Who manages your stylesheets?

[harrySara]

We've begun to heavily utilize CSS on our Web sites. In doing this I've
noticed how quickly they tend to get bloated and out of hand.

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it. I
don't care who manages the CSS, but it seems like a situation where too
many cooks can really cause havoc.

Comments?

[Christoph Päper]

harrySara schrieb:

We've begun to heavily utilize CSS on our Web sites.
Good.
In doing this I've noticed how quickly they tend to get
bloated and out of hand.
Clear sign of too many or too incompetent authors.
I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout,
The development or the implementation thereof?
which means I'm supposedly in charge of the CSS,
That depends on your answer to the above question.
but our programmers (including my boss) have no
hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Comments?

Your company is lacking clear structures. That's sometimes fun, but
generally bad, perhaps even existence-endangering.

[Els]

harrySara wrote:

We've begun to heavily utilize CSS on our Web sites. In doing this I've
noticed how quickly they tend to get bloated and out of hand.

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it. I
don't care who manages the CSS, but it seems like a situation where too
many cooks can really cause havoc.

Comments?

"*Nobody* touches my CSS!"

;-)

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: FM - Only The Strong Survive

[Jim Moe]

harrySara wrote:

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Then you are not in charge. To be in charge you must have control which
clearly you do not. Hopefully you are not the one blamed when the code is
messed up by others.

--
jmm dash list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com
(Remove .AXSPAMGN for email)

[harrySara]

Jim Moe wrote:

harrySara wrote:

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Then you are not in charge. To be in charge you must have control which
clearly you do not. Hopefully you are not the one blamed when the code is
messed up by others.

Actually, I am the one who gets slammed if the code is inconsistent or
conflicting with other styles...

[harrySara]

Jim Moe wrote:

harrySara wrote:

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Then you are not in charge. To be in charge you must have control which
clearly you do not. Hopefully you are not the one blamed when the code is
messed up by others.

Actually, I am the one who gets slammed if the code is inconsistent or
conflicting with other styles...

[Els]

harrySara wrote:

Jim Moe wrote:

harrySara wrote:

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout, which means I'm
supposedly in charge of the CSS, but our programmers (including my
boss) have no hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Then you are not in charge. To be in charge you must have control which
clearly you do not. Hopefully you are not the one blamed when the code is
messed up by others.

Actually, I am the one who gets slammed if the code is inconsistent or
conflicting with other styles...

Then I'd insist nobody else touches your files.
Explain to your boss that you can't create a solid construction if
others are allowed to mess with the fundations.
Maybe you can make a separate file for the colours, so that others can
have some amount of influence, without being able to do something
harmful?

--
Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -
Now playing: Love/Hate - Black Out in The Red Room

[glakk]

Christoph Päper wrote:

harrySara schrieb:

We've begun to heavily utilize CSS on our Web sites.

Good.

In doing this I've noticed how quickly they tend to get
bloated and out of hand.

Clear sign of too many or too incompetent authors.

Heck, all it takes is one person to bloat'n'tangle a stylesheet

I'm primarily responsible for graphics and page layout,

The development or the implementation thereof?

Which means?

which means I'm supposedly in charge of the CSS,

That depends on your answer to the above question.

That does answer the above question.

but our programmers (including my boss) have no
hesitation making additions and subtractions to it.

Comments?

Your company is lacking clear structures. That's sometimes fun, but
generally bad, perhaps even existence-endangering.

Sounds like the "programmers" are playing on the job. I'd love to be
able to hand the styling and layout off to someone else and concentrate
on algorithms. Not that I don't enjoy styling, it's just that if I let
myself start, I wind up wasting a lot of time.

Programmers should work with an unstyled but structured document. You
and the programmer should get together and agree on some id's for input
and output containers, and perhaps a very basic page layout, and then
each of you should go off and do your own thing with no contact unless
the unexpected (which is to be expected) comes up. Programmers should
discipline themselves always to concentrate on logic, logic, logic.
It's too easy to waste time diddling around with how it looks. It's
only natural for them to take pride in a program that not only runs
good but looks good as well, but getting it to look good is your job,
and the two tasks are quite distinct.

This problem is as old as the hills, and the solution is a set of clear
boundaries and discipline. Good fences make good neighbors.

[glakk]

harrySara wrote:

Actually, I am the one who gets slammed if the code is inconsistent or
conflicting with other styles...

Which code? You should have control over the css and html, but if the
fault is in javascript or server side, that ain't your job.

Give the programmers a -simple- html page layout (for sake of
readability) and don't let them mess with the css classes! It's usual
for javascript to reassign classes to elements, but the names and
meanings of the classes, and the ids of the elements are all they
should be concerned with.

You have to get these things done early on in the development process,
and then stick to them unless there's a real need to change things. The
programmer can work with 'dummy' classes which don't have any style
definitions, just so long as they know the -meaning- of the class.

Say for instance, they have to tell the user that their login was
incorrect, they might change the class of a container to alert the
user, but they should not even -want- to decide how that other
className should look.

I've oversimplified, but that's the basic idea.

[glakk]

Els wrote:

Then I'd insist nobody else touches your files.
Explain to your boss that you can't create a solid construction if
others are allowed to mess with the fundations.
Maybe you can make a separate file for the colours, so that others can
have some amount of influence, without being able to do something
harmful?

Yup, and consider that all it takes is one line in a page to change the
tylesheet from this one to that one. If they want to diddle a
stylesheet, let them write their own, then change to the real one
(yours) when the time comes.

I think the hard part comes in when inline styles are used, i.e. a
javascript function that changes some text from one color to the other.
To avoid that, you can have a policy of allowing changes in className,
but not inline. This can make for larger stylesheets, and larger code,
but it's more workable.