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Kiosk Mode Development

P: n/a
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.

How for example must authoring be conducted to display a browser maximized
with no chrome? Is it even possible with ANY of the browsers?

<%= Clinton Gallagher
Jul 24 '05 #1
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33 Replies


P: n/a
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.


http://www.opera.com/support/tutoria...show/index.dml

--
Spartanicus
Jul 24 '05 #2

P: n/a
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.


Btw, wrong group, this belongs in ciwas.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 24 '05 #3

P: n/a
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?

<%= Clinton Gallagher

"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8p********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie...
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.


Btw, wrong group, this belongs in ciwas.

--
Spartanicus

Jul 24 '05 #4

P: n/a
clintonG wrote:
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?


Well, you are posting in c.i.w.a.html
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 24 '05 #5

P: n/a
Thanks... I'll go subscribe.

<%= Clinton Gallagher

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:Dy*****************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
clintonG wrote:
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?


Well, you are posting in c.i.w.a.html
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Jul 24 '05 #6

P: n/a

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:Dy*****************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
clintonG wrote:
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?


Well, you are posting in c.i.w.a.html
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.


Not being sarcastic, but what's the difference?

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #7

P: n/a
c.thornquist wrote:
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote
Well, you are posting in c.i.w.a.html
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.


Not being sarcastic, but what's the difference?


Between site-design and stylesheets?

Post questions or comments about .. designing sites: layout, etc.
The other is for stylesheet (CSS) questions.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 24 '05 #8

P: n/a
"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> writes:
--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.


Not being sarcastic, but what's the difference?


Not being sarcastic either, a bug tracking system is rarely left blank
(especially when it comes to long standing bugs involving spaces, or
even blanks).
--
-ebb
Jul 24 '05 #9

P: n/a
Eric B. Bednarz wrote:
"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> writes:
--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.


Not being sarcastic, but what's the difference?


Not being sarcastic either, a bug tracking system is rarely left blank
(especially when it comes to long standing bugs involving spaces, or
even blanks).


:-)

--
-b.t.s.
-This space intentionally left buggy.
Jul 24 '05 #10

P: n/a
in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, clintonG wrote:
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


Do not top post. To find what things mean, use google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=ciwas

Points to FAQs, which you should first read. The FAQ
http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html
tells you that you should not top post in ciwas either.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.
Support me, buy Opera:
https://secure.bmtmicro.com/opera/bu...tml?AID=882173
Jul 24 '05 #11

P: n/a
You ought to eat your own dog food you phoney hypocrite.
I cite the following from the same FAQ you pompous fools unreasonably
attempt to use to control and manipulate people...

"Articles offering items for sale and commercial advertisements"

That would mean you violate your own rules when you advertise the commercial
purchase of the Opera browser.

Finally, if you can show the contents of this newsgroup are being processed
by some automated process that would somehow be compromised by top posting I
would be more than willing to comply, otherwise I consider the need to avoid
top posting inhumane, unusable, and deprecated.

I will continue to post in a manner that is easy to read and use until such
time that the ridiculous demands to avoid doing so is made possible to argue
by members of the public that use this resource which is NOT PRIVATE
PROPERTY.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

"Lauri Raittila" <la***@raittila.cjb.net> wrote in message
news:MP************************@news.individual.ne t...
in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, clintonG wrote:
Thanks for the referral to Opera.
Btw, what the f*ck is a ciwas?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


Do not top post. To find what things mean, use google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=ciwas

Points to FAQs, which you should first read. The FAQ
http://css.nu/faq/ciwas-mFAQ.html
tells you that you should not top post in ciwas either.
--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.
Support me, buy Opera:
https://secure.bmtmicro.com/opera/bu...tml?AID=882173

Jul 24 '05 #12

P: n/a
clintonG wrote:
You ought to eat your own dog food you phoney hypocrite. I cite the
following from the same FAQ you pompous fools unreasonably attempt
to use to control and manipulate people...

"Articles offering items for sale and commercial advertisements"
"Articles". Not short, tasteful sigs.
That would mean you violate your own rules when you advertise the
commercial purchase of the Opera browser.
Hang on a minute ... [checks link in clintonG sig] ... looks to me as
if you are promoting your own business yourself. Does this make you a
hypocrite as well?
Finally, if you can show the contents of this newsgroup are being
processed by some automated process that would somehow be
compromised by top posting I would be more than willing to comply,
otherwise I consider the need to avoid top posting inhumane,
unusable, and deprecated.
Automated processes do not read and discuss and answer questions in
these newsgroups. People do.
I will continue to post in a manner that is easy to read and use
until such time that the ridiculous demands to avoid doing so is
made possible to argue by members of the public that use this
resource which is NOT PRIVATE PROPERTY.


