Multiple Classes in "class" ok?

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:

Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

They are 'legal', yes, as gets explained in this group about fifty times a year
:-(
So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

No, you can't. Again, as gets explained in this group about fifty times a year,
using pt as unit for font-size is a bad idea. Google for the reason.
bold pink medium sized text

Well, this could be okay. I do not like your choice of selectors, class names
though. Use something semantic so you remember why you put a class with an
element. And be very careful with names that are attributes, properties, values,
what ever. Confusion is close by if you do that.
You can use multiple classes, but not multiple id's, so id="this that other"
is wrong.

What would be the use? How would you refer to the element with a multiple id?
You could however write id="this" class="that other".

I'm actually not really sure if one can use multiple values for one id
attribute. Maybe someone else. I don't want to go Google for it or dig down
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#adef-id>. Maybe you can look
there yourself.

--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
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| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
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`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

Jul 21 '05 #2

/Barbara de Zoete/:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

They are 'legal', yes, as gets explained in this group about fifty times
a year :-(

It's a damn good number ("fifty per year"), I think. :-)

--
Stanimir

Jul 21 '05 #3

Michael Winter

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com>
wrote:
[snip]

So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

No, you can't.

That's rather misleading on two levels. First, I initially assumed you
were objecting to syntax, however there's nothing wrong in that
respect. I think you could have phrased your objection better. Second,
the OP *can* use pt units, but what one can do and what one *should*
do can be very different things.
I'm actually not really sure if one can use multiple values for one
id attribute.

It doesn't make any sense to do so. An id is a unique value so what
could be gained by having more than one of them? Moreover, the ID data
type doesn't permit spaces so a space-separated list wouldn't be possible.

Mike

--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.

Jul 21 '05 #4

Spartanicus

"Barbara de Zoete" <b_********@hotmail.com> wrote:

I'm actually not really sure if one can use multiple values for one id
attribute.

Nope (and multiple id attributes is also not valid :)

--
Spartanicus

Jul 21 '05 #5

Will Hartung

"Michael Winter" <m.******@blueyonder.co.invalid> wrote in message
news:b3****************@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk ...

Barbara de Zoete wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com>
wrote:

[snip]
So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
>> .bold {font-weight: bold}
>> .medium {font-size: 12pt}

No, you can't.

That's rather misleading on two levels. First, I initially assumed you
were objecting to syntax, however there's nothing wrong in that
respect. I think you could have phrased your objection better. Second,
the OP *can* use pt units, but what one can do and what one *should*
do can be very different things.

Funny, I WAS going to put:

..medium {font-size: 12px}

But I figured I would get screamed at, even though I was just curious about
the syntax and contrived an example.

Regards,

Will Hartung
(wi***@msoft.com)

Jul 21 '05 #6

Mark Carroll

In article <36*************@individual.net>,
Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:

Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

bold pink medium sized text

(snip)

Yes, that's fine - certainly it's in the CSS2.1 specification.
Browser support may be another matter: ISTR there's at least one
common browser that has problems with it, but I forget which.

-- Mark

Jul 21 '05 #7

Michael Winter

Mark Carroll wrote:

[snip]

ISTR there's at least one common browser that has problems with it,
but I forget which.

Both NN4 and IE4 fail to respect multiple class names. No style is
applied in that case. However, I wouldn't call either "common". I'm
not sure if other user agents act similarly.

Mike

--
Michael Winter
Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.

Jul 21 '05 #8

Lauri Raittila

in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, Mark Carroll wrote:

In article <36*************@individual.net>,
Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

bold pink medium sized text

(snip)

Yes, that's fine - certainly it's in the CSS2.1 specification.
Browser support may be another matter: ISTR there's at least one
common browser that has problems with it, but I forget which.

Not with that syntax, I believe, but things like .pink.bold {
color:yellow;font-weigh:normal;} don't work as well.

--
Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
Utrecht, NL.

Jul 21 '05 #9

Del Ferguson

"Mark Carroll" <ma***@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:Sc*******@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...

