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Grammer teachers - a html page or an html page

Hi:

I am bored and was wondering:

Is it

a html page?

or

an html page?

A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.
Jul 23 '05 #1
25 3268
On 27 Sep 2004 21:53:55 -0700, Peter <de*********@yahoo.ca> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
Hi:
G'day.
Is it

a html page?
No.
an html page?
Yes.
A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
You don't need one. In this case, it is not a real word but an acronym,
which is pronounced letter by letter. Effectively, the first "word" in
HTML" is "aich", which does begin with a vowel.

Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.
I think I need a beer.


Have one for me.

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
Jul 23 '05 #2
Peter wrote:
I am bored and was wondering:

Is it

a html page?

or

an html page?

A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.


The vowel is in "aitch", the letter sound. Hence "an HTML page" but "a
U-boat", as "yoo" starts with a consonant.

Oh, and it's "grammar", not "grammer".

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/
Jul 23 '05 #3
Mark Parnell wrote:
Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.


Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
to drop initial "h" sounds. "An hypertext markup language document"
sounds ridiculous.

Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
est, that is).

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/
Jul 23 '05 #4
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:15:43 +0100, Mark Tranchant
<ma**@tranchant.plus.com> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule?
It's what I was always taught growing up. :-) What would you consider
authoritative?
I don't believe
it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
to drop initial "h" sounds. "An hypertext markup language document"
sounds ridiculous.
I think these days either is generally accepted.
Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
est, that is).


Good point.

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
Jul 23 '05 #5
Mark Tranchant <ma**@tranchant.plus.com> wrote:
Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to
be preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.


Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that
tend to drop initial "h" sounds.


The situation is fairly complex:
"In speech and writing a is used before a consonant sound <a door> <a
human>. Before a vowel sound an is usual <an icicle> <an honor> but
especially in speech a is used occasionally, more often in some dialects
than in others <a apple> <a hour> <a obligation>. Before a consonant
sound represented by a vowel letter a is usual <a one> <a union> but an
also occurs though less frequently now than formerly <an unique> <such an
one>. Before unstressed or weakly stressed syllables with initial h both
a and an are used in writing <a historic> <an historic> but in speech an
is more frequent whether \h\ is pronounced or not."
http://www.m-w.com/ s.v. a[2, indefinite article]

However, the principle in official orthography (to the extent that there
is such a thing for English) is that the _pronunciation_ of the
expression that follows is decisive, specifically its first sound,
not the first letter. So "an HTML page" is more correct.

Please take this to alt.usage.english, a (!) hyperactive but otherwise
very nice group, if doubts remain. Don't forget to check its FAQ list
at http://www.alt-usage-english.org/ first, I'm pretty sure they have a
good entry on this issue (the server is right now out of order/network).

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html

Jul 23 '05 #6
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Mark Tranchant wrote:
A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.


The vowel is in "aitch", the letter sound. Hence "an HTML page" but "a
U-boat", as "yoo" starts with a consonant.


Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

Jul 23 '05 #7
Andreas Prilop wrote:
Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?


:-)

The definitive answer should, of course, be however The Queen chooses to
pronounce it. I doubt she's has reason to consider the pronounciation of
..htaccess before...

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/
Jul 23 '05 #8
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:15:43 +0100, Mark Tranchant
<ma**@tranchant.plus.com> wrote:
Mark Parnell wrote:
Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.


Do you have an authoritative reference for this rule? I don't believe
it's anything more than a convention, probably from dialects that tend
to drop initial "h" sounds.


It's based solely on pronunciation, boys. If you pronounce the word
"is-to'-rik" you use "an" - if, like me, you say the h, "a" is correct.
Jul 23 '05 #9
Andreas Prilop wrote:
Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?


As it is pronounced "dot aitch tea access": "a".

--
David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
Jul 23 '05 #10
David Dorward <do*****@yahoo.com> wrote in news:cjcau0$fbc$1$8300dec7
@news.demon.co.uk:
Andreas Prilop wrote:
Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?


As it is pronounced "dot aitch tea access": "a".


As it is pronounced, "huhtaxis file" with a very soft h: "an". :)
Jul 23 '05 #11
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:33:42 +0200, Andreas Prilop
<nh******@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
an .htaccess file
If you don't pronounce the dot.
a .htaccess file


If you do pronounce the dot. :-D

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
Jul 23 '05 #12
de*********@yahoo.ca (Peter) wrote:
Hi:

I am bored and was wondering:

Is it

a html page?

or

an html page?

A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.


Vowels and consonants are sounds, not letters. When we speak of vowel
letters and consonant letters, it's just a shortcut for referring to
letters that usually represent vowels or consonants, respectively.

The name of the letter H, "aitch", starts with a vowel.