You will continue to post in a manner that is easy to get yourself in
everyone's killfile...

open the front cover and begin reading there?
the back cover and end up at the front or do you
chapter one or do you start somewhere near
When reading a book, do you start at

I read somewhere (can't find link at the moment) where it was stated
that top-posting began when Outlook Express decided it wanted to be a
newsreader. The default location of the insertion point was at the top
and newbies didn't know they could/should press the PageDown key.

Ah. clintonG:
"X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527"

Lack of trimming compounds the problem. TOFU was born.
Text Oben Fullquote Unten (German)
Text Over, Fullquote Under

--
-bts
-Commercial advertisement: (oh wait, I'm retired. Shucks.)
Jul 24 '05 #13

P: n/a
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:01:31 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
<a.*********@example.invalid> wrote:
clintonG wrote: [...]
Finally, if you can show the contents of this newsgroup are being
processed by some automated process that would somehow be
compromised by top posting...


Google's archive system is designed to work best for threads of messages
that are selectively quoted and written in the same order of flow as a
normal "man to man" conversation.

It's a real pest to work through a thread of top posted messages when/if
one needs to go back to something that has been discussed some time
back.
I would be more than willing to comply...
Please do, you and we all will benefit from it in the long run.

[...]
I read somewhere (can't find link at the moment) where it was stated
that top-posting began when Outlook Express decided it wanted to be a
newsreader...
Yup, that's when the madness started.
...The default location of the insertion point was at the top
and newbies didn't know they could/should press the PageDown key.
It's not only that, most people don't know how to configure OE to behave
as close as it can to usenet traditions either. As installed "out of the
box" OE is set up to really misbehave, especially it makes it really
akward to do selective quoting of the previous post.

In short; "Outlook Express" is a misnom'er for "Usenet News client".
Ah. clintonG:
"X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527"


Yes, the guy needs help, here...

http://www.forteinc.com

...."Free Agent" is really free and one of the best available for Usenet,
or why not go to Mozilla to find out what's available from there?

http://www.mozilla.org

--
Rex
Jul 24 '05 #14

P: n/a
<snip />

Well, there goes your Google argument doesn't it?
..."Free Agent" is really free and one of the best available for Usenet,
or why not go to Mozilla to find out what's available from there?

http://www.mozilla.org

--
Rex


I used FreeAgent when it was in beta and after it was first released for a
short time. I have forgotten why I began using OE. From time to time I have
wanted to use another application but its not likely to happen any time soon
as I have too much to do for the time being.

As for my sig, its well within any accetable usage policy as we all know
sigs are often used to promote one's self and doing so -- reasonably -- has
always been 'acceptable' but again, to compare my sig with a blatant request
to engage in commerce and trying to argue the semantics of the varbiage
'Article' is simply hypocritical and phoney.

Finally, this whole topic has become OT. So better watch out or you crits
might end up in *my* kill file.
Scared yet? ;-)

<%= Clinton Gallagher

Jul 24 '05 #15

P: n/a

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:WK****************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
c.thornquist wrote:
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote
Well, you are posting in c.i.w.a.html
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.


Not being sarcastic, but what's the difference?


Between site-design and stylesheets?

Post questions or comments about .. designing sites: layout, etc.
The other is for stylesheet (CSS) questions.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Still don't understand why he was told to use the stylesheets group.

I ask because at times this group seems to serve solely as a mouthpiece for
the w3c.

Clinton's delivery was a bit saucy, but a little less attitude in replies
would go a long way toward developing better communication and more
participation. Maybe the "regulars" don't want more participation? That's
the impression I get.

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #16

P: n/a
c.thornquist wrote:
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote
c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.
Still don't understand why he was told to use the stylesheets
group.


Most likely the original mention of "ciwas" by Spartanicus was for
site-design, not stylesheets, as the question was related to designing
a site for a kiosk. Unfortunately, they both begin with "s".
I ask because at times this group seems to serve solely as a
mouthpiece for the w3c.
I don't find that to be true...
Clinton's delivery was a bit saucy, but a little less attitude in
replies would go a long way toward developing better communication
and more participation. Maybe the "regulars" don't want more
participation? That's the impression I get.