In article <36*************@individual.net>,
Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are
ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

bold pink medium sized text

(snip)

Yes, that's fine - certainly it's in the CSS2.1 specification.
Browser support may be another matter: ISTR there's at least one
common browser that has problems with it, but I forget which.

-- Mark

Mark,

My "not-so-original" multiple classes ( class="navy small justify" )
seem to work fine with IE6 and Firefox. Doesn't that cover about 75% of
the World? Pages and CSS validate at W3C.

Del Ferguson

Jul 21 '05 #10

saz

In article <opslmyffa1x5vgts@zoete_b>, b_********@hotmail.com says...

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?

They are 'legal', yes, as gets explained in this group about fifty times a year
:-(
So, I can do:

.pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

No, you can't. Again, as gets explained in this group about fifty times a year,
using pt as unit for font-size is a bad idea. Google for the reason.

What are you talking about? Of course he can use pt as a unit if he
wants. It is "legal".

bold pink medium sized text

Well, this could be okay.

Again, what are you talking about? Of course it is okay, he can name it
whatever he wants.

Jul 21 '05 #11

*Spartanicus* <me@privacy.net>:

Nope (and multiple id attributes is also not valid :)

Not even multiple attributes of type ID.

--
Useless Facts #14:
There are 102,981,500 ways to combine six of the 8-studed LEGO bricks of one
color.
Since 1949, the LEGO company, based in Denmark, has produced more than
200,000,000,000 of the plastic elements that make up the Lego System.

Jul 21 '05 #12

*Del Ferguson* <ra********@charter.net>:

My "not-so-original" multiple classes ( class="navy small justify" )
seem to work fine with IE6 and Firefox.

The former doesn't have a problem with the HTML, but with CSS selectors
like ".navy.small".

--
No sig today, my .sig has gone away
The divider stands forlorn, a symbol of the dawn
No sig today, it seems a common sight
But people reading by don't know the reason why

Jul 21 '05 #13

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:11:44 -0600, saz <sa*****@nospammersexcite.com> wrote:

In article <opslmyffa1x5vgts@zoete_b>, b_********@hotmail.com says...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
> bold pink medium sized text
>

Well, this could be okay.

Again, what are you talking about? Of course it is okay, he can name it
whatever he wants.

As you so conveniently snipped away, what followed was:

I do not like your choice of selectors,
class names though.
And then I explained why as well:
Use something semantic so you remember why you put a class with
an element. And be very careful with names that are
attributes, properties, values, what ever. Confusion is close by
if you do that.

Had nothing to do with 'legal' in this context, just with what would be the
wiser thing to do. Try maintaining a site that uses .green and .big as classes,
instead of meaningful class names. Try do a complete make over of the styles
with classes like .pink and .medium. Good luck with it.

--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

Jul 21 '05 #14

Ali Babba

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:11:44 -0600, saz <sa*****@nospammersexcite.com>
wrote:
In article <opslmyffa1x5vgts@zoete_b>, b_********@hotmail.com says...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:

> bold pink medium sized text
>

Well, this could be okay.

Again, what are you talking about? Of course it is okay, he can name it
whatever he wants.

As you so conveniently snipped away, what followed was:
>> I do not like your choice of selectors,
>> class names though.
And then I explained why as well:
>> Use something semantic so you remember why you put a class with
>> an element. And be very careful with names that are
>> attributes, properties, values, what ever. Confusion is close by
>> if you do that.

Had nothing to do with 'legal' in this context, just with what would be
the wiser thing to do. Try maintaining a site that uses .green and .big
as classes, instead of meaningful class names. Try do a complete make
over of the styles with classes like .pink and .medium. Good luck with it.

..green, .big, .pink, .medium are not meaningful ?
the meaning of such classes appear pretty clear to me.

or should we instead use classnames like:
..sinterklaas, .kerst, .oud-en-nieuw ???
does that automatically tell what the class is about ???

your point is very right, but your example is anything but justified.

Jul 21 '05 #15

saz

In article <opslm4ykhqx5vgts@zoete_b>, b_********@hotmail.com says...

