same address new page without using frames?

[wallster]

please keep the flaming to a minimum (a bucket of water is next to me)
but I have a question someone here might be able to explain in basic
terms for a dunce like me.
I helped a friend put together a website that uses his domain name and
url directs to my server. It has a (sorry) flash intro page that
continues to his main page. When I click on a navigation button, the
address reverts back to my webpage address. Without using shitty frames
design, how can i keep the navigated links keep the original address?
I'm using frontpage. Here's the website:
http://www.julicher-racing.com
thanks in advance.

wall

[wallster]

ps. I know the best way to do this would be to have him pay for his own
web host service, but blood from a stone comes to mind when mentioned.

thanks,
wall

[Els]

wallster wrote:

please keep the flaming to a minimum (a bucket of water is next to me)
but I have a question someone here might be able to explain in basic
terms for a dunce like me.
No flaming, but:
I helped a friend put together a website that uses his domain name and
url directs to my server. It has a (sorry) flash intro page that
continues to his main page.
Do /not/ play your music right through mine. Look at my sig. You think
I listen to that because I like to hear some other music right through
it? You didn't even provide a button where I could turn it off. If you
want to provide background music, place a button with the text "for
background music during your visit, please click here".
When I click on a navigation button, the
address reverts back to my webpage address. Without using shitty frames
design, how can i keep the navigated links keep the original address?
You shouldn't want to. What if your friend wants to show a certain
page of his site to his Mum? Tell her to type this, then click that,
then click that link, and then that link.... "what are you seeing Mum?
no no, you clicked one too many now. Go back." ;-)
I'm using frontpage. Here's the website:
http://www.julicher-racing.com
thanks in advance.

If your friend wants that domainname in every window, he should get
proper hosting. Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month. That way you don't have to use frames,
and you get the best of both: the domain name doesn't go away, but the
pages are in the url too, so you can send people to a certain page
right away.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Squeeze - If It's Love

[wallster]

thanks Els, that was what i was think all along (sorry about the music,
i thought the flash intro warning would have helped)
I'll just leave well enuf alone, just thought there was a way to simply
hide all that info (without frames). Making his Mum search like
squirrel would be the price to pay for being cheap!
Thanks again,
wall

[Els]

wallster wrote:

Please quote what you are replying to. Possible even in Google Groups:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

thanks Els, that was what i was think all along (sorry about the music,
i thought the flash intro warning would have helped)
Well, I did click 'skip intro', but that opened a new tab, and the
music kept playing from the intro.
I'll just leave well enuf alone, just thought there was a way to simply
hide all that info (without frames). Making his Mum search like
squirrel would be the price to pay for being cheap!

:-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Squeeze - Labelled With Love

[wallster]

Els wrote:

wallster wrote:

Please quote what you are replying to. Possible even in Google Groups:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

Thanks, got it now.

thanks Els, that was what i was think all along (sorry about the music,
i thought the flash intro warning would have helped)

Well, I did click 'skip intro', but that opened a new tab, and the
music kept playing from the intro.

I'll just leave well enuf alone, just thought there was a way to simply
hide all that info (without frames). Making his Mum search like
squirrel would be the price to pay for being cheap!

:-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Squeeze - Labelled With Love

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [Els] on Saturday 03 September 2005 18:22 \__

wallster wrote:

please keep the flaming to a minimum (a bucket of water is next to me)
but I have a question someone here might be able to explain in basic
terms for a dunce like me.

No flaming, but:

I helped a friend put together a website that uses his domain name and
url directs to my server. It has a (sorry) flash intro page that
continues to his main page.

Do /not/ play your music right through mine. Look at my sig. You think
I listen to that because I like to hear some other music right through
it? You didn't even provide a button where I could turn it off. If you
want to provide background music, place a button with the text "for
background music during your visit, please click here".

I think that's what the OP had the bucket of water for. I am sorry, but it's
missing the point, which is that a /client/ has certain dogmatic ideas in
mind. Have a look at:

http://www.danielsorogon.com

It is my first proper site, which I designed when I was 19. Flash
introduction and Flash pages (I insisted on alternative pages that override
Flash); used to have background MIDI audio (commented out now). It was not
my choice, but at least I have Flash among my list of skills. Let's try to
be productive rather than make the OP have even more feelings that conflict
the client stir.