Only thing I could offer about that is these are technical groups, and
... smileys are not used frequently. Oh: :-)

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Jul 24 '05 #17

P: n/a
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:57:24 GMT, "clintonG"
<cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
<snip />
Well, there goes your Google argument doesn't it?
Who's argument? (another silliness of OE in display I take it, it has a
tendency to drop attributions that would indicate who wrote what)

But you did ask for a processor that needs info in a certain format not
to go nuts. I happen to think that the Google archive engine for Usenet
is such a processor.
..."Free Agent" is really free... [...] --
Rex


And another OE stupidity in display, it does not react on a correctly
formed "tear mark" but instead of cutting my sig out all together it
happily includes it as part of quoted content.

A "tear mark" as per long time Usenet conventions, is the character
string "-- " (dash,dash,space) on a line by it self starting in column
one.

Proper Usenet clients knows to automatically cut everything from that
tear mark and later and not include that content in the quoted part of a
message.
I used FreeAgent when it was in beta...
Lots has happened after that point in time, Forte has regained control
of their software and are actively working on updates. I have been using
their commercial version of Agent since it first came out, now last
updated in 2004, and that one now includes (and falls back to) FreeAgent
capacity if you decide not to purchase a license for Agent after your 30
day trial period.

[...]
As for my sig, its well within any accetable usage policy...
I have no idea what you are talking about here. I never commented on
your sig in the first place. Further, please know that my response to
you was written in "second hand" since I do not have your original post,
that BTS responded to, on my server.

Now, since BTS used a Usenet friendly way of quoting when he replied to
you, it was possible even for me to follow parts of the discussion and
make a few comments to both of you and BTS in one single message.

That's the benefit of the combo "unavailable messages on news servers"
and "correct Usenet behavior by others".
Finally, this whole topic has become OT.
Sure.
So better watch out or you crits might end up in *my* kill file.
Scared yet? ;-)


Nope, go ahead if you feel compelled to ;-)

--
Rex
Jul 24 '05 #18

P: n/a
What is missing here is why I would be told my comments were OT. Maybe
somebody thinks I am the household dog told to play with his bone in the
kitchen instead of on the living room carpet?

Does the name of this newsgroup not include the word 'authoring' and the
word 'html?' Because it is obvious that the conclusion must be in the
affirmative where in the FAQ does it state which of the poo-butts that would
presume to refer anybody offsite is designated to determine what is topical?

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:j3****************@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
c.thornquist wrote:
"Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <a.*********@example.invalid> wrote
> c.i.w.a.site-design or c.i.w.a.stylesheets is a ciwas.

Still don't understand why he was told to use the stylesheets
group.


Most likely the original mention of "ciwas" by Spartanicus was for
site-design, not stylesheets, as the question was related to designing a
site for a kiosk. Unfortunately, they both begin with "s".
I ask because at times this group seems to serve solely as a
mouthpiece for the w3c.


I don't find that to be true...
Clinton's delivery was a bit saucy, but a little less attitude in
replies would go a long way toward developing better communication
and more participation. Maybe the "regulars" don't want more
participation? That's the impression I get.


Only thing I could offer about that is these are technical groups, and ..
smileys are not used frequently. Oh: :-)

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Jul 24 '05 #19

P: n/a
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
What is missing here is why I would be told my comments were OT. Maybe
somebody thinks I am the household dog told to play with his bone in the
kitchen instead of on the living room carpet?

Does the name of this newsgroup not include the word 'authoring' and the
word 'html?'


Your query pertained to css only, no relation to html, it therefore
belongs in c.i.w.a.stylesheets

Feel free to leave if you don't like the rules.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 24 '05 #20

P: n/a

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:vz*******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.

How for example must authoring be conducted to display a browser maximized
with no chrome? Is it even possible with ANY of the browsers?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


Here's a thread about opening with no chrome:
http://rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?threa...xt=28085#28085

That thread is linked to a possible solution:
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/t1092876003

I found some commercial kiosk links (there are many more on the WWW). You
may want to browse them for info about development.

http://touchscreens.com/products-kiosk.html
http://www.touchscreens.com/
http://www.kioskmarketplace.com/
http://www.1stkiosk.com/kbuilder.html

Carla

Jul 24 '05 #21

P: n/a
What follows is my original post for this thread devoid of any mention of
CSS. Furthermore there is no CSS declaration to modify chrome on the browser
other than perhaps scrollbars. Furthermore, CSS may or may not be relevant
to issues that may or may not be relevant to authors whose work is to be
displayed in 'kiosk mode' which for my current projects are to be displayed
on displays such as 42" LCD and larger interactive 'white boards.'

