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Cyrillic

Does anybody have experience displaying Cyrillic in common browsers
with common settings?

I found the following page researching the topic, however I cannot
display all characters in the table (IE6, either automatic encoding
detection, or forced Cyrillic encoding):

<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>

For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital Letter
Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer does when
it can't display the character).

Thanks for pointers!
Jul 20 '05 #1
35 6300
/Philipp Lenssen/:
Does anybody have experience displaying Cyrillic in common browsers
with common settings?

I found the following page researching the topic, however I cannot
display all characters in the table (IE6, either automatic encoding
detection, or forced Cyrillic encoding):

<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>

For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital Letter
Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer does when
it can't display the character).


Seems like the characters you point are not present in the fonts I
have installed on my system. Strangely enough Mozilla finds
substitutes for most of them and I see them just fine with Mozilla.

For IE6 to display a character it should be present in the font
which font face is currently selected. There are some exclusions
like the Greek letters and couple of symbol characters which are
displayed with a fixed font face no matter what is currently
selected ("Symbol" is used for the Greek letters).

--
Stanimir
Jul 20 '05 #2
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Does anybody have experience displaying Cyrillic in common browsers
with common settings?
Cue A.Prilop?

Meantime I'll ask a question. Which font do you have configured for
*Latin* in tools -> internet options -> fonts ?
<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>

For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital Letter
Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer does when
it can't display the character).


Same here. Clue: WGL4. But try changing your Latin font selection
experimentally to Tahoma and see what happens. It works for me.

Mozilla is a lot better in this regard

http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/...ers-fonts.html

cheers
Jul 20 '05 #3
On 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
I found the following page researching the topic, however I cannot
display all characters in the table (IE6, either automatic encoding
detection, or forced Cyrillic encoding):
<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>
I suggest "the other Alan". ;-)
<http://ppewww.ph.gla.a c.uk/~flavell/unicode/unidata04.html>
You see, <http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/arabic.html> doesn't
prove anything at all. Arabic requires the use of different glyphs
and a writing direction from right to left. Alan Wood's page
doesn't deal with this features at all. So he is mislead to
conclude that, for example, Macintosh iCab can display both
Arabic and Hebrew. In fact, iCab is completely unfit for Arabic
or Hebrew.
<http://www.google.com/groups?q=iCab+A rabic+author:Pr ilop>
For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital Letter
Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer does when
it can't display the character).


The MacEdonian letters with grave accent are recent additions to
Unicode and are missing from most fonts. My understanding is that
they are not required for normal writing (and hence missing in
ISO-8859-5) but are used only in dictionaries and the like.

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

Jul 20 '05 #4
Alan J. Flavell wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Does anybody have experience displaying Cyrillic in common browsers
with common settings?


Meantime I'll ask a question. Which font do you have configured for
*Latin* in tools -> internet options -> fonts ?
Arial...
I always switch to Arial from the default Times New Roman.
<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>

For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital
Letter Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer
does when it can't display the character).
Same here. Clue: WGL4. But try changing your Latin font selection
experimentally to Tahoma and see what happens. It works for me.


Hmm, then I can indeed display the first character, and many others.
But there are still some missing.
Mozilla is a lot better in this regard


Thanks, however we would need to support both IExplorer and Mozilla
(Netscape 7 et al).

Of course, I'm not really looking for a solution on my system/ browser,
rather a way to provide the best possible solution for a typical user
reading Cyrillic. I did ask for someone reading Cyrillic to test it,
but that still leaves me with trying to provide the best possible page
for the test.

Which character encoding would I serve? UTF-8?

--
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com
Jul 20 '05 #5
Andreas Prilop wrote:
On 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
I found the following page researching the topic, however I cannot
display all characters in the table (IE6, either automatic encoding
detection, or forced Cyrillic encoding):
<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>


I suggest "the other Alan". ;-)
<http://ppewww.ph.gla.a c.uk/~flavell/unicode/unidata04.html>


Thanks, nice table. I can see about 60% of the characers. I suppose
someone with a typical browser set up to browse Cyrillic pages would
see more or even all of them... that would be interesting to know for
me.

