473,737 Members | 9,590 Online
Bytes | Software Development & Data Engineering Community
+ Post

Home Posts Topics Members FAQ

Large web site, need to do some major rearrangement of files...

I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages... It's a reference site for ham radio
folks and as an example, one page indexes over
1.8 gb of on-line PDF documents.

The site is structured as an upside-down tree, and
(if I remember correctly) never more than 4 levels.

The site basically grew (like the creeping black blob) ...
all the pages were created in Notepad over the last
10 years.

We're now having to re-arrange the site, and find that
we have to move entire folders of pages to other
locations.

Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.

Moving one index page requires editing everything
that points to it and from it, and moving a glossary
page would require editing over 100 pages (scattered
across almost every folder) that pointed to it.

I've been told to use Microsoft FrontPage as it allows
you to automatically updating other links when a page
is changed or moved. Others have said that Dreamweaver
will do it. Others have said that "Hot Metal Pro" will do it,
or Adobe GoLive.

The only one of the above that I have had access to for
experimentation is Front Page and after experimenting
with it for a while I have decioded that it is NOT an option
due to the typical Microsoft "BLOAT". It would create
more problems than it would solve.

Every one of our pages is lean and mean html, and I've found
that you can suck any one of the pages into FP-2000 (the
only version I have access to) and it IMMEDIATELY reformats
it and there is no option to prevent that.

My experimentation settled on this: You suck in a page file,
flag the page as having been changed (even by just adding
one character somewhere, even in a meta tag) and then save
the page and you will find that it is mote than triple the size...
(mostly due to division, style and font tags that were added
behind your back). _this is unacceptable_. Maybe this
behavior has been fixed in FP-XP or some replacement,
I do not know.

Our audience is over 60% dialup and download speed is
important (which is why we hand edit everything and use
mostly html 3 standards).

How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?

Jan 21 '07 #1
20 4281
"mike" <gr*****@gmail. comwrites:
How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
First, configure your web server to return a 301 Moved Permanently for the
old URLs. That will redirect requests for the old URLs to the new ones. If
you're using Apache, you can use the RedirectPermane nt directive for that.

Now, apply the "squeaky wheel" rule. Watch your web server logs and see which
redirects are getting hit the most often, and what their referrers are. Those
referrers (assuming they're your pages) will be the pages you want to update
first.

Another reason to watch those referrers: There may be "deep links" from out-
side your site that lead to a page you've moved. As a courtesy, you can let
those folks know that they need to update their links.

The 301 redirect only takes an additional fraction of a second, even on dial-
up, so you don't need to feel pressured to find and fix every last link at
the same time. That kind of pressure often leads to a rushed job, which leads
to mistakes.

As far as actually making the edits goes, I'm a Mac guy, so I'm not familiar
enough with Windows software to make a specific recommendation. As you've
mentioned, you want to avoid anything that rewrites your code behind your
back. Beyond that, any editor that can do a multi-file search & replace will
be a big help.

sherm--

--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Jan 21 '07 #2
In our last episode,
<11************ **********@a75g 2000cwd.googleg roups.com>, the lovely and
talented mike broadcast on comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html:
How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?

To maintain a site like that I think you need some combination of
a database and a scripting or preprocessing language.

This would allow you to refer to links symbolically in page templates,
change the links as necessary in your database, and generate pages with the
scripting or preprocessing language. For the scripting/preprocessing
component, the major choices are perl and PHP. Although PHP is widely used
to generate pages dynamically, it can also be used as an offline
preprocessor (CLI --- command line interface). Both PHP and perl have
support for a variety of databases, one of which is likely to be suitable to
your platform. A make utilitity is also very handy for keeping track of
dependencies so you need only regenerate those pages actually affected by
particular changes instead of having to regenerate the whole site for every
little change.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/ <http://myspace.com/larseighner>
Countdown: 730 days to go.
Jan 21 '07 #3
On 2007-01-21, mike <gr*****@gmail. comwrote:
[snip]
Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.

Moving one index page requires editing everything
that points to it and from it, and moving a glossary
page would require editing over 100 pages (scattered
across almost every folder) that pointed to it.
[snip]
How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
We don't know exact details, but what you want is fairly easy to do with
a short script in Python, Tcl, Perl etc., or even with a powerful text
editor like vim.

