFAIK), can I assume that they will display my pages the
same way?

Viken K.

That's not how to do things. You should test and verify the support of
the visiting browser for the particular and specific properties and
methods your webpage will be using. Detection based on browser/browser
version and assuming similar rendering for different browsers
- will lead to many errors
- will be hard and long to maintain and to update

Developing Cross Browser/Cross Platform Pages
http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-deve...evCrossBrowser

More on object/feature detection:
A Strategy That Works: Object/Feature Detecting by comp.lang.javascript
newsgroup FAQ notes
http://jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/n...tect.html#bdFD

Browser detection - No; Object detection - Yes by Peter-Paul Koch
http://www.quirksmode.org/js/support.html

Gérard
--
remove blah to email me

[C A Upsdell]

Viken Karaguesian wrote:

Hello all,

Just a curiosity question here. Since Firefox and Netscape are both based on
the Mozilla engine (AFAIK), can I assume that they will display my pages the
same way?

Different browsers may use different versions of the Gecko engine. E.g.
Netscape 8.04 has v1.7.12 of the engine, but Firefox 1.5 uses v1.8 of
the engine. Netscape usually trails behind Firefox.

[Harlan Messinger]

Gérard Talbot wrote:

Viken Karaguesian wrote :

Hello all,

Just a curiosity question here. Since Firefox and Netscape are both
based on the Mozilla engine (AFAIK), can I assume that they will
display my pages the same way?

Viken K.

That's not how to do things. You should test and verify the support of
the visiting browser for the particular and specific properties and
methods your webpage will be using. Detection based on browser/browser
version and assuming similar rendering for different browsers
- will lead to many errors
- will be hard and long to maintain and to update

Just to keep the OP from getting confused in case he doesn't know what
you're talking about: you assumed he was referring to browser detection
in Javascript code. I think he meant, does he have to test his pages in
both or, if they look OK in one, can he assume they will look the same
in the other, regardless of Javascript.

[Viken Karaguesian]

> Just to keep the OP from getting confused in case he doesn't know what

you're talking about: you assumed he was referring to browser detection in
Javascript code. I think he meant, does he have to test his pages in both
or, if they look OK in one, can he assume they will look the same in the
other, regardless of Javascript.

Yes, that's what I meant. I test my stuff in IE, Firefox, and Opera. I
figure that almost everyone who will look at my sites will not do so on a
Palm or PocketPC device, or with a text browser like Lynx. They'll probably
use a verision of one of those browsers. I guess I'll just add Netscape to
the mix.

Viken K.

[Viken Karaguesian]

> Just to keep the OP from getting confused in case he doesn't know what

I'm must not be up-to-date on the lingo. What's "OP"? :>)

[Ian Rastall]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:38:01 -0500, "Viken Karaguesian"
<vikenkNO_SPAM@NO_SPAMcomcast.net> wrote:

What's "OP"?

Original Poster.

Ian
--
http://www.bookstacks.org/

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Viken Karaguesian
<vikenkNO_SPAM@NO_SPAMcomcast.net> spouted in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

I
figure that almost everyone who will look at my sites will not do so on a
Palm or PocketPC device, or with a text browser like Lynx.

You're pretty much guaranteeing it if you don't test on them.

BTW: I'd add at least one KHTML-based browser (e.g. Konqueror, Safari)
to your test suite if possible.

--
Mark Parnell
================================================== ===
Att. Google Groups users - this is your last warning:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

[Warren Post]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:37:01 -0500, Viken Karaguesian wrote:

I test my stuff in IE, Firefox, and Opera. I
figure that almost everyone who will look at my sites will not do so on a
Palm or PocketPC device, or with a text browser like Lynx.

Since you already have Opera, you can use it to view a simulated small
screen display and a simulated text browser. The text browser simulations
are a good approximation of what I see with Lynx and Links. Since I do not
have access to small screen devices, I don't know how well the small
screen simulation works.

I agree with another poster that it would be best to add either Konqueror
or Safari to your test suite.

--
Warren Post
Santa Rosa de Copán, Honduras
http://srcopan.vze.com/

[Spartanicus]

Warren Post <wp**********@hondutel.hn> wrote:

Since you already have Opera, you can use it to view a simulated small
screen display

Unless the site contains a handheld stylesheet, Opera's small screen
rendering uses a proprietary method to fit a normal site onto a small
screen. Opera's SSR only emulates what a user will get when they use a
small screen device that uses Opera as the browser.

--
Spartanicus

[Warren Post]

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:29:43 +0000, Spartanicus wrote:

Unless the site contains a handheld stylesheet, Opera's small screen
rendering uses a proprietary method to fit a normal site onto a small
screen. Opera's SSR only emulates what a user will get when they use a
small screen device that uses Opera as the browser.

That's good to know. So what is a designer to do if he doesn't
have access to a small screen device on which to test?

--
Warren Post
Santa Rosa de Copán, Honduras
http://srcopan.vze.com/

[Spartanicus]

Warren Post <wp**********@hondutel.hn> wrote:

Unless the site contains a handheld stylesheet, Opera's small screen
rendering uses a proprietary method to fit a normal site onto a small
screen. Opera's SSR only emulates what a user will get when they use a
small screen device that uses Opera as the browser.

That's good to know. So what is a designer to do if he doesn't
have access to a small screen device on which to test?

Proper testing of compatibility with small screen devices requires
direct access to as many such devices as you can get your hands on. Some
support CSS (with varying success), others don't support CSS at all,
some support handheld stylesheets, others don't, etc. etc.

--
Spartanicus

[Tim]

Spartanicus:

Unless the site contains a handheld stylesheet, Opera's small screen
rendering uses a proprietary method to fit a normal site onto a small
screen. Opera's SSR only emulates what a user will get when they use a
small screen device that uses Opera as the browser.

Warren Post: That's good to know. So what is a designer to do if he doesn't have access
to a small screen device on which to test?

At the most basic level, learn to design sites that don't depend on any
style (however you'd apply it). If the site reads out coherently, that's
a good indication.

Read it out loud, linear fashion (as coded, don't make a human
interpretation and read a column of text separately from adjacent
navigational links, unless they're really written one after another), as
if dictating it to someone. If it becomes incoherent, a redesign is in
order.

Similarly related, is making a page over complex (multiple columns, lots
of stuff unrelated to the main topic, etc.). Want a bad example page,
try: <http://www.tomshardware.com/>, it's got everything and the kitchen
sink crammed into the homepage. It's bad enough with a large browsing
window...

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If you insist on e-mailing me, use the reply-to address (it's real but
temporary). But please reply to the group, like you're supposed to.

This message was sent without a virus, please destroy some files yourself.

[Warren Post]

All excellent advice that more people should follow generally, not just if
they want to be handheld friendly. Thanks.

--
Warren Post
Santa Rosa de Copán, Honduras
http://srcopan.vze.com/

[Warren Post]

On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:17:53 +0000, Spartanicus wrote:

Proper testing of compatibility with small screen devices requires direct
access to as many such devices as you can get your hands on.

Then I hope Santa brings me that handheld I asked for and not another lump
of coal like last year.

--
Warren Post
Santa Rosa de Copán, Honduras
http://srcopan.vze.com/