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Frames for the blind - revisiting

The "frames are evil" mantra is often heard - I've said it myself -,
but can someone tell me how a framed site works in an aural browser or
for that matter, any browser other than the normal GUI type?

Other than that search engines don't index pages within the site, are
there any real problems with frames for folk using browsers like IE6,
Opera 7+, FF/Moz ?

--

te****@ban.arg.nh
Email addy ROT13'd
Jul 21 '05 #1
5 1771
In article <MP************************@news.aardvark.net.au >,
grakat <te****@ban.arg.nh> wrote:
[...] can someone tell me how a framed site works in an aural browser
Just like with GUI browsers: depends on the browser.
or for that matter, any browser other than the normal GUI type?
It's not that hard to give something like for instance lynx a try
yourself. More enlightening than asking others.
Other than that search engines don't index pages within the site, are
there any real problems with frames for folk using browsers like IE6,
Opera 7+, FF/Moz ?


Other than the odd frameset created by the author, no other collections
are at a specific address. Even if you bother with a tool that uses
tricks to bookmark such a collection of documents, you can't get a URL
(which you might want to give to someone) because the collection just
doesn't exist at a specific address.

Clearly makes the site less useable, plus it affects search engine score
negatively as no links will be pointing anything but your frameset.

This has what to do with CSS?

--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>
Jul 21 '05 #2
Sander Tekelenburg <us**@domain.invalid> wrote:
Other than the odd frameset created by the author, no other collections
are at a specific address. Even if you bother with a tool that uses
tricks to bookmark such a collection of documents, you can't get a URL
(which you might want to give to someone) because the collection just
doesn't exist at a specific address.
Use a new frameset for every unique set of panes. This solves a user
problem, and creates an author problem, so frames suck no less.
This has what to do with CSS?


crossposted and f-up set to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html

--
Spartanicus
Jul 21 '05 #3
In message <MP************************@news.aardvark.net.au >, grakat
<te****@ban.arg.nh> writes
The "frames are evil" mantra is often heard - I've said it myself -,
Not 'evil' .... just 'misunderstood'
but can someone tell me how a framed site works in an aural browser or
for that matter, any browser other than the normal GUI type?
Typically:
(a) On entering the site the user is advised that s/he is on 'Page X of
Y pages'.

(b) They can ask for a list of frames (which is why you should always
include a proper name and title e.g. 'Menu Frame' and not 'LH Frame',
'Main content' and not 'Centre'.

(c) The user then toggles between the frames.

Simple as that.

Other than that search engines don't index pages within the site,
Yes they do -- provided you have an appropriate link or links in the
<noframes></frames> section.
are
there any real problems with frames for folk using browsers like IE6,
Opera 7+, FF/Moz ?

Nope, none at all. In fact, no problems going all the way back to
Netscape 2.

regards.

--
Jake
(ja**@gododdin.demon.co.uk .... just a spam trap.)

Jul 21 '05 #4
grakat <te****@ban.arg.nh> wrote:
The "frames are evil" mantra is often heard - I've said it myself -,
but can someone tell me how a framed site works in an aural browser or
for that matter, any browser other than the normal GUI type?
Take Lynx for a spin sometime.

Generally, each framed document is presented independently. The user can
switch between one framed document and another. The details vary from
browser to browser, but many users will be less familiar with the mechanism
for switching between framed documents than they are with normal
navigation.
Other than that search engines don't index pages within the site, are
there any real problems with frames for folk using browsers like IE6,
Opera 7+, FF/Moz ?


Have you read the FAQs? For example,
http://www.htmlhelp.com/faq/html/fra...frame-problems

Frames disrupt bookmarking, linking, indexing, referring to URLs in other
media, printing, navigation, and input focus (and features like scrolling,
searching, and keyboard shortcuts that depend on input focus). They also
create orphaned pages.
--
Darin McGrew, mc****@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da***@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/

"Predictions are difficult, especially about the future." - Casey Stengel
Jul 21 '05 #5
In article <us************************@textnews.euro.net>,
us**@domain.invalid says...
In article <MP************************@news.aardvark.net.au >,
grakat <te****@ban.arg.nh> wrote:
[...] can someone tell me how a framed site works in an aural browser
Just like with GUI browsers: depends on the browser.
or for that matter, any browser other than the normal GUI type?


It's not that hard to give something like for instance lynx a try
yourself. More enlightening than asking others.


I don't have Lynx; Opera's "text browser emulation" seems to handle
framed sites without any problems
... it affects search engine score
negatively as no links will be pointing anything but your frameset.

So it's ALL to do with search engines and bookmarking of internal
pages. Thanks for that. Maybe frames are ok for smallish sites.
This has what to do with CSS?
Nothing. I'm an idiot. Meant to post in alt.html.

Thanks for taking the time to reply anyway.


--
te****@ban.arg.nh
Email addy ROT13'd
Jul 21 '05 #6

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