If you don't know any of those tools, any time spent learning any of
them will quickly pay for itself.
Jan 21 '07 #4
On 21 Jan 2007 13:06:41 -0800, in comp.infosystem s.www.authoring.html
"mike" <gr*****@gmail. comwrote:
>I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages... It's a reference site for ham radio
folks and as an example, one page indexes over
1.8 gb of on-line PDF documents.
[...]
>Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.
[...]
>How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
I use a multi-file text editor for this and other things:

http://www.simes.clara.co.uk/programs/xchange.htm

FWIW, my site will eventually have 350+ pages. Moving, renaming or
splitting a file has serious ramifications.

--
William Hughes, San Antonio, Texas: cv****@grandeco m.net
The Carrier Project: http://home.grandecom.net/~cvproj/carrier.htm
Support Project Valour-IT: http://soldiersangels.org/valour/index.html
Jan 21 '07 #5
mike wrote:
I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages... It's a reference site for ham radio
folks and as an example, one page indexes over
1.8 gb of on-line PDF documents.

The site is structured as an upside-down tree, and
(if I remember correctly) never more than 4 levels.

The site basically grew (like the creeping black blob) ...
all the pages were created in Notepad over the last
10 years.

We're now having to re-arrange the site, and find that
we have to move entire folders of pages to other
locations.

Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.

Moving one index page requires editing everything
that points to it and from it, and moving a glossary
page would require editing over 100 pages (scattered
across almost every folder) that pointed to it.

I've been told to use Microsoft FrontPage as it allows
you to automatically updating other links when a page
is changed or moved. Others have said that Dreamweaver
will do it. Others have said that "Hot Metal Pro" will do it,
or Adobe GoLive.

The only one of the above that I have had access to for
experimentation is Front Page and after experimenting
with it for a while I have decioded that it is NOT an option
due to the typical Microsoft "BLOAT". It would create
more problems than it would solve.

Every one of our pages is lean and mean html, and I've found
that you can suck any one of the pages into FP-2000 (the
only version I have access to) and it IMMEDIATELY reformats
it and there is no option to prevent that.

My experimentation settled on this: You suck in a page file,
flag the page as having been changed (even by just adding
one character somewhere, even in a meta tag) and then save
the page and you will find that it is mote than triple the size...
(mostly due to division, style and font tags that were added
behind your back). _this is unacceptable_. Maybe this
behavior has been fixed in FP-XP or some replacement,
I do not know.

Our audience is over 60% dialup and download speed is
important (which is why we hand edit everything and use
mostly html 3 standards).

How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
mike,

A preprocessor would help. See http://dennisbareis.com/ppwizard.htm for
one possible choice, which is free and works.

Chris Beall
Jan 21 '07 #6
"mike" <gr*****@gmail. comwrote in message
news:11******** **************@ a75g2000cwd.goo glegroups.com.. .
>I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages... It's a reference site for ham radio
folks and as an example, one page indexes over
1.8 gb of on-line PDF documents.

The site is structured as an upside-down tree, and
(if I remember correctly) never more than 4 levels.

The site basically grew (like the creeping black blob) ...
all the pages were created in Notepad over the last
10 years.

We're now having to re-arrange the site, and find that
we have to move entire folders of pages to other
locations.

Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.

Moving one index page requires editing everything
that points to it and from it, and moving a glossary
page would require editing over 100 pages (scattered
across almost every folder) that pointed to it.

I've been told to use Microsoft FrontPage as it allows
you to automatically updating other links when a page
is changed or moved. Others have said that Dreamweaver
will do it. Others have said that "Hot Metal Pro" will do it,
or Adobe GoLive.

The only one of the above that I have had access to for
experimentation is Front Page and after experimenting
with it for a while I have decioded that it is NOT an option
due to the typical Microsoft "BLOAT". It would create
more problems than it would solve.

Every one of our pages is lean and mean html, and I've found
that you can suck any one of the pages into FP-2000 (the
only version I have access to) and it IMMEDIATELY reformats
it and there is no option to prevent that.

My experimentation settled on this: You suck in a page file,
flag the page as having been changed (even by just adding
one character somewhere, even in a meta tag) and then save
the page and you will find that it is mote than triple the size...
(mostly due to division, style and font tags that were added
behind your back). _this is unacceptable_. Maybe this
behavior has been fixed in FP-XP or some replacement,
I do not know.