When I click on a navigation button, the
address reverts back to my webpage address. Without using shitty frames
design, how can i keep the navigated links keep the original address?

You shouldn't want to. What if your friend wants to show a certain
page of his site to his Mum? Tell her to type this, then click that,
then click that link, and then that link.... "what are you seeing Mum?
no no, you clicked one too many now. Go back." ;-)

This reminds me of a JavaScript menu and Perl-generated pages that were
developed to administer conferences [1] . You could /never/ ever deep link
to such a site. Pages were just one main address with arguments that are
passed (using JavaScript!) to Perl as arguments. This really boiled me so I
must agree with Els. Search engines might dislike that too. They will wind
up indexing a single page. This is always a terrible idea in commerce.

[1] Software developed by a colleague for a large set of international
conferences. Soon to be scraped and redesigned... but I declined the offer
to do so... they preferred ASP/.NET... *spit*

I'm using frontpage. Here's the website:
http://www.julicher-racing.com
thanks in advance.

If your friend wants that domainname in every window, he should get
proper hosting. Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month. That way you don't have to use frames,
and you get the best of both: the domain name doesn't go away, but the
pages are in the url too, so you can send people to a certain page
right away.

If you need cheap and highly reliable domain hosting, have a look at my
folks:

http://www.catalyst2.com/

Starts at GBP 12 per year + domain acquisition.

Hope it helps,

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "No, I didn't buy that from eBay"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
8:10pm up 10 days 8:21, 5 users, load average: 0.94, 0.71, 0.62

[wallster]

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

__/ [Els] on Saturday 03 September 2005 18:22 \__

<snipped> I think that's what the OP had the bucket of water for. I am sorry, but it's
missing the point, which is that a /client/ has certain dogmatic ideas in
mind. Have a look at:

http://www.danielsorogon.com

I know alot of people frown upon frames but i think that site looks
great!
I have broadband so I like the flash presentations. Too bad dial up
surfers can't appreciate them.
It is my first proper site, which I designed when I was 19. Flash
introduction and Flash pages (I insisted on alternative pages that override
Flash); used to have background MIDI audio (commented out now). It was not
my choice, but at least I have Flash among my list of skills. > Hope it helps,

It has, thanks!

wall

[David Dorward]

wallster wrote:

http://www.danielsorogon.com

I know alot of people frown upon frames but i think that site looks
great!

Daniel Sorogon - Online Information and Projects Catalogue
[EMBED]

If your browser does not support Flash, click here
Click? With what?

If I follow the link then it takes me to a content less page (since the
<noframes> is empty).

It is possible to implement frames without introducing major problems for at
least some of your audience, but most of the time authors don't, and the
amount of work means that its usually better to take a different approach
in the first place.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[wallster]

David Dorward wrote:

wallster wrote:

http://www.danielsorogon.com

I know alot of people frown upon frames but i think that site looks
great!

Daniel Sorogon - Online Information and Projects Catalogue
[EMBED]

If your browser does not support Flash, click here
Click? With what?

If I follow the link then it takes me to a content less page (since the
<noframes> is empty).

It is possible to implement frames without introducing major problems for at
least some of your audience, but most of the time authors don't, and the
amount of work means that its usually better to take a different approach
in the first place.

I agree that it's just not universal enough for all users. I wouldn't
use them because of that reason but if I were a website designer and
that's what my customer insisted on, well that could be another story i
guess. The same applies with flash. At least with just a flash intro
page that has a skip intro prompt, you dont have to wait a year with
your dial up connection to load the page. I personally like the way
some of these look (as a web surfer) but again, it should be good for
as many visitors as possible.

walt

[Stan Brown]

In article <i4**************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month.

Citation, please?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you

[Stan Brown]

In article <9o***************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Please quote what you are replying to. Possible even in Google Groups:
http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/

Nice link! I've updated my "Playing Nice on Usenet",
<http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm>.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [wallster] on Saturday 03 September 2005 22:25 \__

David Dorward wrote:

wallster wrote:

>> http://www.danielsorogon.com

> I know alot of people frown upon frames but i think that site looks
> great!