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:11:44 -0600, saz <sa*****@nospammersexcite.com> wrote:
In article <opslmyffa1x5vgts@zoete_b>, b_********@hotmail.com says...
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:

> bold pink medium sized text
>

Well, this could be okay.

Again, what are you talking about? Of course it is okay, he can name it
whatever he wants.

As you so conveniently snipped away, what followed was:
>> I do not like your choice of selectors,
>> class names though.
And then I explained why as well:
>> Use something semantic so you remember why you put a class with
>> an element. And be very careful with names that are
>> attributes, properties, values, what ever. Confusion is close by
>> if you do that.

Had nothing to do with 'legal' in this context, just with what would be the
wiser thing to do. Try maintaining a site that uses .green and .big as classes,
instead of meaningful class names. Try do a complete make over of the styles
with classes like .pink and .medium. Good luck with it.

I "conveniently snipped away" because it was a stupid response, and did
not address his question - is it legal? But then again, 90% of your
responses are ill-informed, stupid or degrading - take your pick.

And what's wrong with naming at a color? Seems VERY straight-forward to
me.

Jul 21 '05 #16

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:08:04 -0600, saz <sa*****@nospammersexcite.com> wrote:

I "conveniently snipped away" because it was a stupid response, and did
not address his question - is it legal?
Well, again, this is not a help desk. Questions, topics of the questions get
discussed. The repsons, you think stupid, was just that. Discussion.
But then again, 90% of your
responses are ill-informed, stupid or degrading - take your pick.

No, thank you. If I irritate you, just killfile me. You just did get killfiled.
And what's wrong with naming at a color? Seems VERY straight-forward to
me.

I allready explained, twice, and, I'm not a jukebox[1].

[1]curtecy spartanicus

--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

Jul 21 '05 #17

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Ali Babba wrote:

.green, .big, .pink, .medium are not meaningful ?
the meaning of such classes appear pretty clear to me.
...until next week when you (or your client) decides s/he wants to
change all the pink stuff to .. orange.

So now you would have a "pink" class with an orange color code. No,
that is not meaningful.

Since I don't know just what the "pink" is supposed to apply to, I
cannot speculate on what is a good word. I can state though, that for
color classes, I use words like "colorhot" and "colorveryhot" or
"colorcool" and "colorverycool". Codes associated are dark red, bright
red, dark blue and bright blue.

If, next week, the client wants "colorveryhot" to be .. bright green?
... I change the style sheet's color code, and well, colorveryhot is
green. But my HTML does not say "pink!" <g>
or should we instead use classnames like:
.sinterklaas, .kerst, .oud-en-nieuw ???
does that automatically tell what the class is about ???

You are mixing languages, which is not helpful.

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Jul 21 '05 #18

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:13:54 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty
<a.*********@example.invalid> wrote:

Ali Babba wrote:
or should we instead use classnames like:
.sinterklaas, .kerst, .oud-en-nieuw ???
does that automatically tell what the class is about ???

You are mixing languages, which is not helpful.

I killfiled that babba dude, so missed this one. I'll help you out. He took
those class names from my stylesheet.
I 'activate' them at certain holidays, such as Sinterklaas (5th december), Kerst
(Christmas) and Oud en Nieuw (New Year). So to someone who doesn't speek Dutch
they don't mean much, but to the Dutch, including me, the one maintaining this
site, they are very meaningful. What happens if I 'activate' them is that a
holiday related style (you can just see the christmas lights or fireworks, can't
you ;-) ) gets applied to my entire site.
Or maybe you guessed this already.
--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'

Jul 21 '05 #19

Ali Babba

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

Ali Babba wrote:
.green, .big, .pink, .medium are not meaningful ?
the meaning of such classes appear pretty clear to me.

..until next week when you (or your client) decides s/he wants to change
all the pink stuff to .. orange.

So now you would have a "pink" class with an orange color code. No, that
is not meaningful.

Since I don't know just what the "pink" is supposed to apply to, I
cannot speculate on what is a good word. I can state though, that for
color classes, I use words like "colorhot" and "colorveryhot" or
"colorcool" and "colorverycool". Codes associated are dark red, bright
red, dark blue and bright blue.