--
Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.
Jul 23 '05 #13
Mark Tranchant wrote:
Oh, and you meant "e.g." (exempli gratia, for example) not "i.e." (id
est, that is).


I copied that to my clipboard, thanks. It's always good to know the
Latin one writes :)

--
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com
Jul 23 '05 #14
Andreas Prilop wrote:

Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?


Often with questions like these I perform a site:cnn.com search for
both alternatives I have in mind -- whatever yields more results I will
take. For German grammar, I use Spiegel.de. Of course in your case the
topic at hand might be too technical for CNN.com to cover. Maybe
whatis.com ...

PS: "An SQL database" or "a SQL database"? I suppose it matters if you
pronounce it "As-Cue-Ell" or "Sequel".

--
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com
Jul 23 '05 #15
Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Andreas Prilop wrote:

Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?

Often with questions like these I perform a site:cnn.com search for
both alternatives I have in mind -- whatever yields more results I will
take.


How about from the horse's mouth:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/howto/htaccess.html

They use "a .htaccess file".

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/
Jul 23 '05 #16

"Toby Inkster" <us**********@tobyinkster.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pa****************************@tobyinkster.co .uk...
Mark Tranchant wrote:
How about from the horse's mouth:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/howto/htaccess.html

They use "a .htaccess file".


Though they use "an" on these pages:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_expires.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_mime.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/howto/auth.html
http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.1/mod/core.html


I expect it depends on whether one says "aitch-tee-access" or
"dot-aitch-tee-access".

Jul 23 '05 #18
"Peter" <de*********@yahoo.ca> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.


English speakers choose between "a" and "an" based on the _sound_ of
the following word. "html" is not pronounced "hit-m'l" but "H-T-M-
L". The letter "H" begins with a vowel sound: "eitch" or "aytch",
roughly.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Jul 23 '05 #19
"Mark Parnell" <we*******@clarkecomputers.com.au> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
Even if it was a real word, words beginning with 'h' are supposed to be
preceded by 'an', not 'a'. I.e. an historic occasion.


"An historic" is a special case. Hardly anyone on this side of the
pond says "an hotel", or ever did. And correct me if I'm wrong, but
isn't "a hospital" usual in English English as well as American
English?

Somehow I can't imagine any English girl sighing "He is an hunk"
about some teen idol. :-)

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Jul 23 '05 #20
"Andreas Prilop" <nh******@rrzn-user.uni-hannover.de> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
Next question:
an .htaccess file
or
a .htaccess file
?


Is the period/dot/full stop silent?

:-)

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Jul 23 '05 #21
"Philipp Lenssen" <in**@outer-court.com> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:

PS: "An SQL database" or "a SQL database"? I suppose it matters if you
pronounce it "As-Cue-Ell" or "Sequel".


I always go with "Squeal". People do look at me funny, I admit.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
Jul 23 '05 #22
Harlan Messinger <hm*******************@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<fg********************************@4ax.com>. ..
de*********@yahoo.ca (Peter) wrote:
Hi:

I am bored and was wondering:

Is it

a html page?

or

an html page?

A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an html page.
I think I need a beer.

WOW ... 18 messages in the same day. Yes, it is grammar, but I also
lied and had a few beers before I started. \_/ cheers everyone.
Vowels and consonants are sounds, not letters. When we speak of vowel
letters and consonant letters, it's just a shortcut for referring to
letters that usually represent vowels or consonants, respectively.

The name of the letter H, "aitch", starts with a vowel.

Jul 23 '05 #23
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 23:03:04 -0400, Stan Brown
<th************@fastmail.fm> declared in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
"An historic" is a special case. Hardly anyone on this side of the
pond says "an hotel", or ever did. And correct me if I'm wrong, but
isn't "a hospital" usual in English English as well as American
English?

Somehow I can't imagine any English girl sighing "He is an hunk"
about some teen idol. :-)


See Mark's reply to my post. I thought of "an historic" first, and must
have got confused, thinking that was the norm, not the exception. :-S

--
Mark Parnell
http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
Jul 23 '05 #24
Stan Brown <th************@fastmail.fm> wrote in
news:MP************************@news.odyssey.net:
"Peter" <de*********@yahoo.ca> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html:
A html page just sounds funny, but where is the vowel to justify an
html page.


English speakers choose between "a" and "an" based on the _sound_ of
the following word. "html" is not pronounced "hit-m'l" but "H-T-M-
L". The letter "H" begins with a vowel sound: "eitch" or "aytch",
roughly.


What? But I've always talked about earls to hittimal documents!
Jul 23 '05 #25
In message <MP************************@news.odyssey.net>, Stan Brown
<th************@fastmail.fm> writes
[snip]
Somehow I can't imagine any English girl sighing "He is an hunk"
about some teen idol. :-)

Eez an 'unk, inee?
--
Jake
Jul 23 '05 #26

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