Daniel Sorogon - Online Information and Projects
Catalogue
[EMBED]

If your browser does not support Flash, click here
Click? With what?

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here" appears below
the Flash object, so when Flash is not supported, the introduction page can
be skipped.

If I follow the link then it takes me to a content less page (since the
<noframes> is empty).

It is possible to implement frames without introducing major problems for
at least some of your audience, but most of the time authors don't, and
the amount of work means that its usually better to take a different
approach in the first place.

Please get a feel for the entire /context/ of the message. I listed the site
above as a /bad/ example.

I agree that it's just not universal enough for all users. I wouldn't
use them because of that reason but if I were a website designer and
that's what my customer insisted on, well that could be another story i
guess. The same applies with flash. At least with just a flash intro
page that has a skip intro prompt, you dont have to wait a year with
your dial up connection to load the page. I personally like the way
some of these look (as a web surfer) but again, it should be good for
as many visitors as possible.

Remember that your Web pages is served to robots as well as visitors, which
in turn can attract plenty of visitors. Half of my entire traffic is
consumed by search engines. In the first place, many visitors found about
about my Web sites owing to search engines. The site listed above really
deters any single search engine.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
5:50am up 10 days 18:01, 6 users, load average: 0.81, 0.52, 0.49

[Els]

Stan Brown wrote:

In article <i4**************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month.

Citation, please?

http://hostingforabuck.com/

Besides cheap also very helpful and quick to respond.

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [Els] on Sunday 04 September 2005 07:11 \__

Stan Brown wrote:

In article <i4**************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month.

Citation, please?

http://hostingforabuck.com/

Besides cheap also very helpful and quick to respond.

While I am impressed by the price, having checked for some catches like
expensive domain registration, I must point out the following:

- Site was first observed in March 2003

- Site traffic appears to be low (5 millionth+ according to Netcraft, not
known to Alexa)

- Risk rating is 1/10.

- Many domains are registered with the host. I can see at least 1000 of
them.
In summary, there are a few red flags, but also some encouraging figures. Be
cautious because moving from one host to another is an
effort/time-consuming process.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
8:45am up 10 days 20:56, 3 users, load average: 0.39, 0.39, 0.45

[David Dorward]

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

Click? With what?

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here"
I said _with_ what, not _on_ what. Not everybody uses a pointing device. A
basic point of HTML authoring style is "Avoid talking about mechanics".
If I follow the link ... [critique]

Please get a feel for the entire /context/ of the message.

Please notice I was responding to wallster's praise, not to your post.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[Toby Inkster]

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here" appears below
the Flash object

Though it assumes that the visitor owns a device capable of "clicking".

Even if they do own one, it seems rather archaic to insist on its use in
this current era of voice-controlled browsers.

--
Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact

[Shawn K. Quinn]

begin quotation
from Stan Brown <th************@fastmail.fm>
in message <MP************************@news.individual.net>
posted at 2005-09-04T02:52

In article <i4**************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month.

Citation, please?

http://www.nearlyfreespeech.net comes to mind.

--
___ _ _____ |*|
/ __| |/ / _ \ |*| Shawn K. Quinn
\__ \ ' < (_) | |*| sk*****@speakeasy.net
|___/_|\_\__\_\ |*| Houston, TX, USA

[Stan Brown]

In article <sl********************@xevious.platypuslabs.org >, Shawn
K. Quinn favored us with...

begin quotation
from Stan Brown <th************@fastmail.fm>
in message <MP************************@news.individual.net>
posted at 2005-09-04T02:52

In article <i4**************@locusmeus.com>, Els favored us with...

Doesn't have to cost the world, you can get good
hosting for 1 USD per month.

Citation, please?

http://www.nearlyfreespeech.net comes to mind.

That would be more than $1 a month for even a modest site like mine
(about 2.5 GB/month currently), but still I appreciate the reference
because the price seems very reasonable.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Why We Won't Help You:
http://diveintomark.org/archives/200..._wont_help_you

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [David Dorward] on Sunday 04 September 2005 10:26 \__

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

Click? With what?