If, next week, the client wants "colorveryhot" to be .. bright green? ..
I change the style sheet's color code, and well, colorveryhot is green.
But my HTML does not say "pink!" <g>
or should we instead use classnames like:
.sinterklaas, .kerst, .oud-en-nieuw ???
does that automatically tell what the class is about ???

You are mixing languages, which is not helpful.

we should not have this discussion anyway as it will not lead to
anything. i agree with what you said.

the classnames i irionically proposed came from a css file from mss jukebox.

Jul 21 '05 #20

Ali Babba

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

I killfiled that babba dude, ...

heheh LOL
i wonder how many people she has in her kill file
must be lots of fun people, that all share a common dislike for the
never ending flow of pain_in_the_butt_patronizing_posts from mss jukebox.

maybe she can do us a favor and post the list of names in her killfile
?! :) :)

Jul 21 '05 #21

saz

In article <ct**********@news.hispeed.ch>, Al******@40Bandits.com
says...

Barbara de Zoete wrote:
I killfiled that babba dude, ...

heheh LOL
i wonder how many people she has in her kill file
must be lots of fun people, that all share a common dislike for the
never ending flow of pain_in_the_butt_patronizing_posts from mss jukebox.

maybe she can do us a favor and post the list of names in her killfile
?! :) :)

I have yet to see her contribute anything useful to this group. She
amuses me - I think it's because she's nowhere near as smart as she
thinks she is.

And her website - it hurts my eyes! This is one designer that should
*not* be giving advice to anyone.

Jul 21 '05 #22

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Barbara de Zoete wrote:

I killfiled that babba dude, so missed this one. I'll help you out.
He took those class names from my stylesheet. I 'activate' them
at certain holidays, such as Sinterklaas (5th december), Kerst
(Christmas) and Oud en Nieuw (New Year).
That makes sense. 5th December can only ever be .. 5th December. The
styles associated with it may change, though.

5th December may be [example] blue and white this year, and red and
green next year. However, the class code for 5th December is still
meaningful. Unlike "pink".
So to someone who doesn't speek Dutch they don't mean much, but to
the Dutch, including me, the one maintaining this site, they are
very meaningful. What happens if I 'activate' them is that a
holiday related style (you can just see the christmas lights or
fireworks, can't you ;-) ) gets applied to my entire site. Or
maybe you guessed this already.

Yes, I guessed that. <g>

(I think I will rename my menu class to ... "mystery". Or, "pinkmystery".)

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Jul 21 '05 #23

Richard

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:15:05 +0100 Barbara de Zoete wrote:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:47:18 -0800, Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com>
wrote:
Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are
ok
and "legal" and not some fluke?
They are 'legal', yes, as gets explained in this group about fifty
times a year ::-(
So, I can do: .pink {color: pink}
.bold {font-weight: bold}
.medium {font-size: 12pt}

No, you can't. Again, as gets explained in this group about fifty times
a year,
using pt as unit for font-size is a bad idea. Google for the reason.

Bullshit.
As "point" is the natural terminology of defining font size, why would it
not be "legal"?
I've used it and it validates.
I just worked on the example and it works just fine.

Using pixel instead of point, a translation must take place.
So why translate?

Jul 21 '05 #24

Richard

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:32:58 +0100 Lauri Raittila wrote:

in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, Mark Carroll wrote:
In article <36*************@individual.net>,
Will Hartung <wi***@msoft.com> wrote:
>Can someone clarify that multiple classes in the "class" attribute are ok
>and "legal" and not some fluke?
>
>So, I can do:
>
>.pink {color: pink}
>.bold {font-weight: bold}
>.medium {font-size: 12pt}
>
>bold pink medium sized text

(snip) Yes, that's fine - certainly it's in the CSS2.1 specification.
Browser support may be another matter: ISTR there's at least one
common browser that has problems with it, but I forget which.

