html tags <fig> and <overlay>

[Ross]

it seems that it is only supported by w3c but not IE or netscape, but what
is a w3c browser ?

[Leif K-Brooks]

Ross wrote:

it seems that it is only supported by w3c but not IE or netscape, but what
is a w3c browser ?

Back in the day (1995), the W3C proposed a standard for a new version of
HTML: version 3.0. It had advanced features; too advanced, in fact, for
the browsers of the day. A few months after the initial HTML 3.0 draft,
it was withdrawn for lack of browser support.

In 1996, a more realistic HTML 3.2 standard was proposed. It omitted the
FIG and OVERLAY elements, along with some others. Today's browsers
support HTML 4.0, a direct descendant of HTML 3.2, and therefor have a
lack of support for FIG and OVERLAY.

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one. Opera probably
has the best support, with Mozilla and Konqueror being close second and
thirds -- IE comes in at a distant fourth -- but no browser has perfect
support for standards.

[Arjun Ray]

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:36:22 -0500, Leif K-Brooks wrote:

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one.

True. There *was* one that "belonged" to the W3C, called Arena. It was
intended to be a testbed platform for HTML exensions. It supported FIG
and OVERLAY, among other HTML 3.0 features - not surprisingly, as Dave
Raggett was both the original developer of Arena and the principal author
of the HTML 3.0 spec document. :-)

Arena debuted at WWW Geneva (May 94), demonstrating "advanced features"
such as text-flow around images (part of the FIG demonstration) and TABLE.
(No, folks, Netscape wasn't the first, and AAMOF, Arena wasn't either -
Pei Wei had implemented TABLE in Viola in March 94.)

One other browser which had impressive support for HTML 3.0 (including the
Math extensions) was Bernd Richter's UdiWWW.

None of these browsers went anywhere because the world was firmly in the
grip of the Netscape craze. This was especially unfortunate in the case
of Viola, which was impossibly ahead of its time. It had applets - of a
different kind, of course - and scripting in 1994, for example. (One very
clueful person remarked, in early 95, that "Java is the coolest thing
since Viola.")

All ancient history, of course.

[Ross]

thanks two nice critics. so what can i do now to imitate the effect of <fig>
and <overlay>? thanks again in advance!!

"Arjun Ray" <ar**@nmds.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:pa****************************@nmds.com.inval id...

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:36:22 -0500, Leif K-Brooks wrote:

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one.

True. There *was* one that "belonged" to the W3C, called Arena. It was
intended to be a testbed platform for HTML exensions. It supported FIG
and OVERLAY, among other HTML 3.0 features - not surprisingly, as Dave
Raggett was both the original developer of Arena and the principal author
of the HTML 3.0 spec document. :-)

Arena debuted at WWW Geneva (May 94), demonstrating "advanced features"
such as text-flow around images (part of the FIG demonstration) and TABLE.
(No, folks, Netscape wasn't the first, and AAMOF, Arena wasn't either -
Pei Wei had implemented TABLE in Viola in March 94.)

One other browser which had impressive support for HTML 3.0 (including the
Math extensions) was Bernd Richter's UdiWWW.

None of these browsers went anywhere because the world was firmly in the
grip of the Netscape craze. This was especially unfortunate in the case
of Viola, which was impossibly ahead of its time. It had applets - of a
different kind, of course - and scripting in 1994, for example. (One very
clueful person remarked, in early 95, that "Java is the coolest thing
since Viola.")

All ancient history, of course.

[Sander Tekelenburg]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In article <33*************@individual.net>,
Leif K-Brooks <eu*****@ecritters.biz> wrote:

[...]

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser
that's compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one.
Opera probably has the best support, with Mozilla and Konqueror
being close second and thirds -- IE comes in at a distant fourth
-- but no browser has perfect support for standards.

Indeed. Plus of course it depends a lot on which W3C standard you're
talking about. Relevant to this newsgroup is HTML, and none of the
above mentioned browsers offer as complete HTML support as iCab[*].
(And even iCab's HTML support isn't complete.)

[*] <http://www.icab.de/>
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Version: PGP 8.1 - not licensed for commercial use: www.pgp.com

iQA/AwUBQc/iw+sywKfXgqKdEQLEcQCgtp+YDKYvkVfAtHPVKevg8nRUgogAo On6
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--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

[Lars Eighner]

In our last episode, <33*************@individual.net>, the
lovely and talented Leif K-Brooks broadcast on
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one. Opera probably
has the best support, with Mozilla and Konqueror being close second and
thirds -- IE comes in at a distant fourth -- but no browser has perfect
support for standards.

What's Amaya? Chopped liver?
--
Lars Eighner ei*****@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/
"There are some people that if they don't know, you just can't tell 'em."
-- Louis Armstrong

[Leif K-Brooks]

Lars Eighner wrote:

In our last episode, <33*************@individual.net>, the
lovely and talented Leif K-Brooks broadcast on
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one. Opera probably
has the best support, with Mozilla and Konqueror being close second and
thirds -- IE comes in at a distant fourth -- but no browser has perfect
support for standards.

What's Amaya? Chopped liver?

A Web browser developed by the W3C with relatively decent, but still
imperfect, support for Web standards.

[Spartanicus]

Lars Eighner <ei*****@io.com> wrote:

As for "a W3C browser", assuming that you really mean "a browser that's
compliant to W3C-authored standards", there isn't one. Opera probably
has the best support, with Mozilla and Konqueror being close second and
thirds -- IE comes in at a distant fourth -- but no browser has perfect
support for standards.

What's Amaya? Chopped liver?

Where's the smiley? I can only assume that you were joking, that or
you've never tried feeding anything but the most simplistic code to
Amaya.

--
Spartanicus

[Arjun Ray]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:19:17 +0800, Ross wrote:

thanks two nice critics.
Then permit me to ask you nicely to please read this:

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

Chances are, you've fallen into the TOFU habit because you're using that
execrable piece of trash by Microsoft. You'll be better off with a real
newsreader, of which there are plenty:

http://www.newsreaders.com/
so what can i do now to imitate the effect of <fig> and <overlay>?

For <overlay>, you're out of luck, though CSS trickery might allow you
move one image on top of another (ask in the stylesheets group). For
<fig>, the official HTML specs claim that <object> is a superset that
includes the functionality of <fig>. Browser support, as usual, is
another story.

[Arjun Ray]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 05:10:32 +0000, I wrote:

None of these browsers went anywhere because the world was firmly in the
grip of the Netscape craze. This was especially unfortunate in the case
of Viola, which was impossibly ahead of its time. It had applets - of a
different kind, of course - and scripting in 1994, for example. (One very
clueful person remarked, in early 95, that "Java is the coolest thing
since Viola.")

I notice that Pei Wei's old home page is still alive:

http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/

which links to

http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~wei/viola/violaHome.html

Check out "The Viola Paper". It was included as a Postscript file in the
viola940323.tar.gz distribution. Multi-column layouts, applets (the polarity
of the chessboard can be fixed by changing two lines in the violascript),
and more. Before Netscape was even a company.

What the Mosaic spawn have done to the WWW is a technological disaster of
the first magnitude.