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here"

I said _with_ what, not _on_ what. Not everybody uses a pointing device. A
basic point of HTML authoring style is "Avoid talking about mechanics".

That's a good point, which very few pay attention too (see quote in
signature). Could you not use TAB to jump between elements or links though?

I am a big fan of accesskeys, which I even use excessively. Unfortunately,
there are collisions involved with them. I have other accelerator
collisions already (at O/S-level).

If I follow the link ... [critique]

Please get a feel for the entire /context/ of the message.

Please notice I was responding to wallster's praise, not to your post.

That's a relief. *smile*

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Error, no keyboard - press F1 to continue"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
5:50pm up 11 days 6:01, 3 users, load average: 0.03, 0.37, 0.41

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [Toby Inkster] on Sunday 04 September 2005 12:11 \__

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here" appears
below the Flash object

Though it assumes that the visitor owns a device capable of "clicking".

Even if they do own one, it seems rather archaic to insist on its use in
this current era of voice-controlled browsers.

The anchor text of links in that page always looks laughable to me, but I
promised myself not to spend much time on that long-forgotten Web site. I
guess I ought to have said something like:

"If you browser does not support Flash, just holler, click <here>, or go to
a <different site>. If the design of this site infuriates you, I suggest
Prozak with a glass of water. Complaints by E-mail to my spam trap at
ro*@microsoft.com; I like big attachments too, especially ones that mess
about with my Registry"

To phrase this much more professionally, I would replace "holler" with
"shout". That'll do... time to make some changes to the front page...

....or not.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Lions are like hippie tigers"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
5:55pm up 11 days 6:06, 3 users, load average: 0.72, 0.36, 0.38

[David Dorward]

Roy Schestowitz wrote:

The text "If your browser does not support Flash, click here"

I said _with_ what, not _on_ what. Not everybody uses a pointing device.

That's a good point, which very few pay attention too (see quote in
signature). Could you not use TAB to jump between elements or links
though?
That wouldn't be a "click" though. Mouse/Trackball buttons get clicked,
keyboard keys get pressed (or sometimes tapped).
I am a big fan of accesskeys,
I'm not. All browser implementations suck.
which I even use excessively. Unfortunately, there are collisions involved
with them.

Exactly - and in those few browsers where that problem doesn't exist
(through using a different activation key) there is still a lack of methods
to inform the user of the existence of the accesskeys.

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is

[Alan J. Flavell]

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

I am a big fan of accesskeys,
They were recommended by the first-issue WAI guidelines, certainly,
but, as folks have followed those guidelines, I think the shortcomings
of the available browsers (known only too well already to those who
needed accessibility, I'm told) have become more widely known, to the
extent that accesskeys have been described as "a solution in search of
an implementation", and I know quite a few people who take an informed
interest in accessibility who are now advising *against* providing
them, but rather, recommending to give more thought to a logical
design of their navigation links, so that they don't get in the way of
accessing the content.
which I even use excessively. Unfortunately, there are collisions
involved with them. I have other accelerator collisions already (at
O/S-level).

Right.

[Shawn K. Quinn]

begin quotation
from Roy Schestowitz <ne********@schestowitz.com>
in message <df**********@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
posted at 2005-09-04T17:01

The anchor text of links in that page always looks laughable to me, but I
promised myself not to spend much time on that long-forgotten Web site. I
guess I ought to have said something like: "If you browser does not support Flash, just holler, click <here>,

I think you're completely missing the point here. Some users do not use
a mouse with their Web browser. Some Web browsers are not capable of
handling mouse input. Some browsing situations use the mouse only for
copying and pasting text, not moving a pointer.

"Click here" looks *really* stupid printed out.
"Click here" sounds *really* stupid read aloud.
"Click here" is capable of *really* confusing users in those browsing
situations I mentioned above.

