DB2 UDB or Oracle (who's got better support)

[NormaJean Sebastian via DBMonster.com]

Hi,
I almost read all of the "DB2 vs Oracle" thread...
The summary I got from that was all databases essentially do the same
things, the decision of which one you use primarily depends on available
skillsets, software vendor support, and customer/tech support.

I will be facing a decision on migrating our SAP Informix database to
either Oracle, DB2UDB, or Sqlserver. I don't think we are going to
SqlServer. I have some Oracle experience, I have no DB2 or DB2UDB
experience, I have lots of Informix experience.

What I would like to have discussed in this thread is the support and
quality of support available for DB2UDB (we would run on Sun) and Oracle.

The quality of the Informix support I have gotten through the years,
whether calling Lenexa(informix), SAP, or IBM has been outstanding.

In my short time with Oracle, the support does not match Informix.
Doesn't even come close. I do not know if perhaps I am just not hooked in
to the right support channels, or that's really all there is. (I use
Metalink and rarely have talked to a live Oracle support person).

I know nothing of the quality of DB2 UDB support.

I am aware the SAP & IBM recently tightened their relationship on the
DB2/DB2UDB side as informix will be fading out (as an SAP platform).
Oracle bought PeopleSoft and there are articles about oracle aiming for
some of SAP's business. Does that make IBM the database vendor of choice
for SAP?

I don't want to haggle about technical details of features/functionality
between IBM's DB2 UDB versus Oracle...

I want to hear about the non-technical, the touchy-feely human side of
support. When I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I want to pick
up the phone and get help, i don't want the run-around.

Please enlighten me on the quality of DB2 UDB support, the frequency of
database patches needed, the frequency of maintenance outages (DBA
housekeeping and what housekeeping items are needed).
Same goes for Oracle...

I feel my bottom line decision will not be based on features/functionality,
but rather on quality of support.

thank you for your input,
Norma Jean

--
Message posted via http://www.dbmonster.com

[Mark A]

"NormaJean Sebastian via DBMonster.com" <fo***@DBMonster.com> wrote in
message news:9b******************************@DBMonster.co m...

Hi,
I almost read all of the "DB2 vs Oracle" thread...
The summary I got from that was all databases essentially do the same
things, the decision of which one you use primarily depends on available
skillsets, software vendor support, and customer/tech support.

I will be facing a decision on migrating our SAP Informix database to
either Oracle, DB2UDB, or Sqlserver. I don't think we are going to
SqlServer. I have some Oracle experience, I have no DB2 or DB2UDB
experience, I have lots of Informix experience.

What I would like to have discussed in this thread is the support and
quality of support available for DB2UDB (we would run on Sun) and Oracle.

The quality of the Informix support I have gotten through the years,
whether calling Lenexa(informix), SAP, or IBM has been outstanding.

In my short time with Oracle, the support does not match Informix.
Doesn't even come close. I do not know if perhaps I am just not hooked in
to the right support channels, or that's really all there is. (I use
Metalink and rarely have talked to a live Oracle support person).

I know nothing of the quality of DB2 UDB support.

I am aware the SAP & IBM recently tightened their relationship on the
DB2/DB2UDB side as informix will be fading out (as an SAP platform).
Oracle bought PeopleSoft and there are articles about oracle aiming for
some of SAP's business. Does that make IBM the database vendor of choice
for SAP?

I don't want to haggle about technical details of features/functionality
between IBM's DB2 UDB versus Oracle...

I want to hear about the non-technical, the touchy-feely human side of
support. When I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I want to pick
up the phone and get help, i don't want the run-around.

Please enlighten me on the quality of DB2 UDB support, the frequency of
database patches needed, the frequency of maintenance outages (DBA
housekeeping and what housekeeping items are needed).
Same goes for Oracle...

I feel my bottom line decision will not be based on features/functionality, but rather on quality of support.

thank you for your input,
Norma Jean

--

I think you are asking two separate questions.

1. DB2 support in general
2. SAP support of DB2

I think most would agree that DB2 support is currently at least as good as
Informix, and probably better if you are comparing Informix support after it
was bought by IBM (I don't know about before they were bought by IBM). I
have always found DB2 support to be excellent. But you may want to check to
make sure you know what kind of DB2 support contract you will be have.

Besides the fact that Oracle is a direct competitor with SAP in application
software, IBM is one of the largest (if not the largest) customers of SAP.
But I don't think that there would be any problem using Oracle with SAP,
anymore than there would be a problem using DB2 on SUN hardware.

I believe that there are only certain DB2 releases/fixpaks that you can use
with SAP, since SAP wants to thoroughly test their software with a specific
release/fixpak. In some cases, there may even be special DB2 releases that
must be used with SAP (this has happened in the past). I would contact SAP
for details on this, and also regarding required/suggested DB2 maintenance
procedures, that will depend on which release of DB2 is being used and also
depend on the application requirements (the benefits of a reorg, etc on a
specific table may be application dependent).

But in general, backups, reorgs, runstats, etc can be done on-line in DB2
version 8, while users have write access to the database.

[Serge Rielau]

NormaJean Sebastian via DBMonster.com wrote:

Hi,
I almost read all of the "DB2 vs Oracle" thread...
The summary I got from that was all databases essentially do the same
things, the decision of which one you use primarily depends on available
skillsets, software vendor support, and customer/tech support.