Our audience is over 60% dialup and download speed is
important (which is why we hand edit everything and use
mostly html 3 standards).

How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
Mike, The latest version of Frontpage, 2003, fixes many of the gripes you
have about bloat, auto-reformatting, etc. It also can optimize your HTML, to
remove comments and extra spaces for even faster download time. FP 2003,
like Dreamweaver, allows you to use Dynamic Web Templates, which could help
you quickly update large number of pages in batches with standardized
headers, footers, navigation, etc. As you noted, FP does allow you to move
or pages from within a GUI and automatically manage the links, etc. The
successor to FP is Expression Web
(http://www.microsoft.com/products/ex...b/default.mspx)
which has a free trial available.

Hand coding may get you leaner pages, but with 600 pages to update and
reorganize, it might make sense for you to find a tool that will maximize
your productivity and provide a path for easier maintenance over time.
There's a good reason that a lot of professional web developers, for whom
time is money, use DreamWeaver (fewer use FP, which because of flaws in
earlier versions is still perceived as more of an amateur's tool) rather
than Notepad, etc.

Jan 22 '07 #7
mike wrote:
I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages... It's a reference site for ham radio
folks and as an example, one page indexes over
1.8 gb of on-line PDF documents.

The site is structured as an upside-down tree, and
(if I remember correctly) never more than 4 levels.

The site basically grew (like the creeping black blob) ...
all the pages were created in Notepad over the last
10 years.

We're now having to re-arrange the site, and find that
we have to move entire folders of pages to other
locations.

Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.

Moving one index page requires editing everything
that points to it and from it, and moving a glossary
page would require editing over 100 pages (scattered
across almost every folder) that pointed to it.

I've been told to use Microsoft FrontPage as it allows
you to automatically updating other links when a page
is changed or moved. Others have said that Dreamweaver
will do it. Others have said that "Hot Metal Pro" will do it,
or Adobe GoLive.

The only one of the above that I have had access to for
experimentation is Front Page and after experimenting
with it for a while I have decioded that it is NOT an option
due to the typical Microsoft "BLOAT". It would create
more problems than it would solve.

Every one of our pages is lean and mean html, and I've found
that you can suck any one of the pages into FP-2000 (the
only version I have access to) and it IMMEDIATELY reformats
it and there is no option to prevent that.

My experimentation settled on this: You suck in a page file,
flag the page as having been changed (even by just adding
one character somewhere, even in a meta tag) and then save
the page and you will find that it is mote than triple the size...
(mostly due to division, style and font tags that were added
behind your back). _this is unacceptable_. Maybe this
behavior has been fixed in FP-XP or some replacement,
I do not know.

Our audience is over 60% dialup and download speed is
important (which is why we hand edit everything and use
mostly html 3 standards).

How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
First of all, as you work on individual pages within your site, change
all links to other file within the same site to use relative URLs. This
can be done over a period of time.

Try an experiment. Install both FrontPage and Nvu (freeware available
for Windows at <http://www.nvu.com/>). After fixing one page with
FrontPage, note all the other pages that are affected and adjusted by
FrontPage. Then make a negligible change to each with Nvu. See if Nvu
reduces the bloat.

I've never used FrontPage, but I have tried Nvu. The latter seems to
create pages that are compliant with the HTML 4.0 specification. I
still use Wordpad (not Notepad) to create and maintain my site (344
pages). I don't use Nvu because I don't like the way it formats source
files. (But that's a personal judgement based on aesthetics and not on
technical merit.)

Since I didn't use Nvu extensively, I didn't learn all its features. It
might even have the same capability as FrontPage to update links in
affected pages when you change one page.

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail? Use PGP.
See my <http://www.rossde.com/PGP/>
Jan 22 '07 #8
mike wrote:
I help manage a large web site, one that has over
600 html pages...
>
Many pages have embedded in their text hard-coded
links to other pages. In addition, every page has, in
the upper left corner (and repeated in the lower left
corner) one to three hard-coded links the the level(s)
above it.
>
Every one of our pages is lean and mean html, and I've found
that you can suck any one of the pages into FP-2000 (the
only version I have access to) and it IMMEDIATELY reformats
it and there is no option to prevent that.