--
___ _ _____ |*|
/ __| |/ / _ \ |*| Shawn K. Quinn
\__ \ ' < (_) | |*| sk*****@speakeasy.net
|___/_|\_\__\_\ |*| Houston, TX, USA

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [Alan J. Flavell] on Sunday 04 September 2005 18:54 \__

On Sun, 4 Sep 2005, Roy Schestowitz wrote:

I am a big fan of accesskeys,

They were recommended by the first-issue WAI guidelines, certainly,
but, as folks have followed those guidelines, I think the shortcomings
of the available browsers (known only too well already to those who
needed accessibility, I'm told) have become more widely known, to the
extent that accesskeys have been described as "a solution in search of
an implementation", and I know quite a few people who take an informed
interest in accessibility who are now advising *against* providing
them, but rather, recommending to give more thought to a logical
design of their navigation links, so that they don't get in the way of
accessing the content.

which I even use excessively. Unfortunately, there are collisions
involved with them. I have other accelerator collisions already (at
O/S-level).

Right.

Very interesting, Alan.

One of my so-called "possible projects", which I have carried in my Palm for
over a year, is dynamic allocation of accesskeys (on-line or off-line),
which may enables the user to browse pages without a mouse (and without
hitting TAB a zillion times). Since letters get underlined (or anything
else that can be reflected upon in a stylesheet), link assignments can be
quickly interpreted.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | "Have you compiled your kernel today?"
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
1:35pm up 12 days 22:55, 3 users, load average: 0.18, 0.09, 0.09

[Hostingforabuck]

If he decides to use our services, we will try to make the process as
quick and painless as possible.

Mike
www.Hostingforabuck.com
You could pay more....but why would you?

[Roy Schestowitz]

__/ [Hostingforabuck] on Thursday 08 September 2005 02:16 \__

If he decides to use our services, we will try to make the process as
quick and painless as possible.

Mike
www.Hostingforabuck.com
You could pay more....but why would you?

Hi Mike,

I didn't mean to discourge anyone from registerting with
www.Hostingforabuck.com. In fact, I am quite impressed by what I saw. Best
of luck to you guys!

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: 111111 X 111111 = 12345654321
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 74572E8E
5:20am up 15 days 7:12, 3 users, load average: 1.91, 1.47, 0.94

[Hostingforabuck]

Thanks for the praise. We are still a small outfit, and unlike some
hosts out there, actually believe in customer service. We are trying to
break the $4.95 a month mold that many hosts charge for their basic
plans, which many times offer less than our basic plan. Currently, it
is what the market will bear, not, what the market should be. We are of
the old school, we would rather make a dollar profit from 100 people,
than $100 from one person.
Mike
www.Hostingforabuck.com
You could pay more....but why would you?

[GEO Me]

On 9 Sep 2005 16:13:02 -0700, "Hostingforabuck"
<Ho*************@gmail.com> wrote:

Mike wrote:
Thanks for the praise. We are still a small outfit, and unlike some
hosts out there, actually believe in customer service. We are trying to
break the $4.95 a month mold that many hosts charge for their basic
plans, which many times offer less than our basic plan. Currently, it
is what the market will bear, not, what the market should be. We are of
the old school, we would rather make a dollar profit from 100 people,
than $100 from one person.

How do you register? It seems that one would have to allow
JavaScript and an unsecure connection in order to be able to use your
services.

Geo

[Hostingforabuck]

Our helpdesk script is the only one that uses java. Our registration
pages are all php. Payment is processed online through paypal, or via
snail-mail. We do not collect any type of financial information from
you. Nor do we release our customers information to anyone. Only a
Court order would force us to even reveal the names of any of our
subscribers.

[GEO Me]

On 10 Sep 2005 15:14:09 -0700, "Hostingforabuck"
<Ho*************@gmail.com> wrote:

Our helpdesk script is the only one that uses java. Our registration
pages are all php. Payment is processed online through paypal, or via
snail-mail. We do not collect any type of financial information from
you. Nor do we release our customers information to anyone. Only a
Court order would force us to even reveal the names of any of our
subscribers.

It could be because I am using an older browser, but I don't see
any way to register, or a message indicating other options to do so.

Thank you.
Geo

[Hostingforabuck]

Please email me at sa***@hostingforabuck.com and I will help you.

Mike
www.Hostingforabuck.com
You could pay more....but why would you?