<!--
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk mode
configuration are wanted and appreciated.

How for example must authoring be conducted to display a browser maximized
with no chrome? Is it even possible with ANY of the browsers?
-->

So that proves you're a liar who can feel free to kiss my top-posting @ss
Spartipunk

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

"Spartanicus" <in*****@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ap********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie...
"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
What is missing here is why I would be told my comments were OT. Maybe
somebody thinks I am the household dog told to play with his bone in the
kitchen instead of on the living room carpet?

Does the name of this newsgroup not include the word 'authoring' and the
word 'html?'


Your query pertained to css only, no relation to html, it therefore
belongs in c.i.w.a.stylesheets

Feel free to leave if you don't like the rules.

--
Spartanicus

Jul 24 '05 #22

P: n/a

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:kj38e.19743$Bb3.17392@attbi_s22...

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:vz*******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Your comments or referrals to documents regarding authoring for kiosk
mode configuration are wanted and appreciated.

How for example must authoring be conducted to display a browser
maximized with no chrome? Is it even possible with ANY of the browsers?

<%= Clinton Gallagher


Here's a thread about opening with no chrome:
http://rhizome.org/thread.rhiz?threa...xt=28085#28085

That thread is linked to a possible solution:
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/t1092876003

I found some commercial kiosk links (there are many more on the WWW). You
may want to browse them for info about development.

http://touchscreens.com/products-kiosk.html
http://www.touchscreens.com/
http://www.kioskmarketplace.com/
http://www.1stkiosk.com/kbuilder.html

Carla


Thank you Carla. I'll review each and every referral. So many resources. So
little time. :-)

As the circumstances of my most recent concern emerge, I've learned it is
actually possible to configure IE to run without any chrome at all by
running: iexplore -k [url].

Apparently Opera (which I have yet to use) has some features that enable it
to run oin 'kiosk mode' but they appear to be more of a slide show type of
presentation that may require interactivity.

In fact, it may be better for authors to adopt the term 'modal' as not all
content is neccessarily displayed on a kiosk. For example, my current
projects call for authoring content to be displayed on 42" LCD and larger
interactive 'white boards.' Given any reasonable experience as an author I'm
confident you understand how new devices can and do affect authoring. For
example, some of the LCDs apparently run in fixed resolution modes.

There are also emerging security issues I have just become aware of.
Apparently certain page elements make it possible to hack through kiosk mode
somehow. I've yet to learn the fine points an author would want to know
about in this context. Maybe the URLs you refer to will lead to more insight
in this regard.

What remains to be learned is how authors have learned to use such modal
functionality which is why I posted to this newsgroup to begin discussing
the context. Thank you for your comments.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
Jul 24 '05 #23

P: n/a

"Jan Roland Eriksson" <jr****@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:4p********************************@4ax.com...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:57:24 GMT, "clintonG"
<cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote:
<snip />
Well, there goes your Google argument doesn't it?


Who's argument? (another silliness of OE in display I take it, it has a
tendency to drop attributions that would indicate who wrote what)

But you did ask for a processor that needs info in a certain format not
to go nuts. I happen to think that the Google archive engine for Usenet
is such a processor.
..."Free Agent" is really free... [...] --
Rex


And another OE stupidity in display, it does not react on a correctly
formed "tear mark" but instead of cutting my sig out all together it
happily includes it as part of quoted content.

A "tear mark" as per long time Usenet conventions, is the character
string "-- " (dash,dash,space) on a line by it self starting in column
one.

Proper Usenet clients knows to automatically cut everything from that
tear mark and later and not include that content in the quoted part of a
message.
I used FreeAgent when it was in beta...


Lots has happened after that point in time, Forte has regained control
of their software and are actively working on updates. I have been using
their commercial version of Agent since it first came out, now last
updated in 2004, and that one now includes (and falls back to) FreeAgent
capacity if you decide not to purchase a license for Agent after your 30
day trial period.

[...]
As for my sig, its well within any accetable usage policy...


