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TD cell not stretching to accomodate content (Moz 1.8a4)

[Initially posted to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html, before I realized
I was in the wrong place and this group made more sense.]

I'm trying to figure out if this is my bug or a Gecko bug. Check out my
test here:

http://microprecisionautomation.com/test.html

The left cell looks ok in IE6 but in Moz 1.8a4 the zip code sticks out into
the right cell, and then the image in the right cell overlays it. It looks
like the cell width is locking to the h1 element, not the widest element in
the cell.

What are the rules for rendering as the displayable space narrows? I tried
both 4.01 and 4.01 Transitional in the doctype but didn't see improvement
removing the "Transitional". Should I be using another DTD? IE6 does
steal space from only the right padding of the left cell, ultimately
obscuring the final two glyphs of the zip code before the right page margin
starts to obscure the cell. Why doesn't it keep the cell at some minimum
size and impose scrolling when it hits that limit?

(BTW, this is also my first attempt at CSS.)
Jul 21 '05 #1
11 2979
Kenneth Porter <sh*************@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
I'm trying to figure out if this is my bug or a Gecko bug. Check out my
test here:

http://microprecisionautomation.com/test.html

The left cell looks ok in IE6 but in Moz 1.8a4 the zip code sticks out into
the right cell


Looks like a Gecko bug, changing the left/right css cellpadding to
another unit such as pixels seems to solve it.

Btw,
1) Don't use tables for layout
2)
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht....com/test.html
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 21 '05 #2
Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:ic********************************@news.spart anicus.utvinternet.ie:
Btw,
1) Don't use tables for layout
Ok, haven't yet found a tutorial that gives the alternative.
2)
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...tomation.com/t
est.html
Whoops, forgot to validate again after some tweaking with the doctype.
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.


How do I treat phone numbers and zip+4 codes as non-breaking tokens?
Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the "official" Unicode
character for that purpose.
Jul 21 '05 #3
Kenneth Porter <sh*************@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.
How do I treat phone numbers and zip+4 codes as non-breaking tokens?


Size the width of the containing block using em units so that there's
enough room for the text and you won't need to guard against silly
unicode line breaking rules adopted by some browsers.
Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the "official" Unicode
character for that purpose.


Unicode fonts are not available on all systems, the typical W9x system
won't have a unicode font installed.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 21 '05 #4
Kenneth Porter wrote:
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.


How do I treat phone numbers and zip+4 codes as non-breaking tokens?
Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the "official" Unicode
character for that purpose.


You could define a class:
..nobr { white-space:nowrap; }
--
jmm dash list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)
Jul 21 '05 #5
jmm-list-gn <jm***************@sohnen-moe.com> wrote:
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.


How do I treat phone numbers and zip+4 codes as non-breaking tokens?
Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the "official" Unicode
character for that purpose.


You could define a class:
.nobr { white-space:nowrap; }


Which may not work since browsers may (should?) treat unicode line
breaking rules as being more important. Opera is one example, not sure
about others.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 21 '05 #6
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Spartanicus wrote:
Kenneth Porter <sh*************@sewingwitch.com> wrote:
Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the "official" Unicode
character for that purpose.
Unicode fonts are not available on all systems,


In theory, that shouldn't really matter. A properly designed browser
should be able to pick and choose from the available fonts, and -
where necessary - pick out substitute characters for those which it
hasn't got. Some do this better than others, for sure.
the typical W9x system won't have a unicode font installed.


The "typical" Windows system of -any- heritage, 9x or NT, (especially
the default configuration for the USA) seems to get fonts installed
with quite a meagre repertoire, by default. It was astonishing to me
just how many new symbols sprang into life when I installed Japanese
"language" support. I can't read Japanese, and had no need for the
Japanese writing system, but the fonts also had a remarkable range of
Unicode symbols of various kinds that didn't come with the standard
Western installation.