I will be facing a decision on migrating our SAP Informix database to
either Oracle, DB2UDB, or Sqlserver. I don't think we are going to
SqlServer. I have some Oracle experience, I have no DB2 or DB2UDB
experience, I have lots of Informix experience. "Will" can be a fair bit out. Don't let yourself be artificially pressured.
What I would like to have discussed in this thread is the support and
quality of support available for DB2UDB (we would run on Sun) and Oracle.

The quality of the Informix support I have gotten through the years,
whether calling Lenexa(informix), SAP, or IBM has been outstanding. Good to hear. IBM recognized Informix track record in support and the
overall DB2 IM support organization is run by the Informix exec.
In the last years a lot of cross-training has happened.
So when calling in for DB2 for LUW support you may well end up in Lenexa
talking to the same people you do now.
There are actually metrics where vendors are compared in service. Maybe
google turns something up...
In my short time with Oracle, the support does not match Informix.
Doesn't even come close. I do not know if perhaps I am just not hooked in
to the right support channels, or that's really all there is. (I use
Metalink and rarely have talked to a live Oracle support person).

I know nothing of the quality of DB2 UDB support.
I am aware the SAP & IBM recently tightened their relationship on the
DB2/DB2UDB side as informix will be fading out (as an SAP platform).
Oracle bought PeopleSoft and there are articles about oracle aiming for
some of SAP's business. Does that make IBM the database vendor of choice
for SAP? IBM is the preferred vendor for Linux and Unix platforms.
On Windows the message is less clear.
But you are correct that the Peoplesoft acquisition certainly has added
a renewed focus. You will see the first fruits of that very soon.
I don't want to haggle about technical details of features/functionality
between IBM's DB2 UDB versus Oracle...

I want to hear about the non-technical, the touchy-feely human side of
support. When I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I want to pick
up the phone and get help, i don't want the run-around.

Please enlighten me on the quality of DB2 UDB support, the frequency of
database patches needed, the frequency of maintenance outages (DBA
housekeeping and what housekeeping items are needed).
Same goes for Oracle... DB2 ships more or less regular "Fixpacks" every 3 months.
Being on the receiving end of defects I can't comment on how many
patches teh average customer needs.. but that's why you post here :-)
I feel my bottom line decision will not be based on features/functionality,
but rather on quality of support. Wise.
thank you for your input,
Norma Jean

Cheers
Serge

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab

[Mark A]

"Serge Rielau" <sr*****@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:38*************@individual.net...

DB2 ships more or less regular "Fixpacks" every 3 months.
Being on the receiving end of defects I can't comment on how many
patches teh average customer needs.. but that's why you post here :-)

Serge Rielau

Usually, SAP only certifies certain release/fixpak combinations, so DB2
upgrades are that often if you use SAP. Depends on which release of SAP one
is using, but obviously they stay behind the curve a little bit to avoid
surprises.

[Mark A]

"Mark A" <no****@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xb********************@comcast.com...

Usually, SAP only certifies certain release/fixpak combinations, so DB2
upgrades are that often if you use SAP. Depends on which release of SAP one is using, but obviously they stay behind the curve a little bit to avoid
surprises.

Correction:

Usually, SAP only certifies certain release/fixpak combinations, so DB2
upgrades are NOT that often if you use SAP.

[EDWARD LIPSON]

Norma Jean,
I have DBAs working for me who support all four of the major databases
(Oracle, Sybase, MSSQL, UDB) on open systems, plus M/F. No Informix.

Both Oracle and UDB have really strong on-line support networks. You
open a critical problem, you get a call back. Both are very similar.
Sybase too, but I use it less frequently.

We have Aliance support with Sybase, so we go to a specific person
with all our problems, or his backup ot manager. In a local office. I
can't really talk about MSSQL support, I'm not on the coverage letters,
so I have to go through an interal person who is.
I recently dealt with critical system outage problems in Oracle and
UDB. We had issues getting Oracle to escalate to the duty manager to
get a level two person onto the problem. It was our communications
failure in the TAR, not using the correct words. IBM seemed to get us
to level two (that was the call back person for out ticket) more
quickly when we put the PMR in as a SEV1. No wording issues. With IBM
we can get to level three people too. I have never seen that happen
with Oracle. But it might be that we have a bigger relationship with
IBM than we have with Oracle.
Patches come out way to frequently. We are behind before we start,
with all of the DBMSes. Try patching 30 Oracle or 50 UDB instances.
Just the application testing alone can take a patch cycle. You never
catch up. Just doing the Security ones is hard.
All three, Sybase, Oracle, UDB, have issues with fixing problems when
they are difficult. Wait for the next EBF, they say. In reality you don't
want special builds either, but you do want the vendors to commit to
fixing a bug in the version you are on (91) rather than wait for the next
version (10g). Their fix lists are impossible to understand. Lots of
words, but you never know if your problem is fixed unless you can reproduce
it and test it. I have generally waited longer for Sybase and Oracle to
fix something than UDB. Most stuff in UDB gets turned around to the
next or the follow on fixpack (depends on the fix pack generation cycle).
Sybase fixes it in one spot but not others, Oracle says to wait for a new
version and then in stealth mode fixes it at the next point release.

NV> Please enlighten me on the quality of DB2 UDB support, the frequency of
NV> database patches needed, the frequency of maintenance outages (DBA
NV> housekeeping and what housekeeping items are needed).
NV> Same goes for Oracle...

NV> I feel my bottom line decision will not be based on features/functionality,
NV> but rather on quality of support.

Edward Lipson via Relaynet.org Moondog
ed***********@moondog.com el*****@bankofny.com
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