I have no idea what you are talking about here. I never commented on
your sig in the first place. Further, please know that my response to
you was written in "second hand" since I do not have your original post,
that BTS responded to, on my server.

Now, since BTS used a Usenet friendly way of quoting when he replied to
you, it was possible even for me to follow parts of the discussion and
make a few comments to both of you and BTS in one single message.

That's the benefit of the combo "unavailable messages on news servers"
and "correct Usenet behavior by others".
Finally, this whole topic has become OT.


Sure.
So better watch out or you crits might end up in *my* kill file.
Scared yet? ;-)


Nope, go ahead if you feel compelled to ;-)

--
Rex


You know there is always something to learn. I never knew the function of
the tear mark. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I always liked
FreeAgent actually and as I've stated -- somewhere -- I don't remember why
or how I got into the habit of using OE. Its not likely I can justify doing
right so right this minute but I am going to dump OE. Really :-)

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
Jul 24 '05 #24

P: n/a
"clintonG" <cs*********@metromilwaukee.com> wrote:
What follows is my original post for this thread devoid of any mention of
CSS.
It was also devoid of any mention of HTML.
Furthermore there is no CSS declaration to modify chrome on the browser
other than perhaps scrollbars.
Nor is there any HTML to do any of that.
Furthermore, CSS may or may not be relevant
to issues that may or may not be relevant to authors whose work is to be
displayed in 'kiosk mode' which for my current projects are to be displayed
on displays such as 42" LCD and larger interactive 'white boards.'
CSS may or may not be relevant (though the people who use full screen
presentation tools such as Opera Show or Eric Meyer's S5 certainly
seem to think that CSS is very relevant).

On the other hand, HTML is certainly not relevant, at least as far as
there are no differences between the HTML used for a "normal" web page
that may or may not be seen in a kiosk application and a web page that
will only be seen in a kisok app.

HTML is for marking up the structure of a document, that structure is
the same regardless of the medium on which the document is displayed -
that's the whole point of HTML: to be platform independent.

So whilst your question may have some relevance to CSS (e.g. what's
the best set of units to use when you know the exact display
dimensions) I can think of only one thing that is relevant to HTML
(namely, don't use the target attrbute to send content to new windows
because in a kiosk setting the idea of windows doesn't exist).

Can you think of any HTML related issues that are relevant?
How for example must authoring be conducted to display a browser maximized
with no chrome? Is it even possible with ANY of the browsers?


Many modern browsers can be put into a (more-or-less-)chromless, full
screen mode. Pressing F11 does so for most Windows browsers.

One thing to watch out for is, oh sorry, that's a CSS issue and you're
apparantly not interested in those.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
Jul 24 '05 #25

P: n/a

"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net> wrote in message
news:ft********************************@4ax.com...
"clintonG" <cs*********@metromilwaukee.com> wrote:
What follows is my original post for this thread devoid of any mention of
CSS.
It was also devoid of any mention of HTML.


Many posts here are devoid of mentioning HTML, yet those posters aren't
immediately told they are off topic.

Furthermore there is no CSS declaration to modify chrome on the browser
other than perhaps scrollbars.


Nor is there any HTML to do any of that.


There is javascript, though, yet he was told to use CSS. He's asking or
searching for what works & what doesn't work. Can't you tell?

<snip>
CSS may or may not be relevant (though the people who use full screen
presentation tools such as Opera Show or Eric Meyer's S5 certainly
seem to think that CSS is very relevant).
Those people choose CSS. That's just one choice. Is it the only way to go?
Many, maybe most, authors still use HTML for presentation. If that topic is
not allowed here, please tell us instead of telling everyone who builds
outside of w3c recommendations that they are stupid and/or wrong. Not you,
but I've seen it often in my short time here. On the other hand, HTML is certainly not relevant, at least as far as
there are no differences between the HTML used for a "normal" web page
that may or may not be seen in a kiosk application and a web page that
will only be seen in a kisok app.

HTML is for marking up the structure of a document, that structure is
the same regardless of the medium on which the document is displayed -
that's the whole point of HTML: to be platform independent.
That's your opinion. Doesn't mean part of his answer is not in HTML.
<snip> Many modern browsers can be put into a (more-or-less-)chromless, full
screen mode. Pressing F11 does so for most Windows browsers.

One thing to watch out for is, oh sorry, that's a CSS issue and you're
apparantly not interested in those.