Not with that syntax, I believe, but things like .pink.bold {
color:yellow;font-weigh:normal;} don't work as well.

because the syntax is wrong.
it should be .pink, .bold {....}

Jul 21 '05 #25

*Richard* <An*******@127.001>:

As "point" is the natural terminology of defining font size,
Strange view. "1pt" is just an alias of 1/72 'in'; "1in" is just an alias
of "25.4mm". There's no "natural terminology of defining font size" in
there. Font size is best set in an angular unit, taking the distance
text--eye into account---in theory, CSS pixels are such a unit.
I've used it and it validates.
That doesn't mean it's advisable. It's been discussed here and elsewhere
ad nauseam, please read up yourself and learn. 'em' and '%' are the only
advisable CSS units for 'font-size'; keywords may be a possibility, too.
I just worked on the example and it works just fine.
Try different browsers, operating systems, screens and (correct) screen
settings.
Using pixel instead of point,
You shouldn't use 'px' for 'font-size' either.
a translation must take place.

Huh? Current browsers map CSS pixels 1:1 onto screen pixels.

--
"Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time."
Terry Pratchett

Jul 21 '05 #26

*Richard* <An*******@127.001>:

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:32:58 +0100 Lauri Raittila wrote:
things like .pink.bold {color:yellow;font-weigh:normal;}
don't work as well.

because the syntax is wrong.
it should be .pink, .bold {....}

That's a different thing, obviously. Both are syntactically and
grammatically valid.
".pink.bold" matches any element instance with a 'class' attribute that
includes "pink" _and_ "bold", whereas ".pink, .bold" matches any element
instance with a 'class' attribute that includes "pink" _or_ "bold" (or
both). The class names in both selectors are commutative.

Now you can do a little exercise at home by finding out what ".pink
..bold", ".pink>.bold" and ".pink+.bold" mean and whether they are
commutative, too. Get a bonus point for ".pink~.bold"! Finally point out
the selector that has a lower specifity than the other five.

Next time we learn to write a selector that matches any element instance
with a 'class' attribute set to "pink", but doesn't match one with "pink
bold". And many more!

--
"You're basically killing each other to see
who's got the better imaginary friend."
Rich Jeni on war vs. religion

Jul 21 '05 #27

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Richard wrote:

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 20:15:05 +0100 Barbara de Zoete wrote:
No, you can't. Again, as gets explained in this group about fifty
times a year, using pt as unit for font-size is a bad idea.
Google for the reason.
Bullshit. As "point" is the natural terminology of defining font
size, why would it not be "legal"?

Wake up your brain. She said it is a Bad Idea. She did not say is was
not Legal. Yes, it is a Bad Idea.

Point is a natural terminology for print media.
I've used it and it validates. I just worked on the example and it
works just fine.
Set all your fonts to pt, then open the page in IE and try to resize
them. It frigging doesn't work. Bad Idea.
Using pixel instead of point, a translation must take place. So why
translate?

Huh?

--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.

Jul 21 '05 #28

/saz/ about Barbara de Zoete:

And her website - it hurts my eyes! This is one designer that should
*not* be giving advice to anyone.

You're hilarious. Just switch the style off while viewing her site.

--
Stanimir

Jul 21 '05 #29

Del Ferguson

"Stanimir Stamenkov" <s7****@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:36*************@individual.net...

/saz/ about Barbara de Zoete:
And her website - it hurts my eyes! This is one designer that should
*not* be giving advice to anyone.

You're hilarious. Just switch the style off while viewing her site.

--
Stanimir

Stanimir,

How do you turn off style, easily, in IE6? Just curious.

Del Ferguson

Jul 21 '05 #30

/Del Ferguson/:

"Stanimir Stamenkov" <s7****@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:36*************@individual.net...
/saz/ about Barbara de Zoete:
And her website - it hurts my eyes! This is one designer that should
*not* be giving advice to anyone.

You're hilarious. Just switch the style off while viewing her site.

How do you turn off style, easily, in IE6? Just curious.

Del, you get couple of choices - do not use IE and use UA which can
do it (as I do), or search the web to download and install extension
for IE which would enable you to do it. I'm sure there are such
extensions because I've once installed for the exact same reason.
Searching now I've found:

http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/toolbar/

You might take a look at it or just search yourself.

--
Stanimir

Jul 21 '05 #31