--
Google Blogoscoped
http://blog.outer-court.com
Jul 20 '05 #6
On 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Of course, I'm not really looking for a solution on my system/ browser,
rather a way to provide the best possible solution for a typical user
reading Cyrillic.
"User reading Cyrillic"? What's that? Do you mean Russian text?
Or Bulgarian text? Or Ukrainian text?
I did ask for someone reading Cyrillic to test it,
but that still leaves me with trying to provide the best possible page
for the test.
Take these pages for testing:
<http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/cyrillic.html5>
<http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/cyrillic.win>
<http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/multilingual1.h tml#cyrillic>
Which character encoding would I serve? UTF-8?


What do you actually want to achieve?

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

Jul 20 '05 #7
On 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Thanks, nice table. I can see about 60% of the characers. I suppose
someone with a typical browser set up to browse Cyrillic pages would
see more or even all of them... that would be interesting to know for
me.


I doubt anyone is up "browsing Cyrillic pages". There are people
reading Russian, people reading Bulgarian, etc. Specify your
language(s)!

--
Top-posting.
What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?

Jul 20 '05 #8
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Arial...
I always switch to Arial from the default Times New Roman.
Have you understood the part which relates to IE in
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/...ers-fonts.html ?

(if you /have/ understood it, then you're doing better than me -
I'm only doing my best to report my practical observations, with some
guesses about the underlying machinery.)

Point 1: naming your font as "Arial" does not fix the repertoire.
There are several different versions of the "Arial" font, covering
very different repertoires.

Point 2: *if* you know that the user has a particularly good (and
properly made) Cyrillic, font then you could select it, e.g via
stylesheet - **BUT** in a WWW context you have no idea whether users
have this font, and most attempts to force the issue can result in a
-worse- rendering for some proportion of readers. I *don't* recommend
trying to set a named font, nor even a list of named fonts, in this
situation, as I say:
http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/...onts.html#dont
Same here. Clue: WGL4. But try changing your Latin font selection
experimentally to Tahoma and see what happens. It works for me.


Hmm, then I can indeed display the first character, and many others.
But there are still some missing.


For me also, with any of the usual fonts. I do have some fonts where
all of the proportional samples (Code2000) and almost all of the
monospace samples ("Monospace" ) are rendered, but they aren't the
world's most aesthetic fonts!!
Of course, I'm not really looking for a solution on my system/ browser,
That's understood, of course. Your browser is only being used as a
test case in this exercise ;-)
rather a way to provide the best possible solution for a typical user
reading Cyrillic.
It might be hoped that if they were "typical" users reading Cyrillic
then they would have taken whatever action was appropriate to improve
the character coverage of their browser. Maybe install any specific
language support for IE/Windows (did you try that yourself?) or look
for appropriate fonts (let's hope they don't stumble on those old
8-bit fake fonts...).
Which character encoding would I serve?


The locals seem collectively to have decided to use Windows-125x for
whichever value of x is appropriate to their language. There's a
certain irony in that, but I won't dwell on it (I'm sure Andreas will
want to comment, though ;-)

But I'd recommend utf-8 for serving to any halfways-modern browser
now. Even Netscape 4 - as long as they don't need to submit any
forms :-{

Jul 20 '05 #9
DU
Philipp Lenssen wrote:
Does anybody have experience displaying Cyrillic in common browsers
with common settings?

I found the following page researching the topic, however I cannot
display all characters in the table (IE6, either automatic encoding
detection, or forced Cyrillic encoding):

<http://www.alanwood.ne t/unicode/cyrillic.html>

For example, the first character in the table ("Cyrillic Capital Letter
Ie With Grave") will display as default-box (what IExplorer does when
it can't display the character).

Thanks for pointers!

1- I strongly suggest you get Microsoft True Type Font Extensions (name:
ttfext.exe size: 478KB) from microsoft.com/typography
This utility will tell you thanks to a right-click/Properties on an
installed fonts which charsets can be rendered with such font.

2- In MSIE 6, do
Tools/Internet Options.../Fonts button/Language Script: select/Cyrillic/
and then choose among your installed fonts a default font which will
render Cyrillic accordingly. This is where you can make proper setting.
The problem with this small window interface is that you can not see all
Cyrillic characters as they are rendered but only 8 characters.

3- A properly coded webpage and a properly configured server will very
rarely cause language or character set rendering problem to an user
using a modern browser (e.g.: MSIE 6, Mozilla 1.x, Opera 7.x, Safari
1.x, etc).

DU
Jul 20 '05 #10

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