There is a security issue with F11. CSS addresses that?

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #26

P: n/a

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:71******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
<snip> There are also emerging security issues I have just become aware of.
Apparently certain page elements make it possible to hack through kiosk
mode somehow. I've yet to learn the fine points an author would want to
know about in this context. Maybe the URLs you refer to will lead to more
insight in this regard.

What remains to be learned is how authors have learned to use such modal
functionality which is why I posted to this newsgroup to begin discussing
the context. Thank you for your comments.

<%= Clinton Gallagher


I caught the security issue, too. Our projects sound different, in that mine
will have a touchscreen. But the size creates new design considerations. I
didn't find many articles about developing kiosks. Lots of commercial links
to pre-built kiosks & related software.

Good luck:)

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #27

P: n/a
"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote:
"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net> wrote:
"clintonG" <cs*********@metromilwaukee.com> wrote: CSS may or may not be relevant (though the people who use full screen
presentation tools such as Opera Show or Eric Meyer's S5 certainly
seem to think that CSS is very relevant).


Those people choose CSS. That's just one choice. Is it the only way to go?
Many, maybe most, authors still use HTML for presentation.


Sure, but HTML's presentation capabilities are so limited compared to
CSS that the difference between desktop window and kiosk are lost in
the wash.
On the other hand, HTML is certainly not relevant, at least as far as
there are no differences between the HTML used for a "normal" web page
that may or may not be seen in a kiosk application and a web page that
will only be seen in a kisok app.

HTML is for marking up the structure of a document, that structure is
the same regardless of the medium on which the document is displayed -
that's the whole point of HTML: to be platform independent.


That's your opinion. Doesn't mean part of his answer is not in HTML.


No, it's not my opinion. It's the stated aims of the people who
invented and developed HTML.
Many modern browsers can be put into a (more-or-less-)chromless, full
screen mode. Pressing F11 does so for most Windows browsers.

One thing to watch out for is, oh sorry, that's a CSS issue and you're
apparantly not interested in those.


There is a security issue with F11. CSS addresses that?


No, different issue.

Steve

--
"My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

Steve Pugh <st***@pugh.net> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
Jul 24 '05 #28

P: n/a

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:_5f8e.20016$8Z6.4075@attbi_s21...

"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net> wrote in message
news:ft********************************@4ax.com...
"clintonG" <cs*********@metromilwaukee.com> wrote:
What follows is my original post for this thread devoid of any mention of
CSS.


It was also devoid of any mention of HTML.


Many posts here are devoid of mentioning HTML, yet those posters aren't
immediately told they are off topic.

Furthermore there is no CSS declaration to modify chrome on the browser
other than perhaps scrollbars.


Nor is there any HTML to do any of that.


There is javascript, though, yet he was told to use CSS. He's asking or
searching for what works & what doesn't work. Can't you tell?

<snip>
CSS may or may not be relevant (though the people who use full screen
presentation tools such as Opera Show or Eric Meyer's S5 certainly
seem to think that CSS is very relevant).


Those people choose CSS. That's just one choice. Is it the only way to go?
Many, maybe most, authors still use HTML for presentation. If that topic
is not allowed here, please tell us instead of telling everyone who builds
outside of w3c recommendations that they are stupid and/or wrong. Not you,
but I've seen it often in my short time here.

On the other hand, HTML is certainly not relevant, at least as far as
there are no differences between the HTML used for a "normal" web page
that may or may not be seen in a kiosk application and a web page that
will only be seen in a kisok app.

HTML is for marking up the structure of a document, that structure is
the same regardless of the medium on which the document is displayed -
that's the whole point of HTML: to be platform independent.


That's your opinion. Doesn't mean part of his answer is not in HTML.

<snip>
Many modern browsers can be put into a (more-or-less-)chromless, full
screen mode. Pressing F11 does so for most Windows browsers.

One thing to watch out for is, oh sorry, that's a CSS issue and you're
apparantly not interested in those.


There is a security issue with F11. CSS addresses that?

Carla


We are finally discussing the context of how HTML and authoring (will or
will not - can or can not) affect the authoring process when using a modal
browser configuration, i.e kiosk mode noting again that I prefer to simplify
and ask others to support future discussions of this context as simply modal
in the sense that the emergent platforms are not neccessarily kiosks but do
require the browser to be operated in the same or a similar mode as a kiosk.
Comments to the contrary?