However, the specific topic here is getting interesting Unicode
characters not so much for their visual appearance as for their
special properties. Just as a browser would be able to represent the
mathematical summation operator (a separate character in Unicode) by
falling-back to a Greek upper-case Sigma if necessary, I'd want and
expect a browser to render a no-break hyphen by honouring its no-break
property and then, if it had to, by using some other glyph, let's say
hyphen-minus, to represent it. That's what Lynx does, why can't other
browsers catch up with Lynx?

all the best
Jul 21 '05 #7
Spartanicus <me@privacy.net> wrote:
jmm-list-gn <jm***************@sohnen-moe.com> wrote:
3) ‑ glyphs are not available on my system.

How do I treat phone numbers and zip+4 codes as non-breaking
tokens? Googling for non-breaking hyphen turned up 8209 as the
"official" Unicode character for that purpose.


You could define a class: .nobr { white-space:nowrap; }


Which may not work since browsers may (should?) treat unicode line
breaking rules as being more important. Opera is one example, not
sure about others.


I cannot find the article you are commenting on, and neither can Google
Groups (which proves little these days of course). Is this related to
some old thread? (I vaguely remember some discussion like this, and I
also remember having recommended the ITU-T E.123 conformant method of
using no-break spaces as separators in phone numbers, thereby avoiding
this problem en passant.)

Anyway, Opera 7.54 seems to obey white-space: nowrap so that normal
Ascii hyphens are not treated as breaking. Which behavior on which
version of Opera are you referring to?

The Unicode line breaking rules are a real mess, and browsers mostly
implement them cluelessly and inconsistently. But I don't think the
idea never was that those general rules should be enforced on text.
Rather, they are default rules, which permit some line breaks and
forbid others, without implying all line break positions allowed
thereby should be actually used (e.g., that "-x" should be broken into
"-" and "x" if "-" fits at the end of the current line but "-x"
doesn't). Moreover, the idea is that may also be explicitly overridden
by "higher level" protocols, such as markup or style sheets.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Jul 21 '05 #8
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
The Unicode line breaking rules are a real mess, and browsers mostly
implement them cluelessly and inconsistently.


If you think that's bad, you should see what happens when mixed
rtl and ltr content gets line-broken ;-}

Jul 21 '05 #9
"Jukka K. Korpela" <jk******@cs.tut.fi> wrote:
You could define a class: .nobr { white-space:nowrap; }
Which may not work since browsers may (should?) treat unicode line
breaking rules as being more important. Opera is one example, not
sure about others.

Anyway, Opera 7.54 seems to obey white-space: nowrap so that normal
Ascii hyphens are not treated as breaking. Which behavior on which
version of Opera are you referring to?


My memory failed me, I had a protracted discussion on Opera's text
wrapping behaviour on one of the opera groups a couple of years ago. But
this related to Opera's normal wrapping behaviour, not to using CSS to
try and stop the wrapping. Opera does indeed not break on hyphens and
forward slashes when white-space:nowrap is specified.

--
Spartanicus
Jul 21 '05 #10
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Alan J. Flavell wrote:
The Unicode line breaking rules are a real mess, and browsers mostly
implement them cluelessly and inconsistently.


If you think that's bad, you should see what happens when mixed
rtl and ltr content gets line-broken ;-}


And put some non-spacing marks in. ;-)

--
Mars, unlike Earth, has no atmosphere.
The Chicago manual of style, 15th ed., p. 362

Jul 21 '05 #11
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004, Alan J. Flavell wrote:
The Unicode line breaking rules are a real mess, and browsers mostly
implement them cluelessly and inconsistently.


If you think that's bad, you should see what happens when mixed
rtl and ltr content gets line-broken ;-}


Test case:
http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nht...temp/wrap.html
with Mozilla 1.7.
When I make the window narrow enough, the second paragraph wraps,
but the first doesn't. I'd expect both paragraphs not to wrap
since I've &nbsp; after and before the parentheses.
And why do the two paragraphs behave differently as the only
difference is <span></span> in the second?

--
Mars, unlike Earth, has no atmosphere.
The Chicago manual of style, 15th ed., p. 362

Jul 21 '05 #12

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