My experimentation settled on this: You suck in a page file,
flag the page as having been changed (even by just adding
one character somewhere, even in a meta tag) and then save
the page and you will find that it is mote than triple the size...
(mostly due to division, style and font tags that were added
behind your back). _this is unacceptable_. Maybe this
behavior has been fixed in FP-XP or some replacement,
I do not know.
This may be only half-helpful at best, but maybe you or somebody else
can use it.

FrontPage 2002 (and I had *thought*, FP 2000, but I don't have it
around) has a switch to preserve source code formatting (who says
Microsoft doesn't listen?). It's under Tools - Page Options (which
doesn't mean it affects just the *current page's* options; rather, it
concerns options which affect the *pages*). On the "HTML Source" tab
choose the "Preserve existing HTML" radio button. It seems (or seemed)
to do it for me. FrontPage 98, I remember clearly, was quite merciless
about changing code.

Mmm, before I sign off, you might also look at the Compatibility tab on
the same Page Options window. If you're getting a bunch of DIVs added,
maybe you can try dialling down the CSS and DHTML levels.

If you can convince FP not to hack your code, but just make the link
changes (and you've already got it handy), then you should be able to
import your web, change the links site-wide, then just grab the changed
HTML files (turn off FP and put it back in the closet), ignoring all the
nasty _vti files and folders.
>
How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
Well, I use FP or DW for that. It's probably the biggest useful thing
about FP, except that it's familiar. I code mostly in Notepad or HTML
View of one of the WYSIWYGers.

HTH. GL!
--
John
Jan 22 '07 #9
On 21 Jan 2007 13:06:41 -0800, "mike" <gr*****@gmail. comwrote:
>
How do other folks manage large web sites with regard
to changing pages which affects many other folders
and pages within the web site?
The site I publish is in excess of 100,000 pages. Yes it's a
nightmare!

I use bespoke automation software to create the HTML from text files
containing the data, in this way links etc are automatically changed.

Similarly, with a change of a single link, such as a navigation link,
I use a bespoke program to search every HTML file and make the desired
change, and then upload the amended files to the server.

If the old links are in a fixed pattern, that is every HTML file
follows the same format, automation is straightforward , search for the
old pattern and replace it with the new.