Using HTML, CSS or JavaScript or any other client-side language is going to
effect the authoring decision making process somehow. Those emergent
platforms are LCD, Plasma and Interactive White-Boards (IWB) all which I am
learning affect authoring decisions. The marketing terminology would refer
to the platforms as 'digital signage' and leave at that.

Now on to some questionable points of discussion...

Which font may be best for such platforms. Are the TV broadcasters trying to
tell us something when they use sans-serif for just about everything? Is
ClearType a good choice? What does is do to a given declared font that may
be optimal for CRT but prove marginal or disasterous for these other display
types?

Color schemas? Probably not too relevant until I hear some claim that light
(white even) text provides the best readability when displayed on a drak
(black) background.

I've already established font size is an issue as LCD's and perhaps Plasma
may run at fixed resolutions. How many lines of text is determine legible
and at what declared size? At the moment, clients as we all know want to
stuff 5 lbs. of cookies into a 3 lb. bag. I've stood in front of an IWB and
the resolution is okay but to make real judgement calls we would need lots
of time trying different choices.

<%= Clinton Gallagher


Jul 24 '05 #29

P: n/a

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:jef8e.20025$8Z6.13703@attbi_s21...

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:71******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

<snip>
There are also emerging security issues I have just become aware of.
Apparently certain page elements make it possible to hack through kiosk
mode somehow. I've yet to learn the fine points an author would want to
know about in this context. Maybe the URLs you refer to will lead to more
insight in this regard.

What remains to be learned is how authors have learned to use such modal
functionality which is why I posted to this newsgroup to begin discussing
the context. Thank you for your comments.

<%= Clinton Gallagher


I caught the security issue, too. Our projects sound different, in that
mine will have a touchscreen. But the size creates new design
considerations. I didn't find many articles about developing kiosks. Lots
of commercial links to pre-built kiosks & related software.

Good luck:)

Carla


We're clearly ahead of the pack here.
The reseller that invited me to be the designer/developer is actually one
that resells Interactive White-Boards (IWB). Smart Technologies [1] as a
matter of fact. We have agreed to bid to the client's interest in the use of
LCD as they no doubt think they can have their cake and eat it too and the
first presentation will be authored to that display device. At the moment
the spec is Sony FWD-42LX1 that I believe runs 1366x768 fixed resolution but
this is an assumption. Sony has a marginally useful website and finding
actual documentation has been difficult so far.

When the client leanrs (from me) that even a 42" LCD is insufficient to
quantitatively display what they want we may get back to talking about an
IWB deployment.

So what vendor are you working with at the moment Carla? Are you using an
over-lay for interactivity?
My vertical is currently hotels. You may have said already but yours is
what?

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

[1] http://www.smarttech.com/
Jul 24 '05 #30

P: n/a

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:SN******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:jef8e.20025$8Z6.13703@attbi_s21...
<snip> So what vendor are you working with at the moment Carla? Are you using an
over-lay for interactivity?
My vertical is currently hotels. You may have said already but yours is
what?

You know much more than I do about this stuff. I know almost nothing & may
have to opt out of the project. It's still months away, so I have time to
study up, but my teenagers are needing me (they are misbehaving). I built a
website for a clinic which is expanding. When the new buildings are
completed, they want a kiosk in the lobby that will allow visitors to get
directions (printed out maybe) to the various department locations. They
want the interface to look similar to the website. Realistically, I think
I'd be in over my head. Just from what you've written I suspect my knowledge
is too limited. I may direct them to those commercial kiosk sites I posted
links to.

I just found an example of a hospital kiosk:
http://www.rockmedia.com/medical%20h...%20kiosks.html Doesn't the woman
look like she's straining to decipher the info on the screen? And what an
awful design:) I'd like to take on the project, but I'm too distracted at
present. Plus, I almost always charge too little for my HTML work. Bidding
on something new to me could be disastrous. I'm pretty good at design &
coding (table use aside;), but terrible at business.

I may email you directly about the project, if I decide to take the job.

Thanks,

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #31

P: n/a

"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net> wrote in message
news:ir********************************@4ax.com...
"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote:
"Steve Pugh" <st***@pugh.net> wrote:
"clintonG" <cs*********@metromilwaukee.com> wrote:

<snip> Sure, but HTML's presentation capabilities are so limited compared to
CSS that the difference between desktop window and kiosk are lost in
the wash.
Readers may enjoy these opinions. One for & one against CSS:
For: http://www.thebroadroom.net/tech/stylesheets/#1
Against: http://www.decloak.com/Dev/CSSTables/CSS_Tables_01.aspx

Actually, they refer to CSS versus tables. Ironically, the 'against' author
uses stylesheets:)
No, it's not my opinion. It's the stated aims of the people who
invented and developed HTML.


Would it be too involved for you to cite the inventors? It would make for
interesting reading, but it's not that important.

This author made a project out of building identical pages (one with tables,
the other with CSS) and posted it online. Here's his conclusion:

"CSS and standards-based design take the match. One look at the source of
each design is enough to make me choose this one. CSS offers multiple other
benefits, mostly having to do with accessibility. But, ultimately, this is
about me being lazy. If I made this design with tables, and the client
contacted me one year later to request changes, I'd tell him I joined the
foreign legion and flee the country. If I made it with CSS, I'd give it a
shot without thinking twice." from:
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/tables-vs-css

It's a fun read.

Thanks,

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #32

P: n/a

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:hOl8e.20509$xL4.17552@attbi_s72...

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:SN******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

"c.thornquist" <c.**********@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:jef8e.20025$8Z6.13703@attbi_s21...

<snip>
So what vendor are you working with at the moment Carla? Are you using an
over-lay for interactivity?
My vertical is currently hotels. You may have said already but yours is
what?

You know much more than I do about this stuff. I know almost nothing & may
have to opt out of the project. It's still months away, so I have time to
study up, but my teenagers are needing me (they are misbehaving). I built
a website for a clinic which is expanding. When the new buildings are
completed, they want a kiosk in the lobby that will allow visitors to get
directions (printed out maybe) to the various department locations. They
want the interface to look similar to the website. Realistically, I think
I'd be in over my head. Just from what you've written I suspect my
knowledge is too limited. I may direct them to those commercial kiosk
sites I posted links to.

I just found an example of a hospital kiosk:
http://www.rockmedia.com/medical%20h...%20kiosks.html Doesn't the
woman look like she's straining to decipher the info on the screen? And
what an awful design:) I'd like to take on the project, but I'm too
distracted at present. Plus, I almost always charge too little for my HTML
work. Bidding on something new to me could be disastrous. I'm pretty good
at design & coding (table use aside;), but terrible at business.

I may email you directly about the project, if I decide to take the job.

Thanks,

Carla


Yea, I agree, the woman in the image actually looks as if she is looking
down through her bifolds but just as likely, the image is a composite.
Somebody probably lifted the woman from somewhere and overlayed her image to
create a composite which is why the focal point of the subject in the
composition appears skewed.

Please do mail me and don't worry about the modal (kiosk) phase of the
project. Build credibility with the client by simply telling them how you
think and feel. Honesty really is the best policy and it really does build
credibility. Besides, from what you explain it doesn't sound too complicated
at all and you could tell them you'd like to do the next phase of the
project as a joint venture. I'm a degreed architect and have been chomping
at the bit for years talking to clients about interactive floor plan
projects and now it seems the markets are catching up with me. :-)

If you want to observe one of two approaches I would recommend check out
Adobe's SVG Zone [1]. The SVG plug-in is required. FYI SVG is a work in
progress as a W3C standard. Then check out the "Visual Building Search" [2]
and see if your imagination doesn't run wild.

--
<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee "Regional Information Services"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

[1] http://www.adobe.com/svg/main.html
[2] http://www.adobe.com/svg/demos/main.html

Jul 24 '05 #33

P: n/a

"clintonG" <cs*********@REMOVETHISTEXTmetromilwaukee.com> wrote in message
news:2x******************@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
<snip> If you want to observe one of two approaches I would recommend check out
Adobe's SVG Zone [1]. The SVG plug-in is required. FYI SVG is a work in
progress as a W3C standard. Then check out the "Visual Building Search"
[2] and see if your imagination doesn't run wild. <snip> [1] http://www.adobe.com/svg/main.html
[2] http://www.adobe.com/svg/demos/main.html


Thanks for the links. I already told the "powers that be" that I knew
nothing about creating a touch screen. They didn't seem too worried, but my
main concern is that I don't know how much to bid on large projects. I'm
sticking with small sites for now. Too much stress in my life already. If I
was younger, with fewer children, maybe:)

Thanks much, Clinton.

Carla
Jul 24 '05 #34

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