Matt
Jan 22 '07 #10

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

Similar topics

4
2447
by: mickeyg | last post by:
What is the largest site that use PHP? By large site I mean a havy trafic site? How do you scale up a php site when you have a lot of traffic?
36
6394
by: Andrea Griffini | last post by:
I did it. I proposed python as the main language for our next CAD/CAM software because I think that it has all the potential needed for it. I'm not sure yet if the decision will get through, but something I'll need in this case is some experience-based set of rules about how to use python in this context. For example... is defining readonly attributes in classes worth the hassle ? Does duck-typing scale well in complex
55
5176
by: Jonas Smithson | last post by:
I've seen a few attractive multi-column sites whose geometry is based on pure CSS-P, but they're what you might call "code afficionado" sites, where the subject matter of the site is "coding practices." (One example of this is alistapart.com.) However, the project/development realities for small boutique sites are completely different from those of large commercial or institutional sites -- and I was curious to see what coding approaches...
7
1471
by: matvdl | last post by:
I have migrated my asp application to asp.net some time ago - but I am still having some difficulties in understanding the best way to mange some tasks. I currently have a page that loads a aspx web page - this page is continually refreshed - every 5 seconds or so. To do this I use the download behavior on the client to call a particular page - say newchart.aspx. The newchart.aspx than calls a custom component (vb app on another machine...
0
1159
by: Eric | last post by:
We've got a fairly large legacy ASP site, consiting of one main website with a lot of sub-folders organized in a tree under the main site. We don't use IIS Application/Virtual directories other than the main website root directory (one big application with groups of pages located in sub-folders). I'd guess we have over 200 pages now and it's growing. Now we want to create new pages in ASP.NET 2.0 (we're skipping over 1.x, but I have...
26
9319
by: myeates | last post by:
Hi Anyone ever done this? It looks like Python2.4 won't take a length arg Mathew
7
1900
by: ThunderMusic | last post by:
Hi, Ok, I find myself having a lot of troubles with URL Rewriting and I've seen on the net that in some situations, indexers have difficulty indexing sites because of some flaws in the url rewriting mecanism... Does anybody have a solution to my problem? I mean, I want to be able to localize my web site without having to dupplicate all the pages in 2-3 (fr, en, sp(optional)) directories and so the indexers can index the right content...
4
2731
by: raidvvan | last post by:
Hi there, We have been looking for some time now for a database system that can fit a large distributed computing project, but we haven't been able to find one. I was hoping that someone can point us in the right direction or give us some advice. Here is what we need. Mind you, these are ideal requirements so we do not expect to find something that fits entirely into what we need
3
2606
by: MC | last post by:
I'm developing an application that needs a large (up to 4 GB) amount of temporary file space on a local (not network-attached) disk. What are some good tactics to use in a C# program to make sure the swap space is suitable? There can be some interaction with the user to choose the swap file location, but the more the program can find out about it, the better.
0
9470
Oralloy
by: Oralloy | last post by:
Hello folks, I am unable to find appropriate documentation on the type promotion of bit-fields when using the generalised comparison operator "<=>". The problem is that using the GNU compilers, it seems that the internal comparison operator "<=>" tries to promote arguments from unsigned to signed. This is as boiled down as I can make it. Here is my compilation command: g++-12 -std=c++20 -Wnarrowing bit_field.cpp Here is the code in...
0
9334
jinu1996
by: jinu1996 | last post by:
In today's digital age, having a compelling online presence is paramount for businesses aiming to thrive in a competitive landscape. At the heart of this digital strategy lies an intricately woven tapestry of website design and digital marketing. It's not merely about having a website; it's about crafting an immersive digital experience that captivates audiences and drives business growth. The Art of Business Website Design Your website is...
1
9258
by: Hystou | last post by:
Overview: Windows 11 and 10 have less user interface control over operating system update behaviour than previous versions of Windows. In Windows 11 and 10, there is no way to turn off the Windows Update option using the Control Panel or Settings app; it automatically checks for updates and installs any it finds, whether you like it or not. For most users, this new feature is actually very convenient. If you want to control the update process,...
0
9207
tracyyun
by: tracyyun | last post by:
Dear forum friends, With the development of smart home technology, a variety of wireless communication protocols have appeared on the market, such as Zigbee, Z-Wave, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, etc. Each protocol has its own unique characteristics and advantages, but as a user who is planning to build a smart home system, I am a bit confused by the choice of these technologies. I'm particularly interested in Zigbee because I've heard it does some...
1
6749
isladogs
by: isladogs | last post by:
The next Access Europe User Group meeting will be on Wednesday 1 May 2024 starting at 18:00 UK time (6PM UTC+1) and finishing by 19:30 (7.30PM). In this session, we are pleased to welcome a new presenter, Adolph Dupré who will be discussing some powerful techniques for using class modules. He will explain when you may want to use classes instead of User Defined Types (UDT). For example, to manage the data in unbound forms. Adolph will...
0
4569
by: TSSRALBI | last post by:
Hello I'm a network technician in training and I need your help. I am currently learning how to create and manage the different types of VPNs and I have a question about LAN-to-LAN VPNs. The last exercise I practiced was to create a LAN-to-LAN VPN between two Pfsense firewalls, by using IPSEC protocols. I succeeded, with both firewalls in the same network. But I'm wondering if it's possible to do the same thing, with 2 Pfsense firewalls...
1
3278
by: 6302768590 | last post by:
Hai team i want code for transfer the data from one system to another through IP address by using C# our system has to for every 5mins then we have to update the data what the data is updated we have to send another system
2
2744
muto222
by: muto222 | last post by:
How can i add a mobile payment intergratation into php mysql website.
3
2192
bsmnconsultancy
by: bsmnconsultancy | last post by:
In today's digital era, a well-designed website is crucial for businesses looking to succeed. Whether you're a small business owner or a large corporation in Toronto, having a strong online presence can significantly impact your brand's success. BSMN Consultancy, a leader in Website Development in Toronto offers valuable insights into creating effective websites that not only look great but also perform exceptionally well. In this comprehensive...

By using Bytes.com and it's services, you agree to our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.

To disable or enable advertisements and analytics tracking please visit the manage ads & tracking page.