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UDB Gui Tools

P: n/a
OK, IBM, why are these tools prone to hang-ups, brown screens, and
just overall inadequate performance? I've got a standard PC with 1/2
gig of memory but DB2 CC just comes-up with a big brown nothing
display....running 8.2.0 and working with HADR but the wizard and HADR
panels are crushingly slow when they actually display results.

I visit many sites over a year and this is consistent from site to
site, client to client so it isn't just my equipment.

Just wondering.

Bruce
Nov 12 '05 #1
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14 Replies


P: n/a
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
..

I appreciate your time in reporting the problem and giving us some details
on your set up and scenarios. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Abby

"Bruce M" <bw********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18**************************@posting.google.c om...
OK, IBM, why are these tools prone to hang-ups, brown screens, and
just overall inadequate performance? I've got a standard PC with 1/2
gig of memory but DB2 CC just comes-up with a big brown nothing
display....running 8.2.0 and working with HADR but the wizard and HADR
panels are crushingly slow when they actually display results.

I visit many sites over a year and this is consistent from site to
site, client to client so it isn't just my equipment.

Just wondering.

Bruce

Nov 12 '05 #2

P: n/a
Hello,

Abby Mac wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.

I can only agree. The Java GUI is really slow and nearly unusable. On
one of our servers
it takes nearly a minute just to start (Linux, UDB 8.1, P4 3 Ghz and 2
GB RAM with only DB2 running). I first tried to migrate our database
using the db2cc but meanwhile I switched to the db2 CLP. It is really
sad how bad the performance with the Java tools (even as they use IBMs
own JRE)...

Jan

Nov 12 '05 #3

P: n/a
FWIW, I just ran an experiment on my Thinkpad:
P M 1.6GHz, 1GB RAM, W2K
After a reboot it takes 30sec to start cc.
Closing the window and restarting cc alone takes under 10s.
I have a DB2 V8.2 ESE install as default.

Cheers
Serge
Nov 12 '05 #4

P: n/a
"Abby Mac" <ab*****@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message news:<41********@news3.prserv.net>...
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.

I appreciate your time in reporting the problem and giving us some details
on your set up and scenarios. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Abby


I am not Bruce, but here is my problem:

Server: AIX 5.2, DB2 8.1 FP4a, Multiple Instances, one DB2
administrative server. vmstat shows low CPU utilization and plenty of
memory available on the AIX box.

DB2 Adminstrative Client: Windows XP Professional SP1, DB2 8.1 FP6
(also tried PF4a).

Simple Control Center Tasks work OK, but longer ones take 5-10
minutes. Listing the indexes in a database takes about 10 seconds
(first time) but listing 200 tables in a database takes 5 minutes.
Wizards and Replication Center tools return error listed below after
about 10 minutes. I know the GUI works fine on my DB2 Linux server at
home, but the one at work is unusable.

SQL22212N A DB2 Administration Server communication error has
been detected. Client system: "10.194.6.194". Server system
"10.192.137.168".

Explanation:

A DB2 Administration Server communication error has been
detected. Possible causes include the following:

1. The DB2 Administration Server at the server system was shut
down by the system administrator.

2. The DB2 Administration Server at the server system was
terminated due to an internal or system error.

3. The DB2 Administration Server is not installed at the server
system.

4. The DB2 Administration Server has not been cataloged
correctly at the client system.

5. The communication subsystem at the client system or server
system has not been configured correctly, or has not been
started successfully.

6. A network error has caused the connection to go down.

7. An internal error in the DB2 Administration Server caused the
connection to go down.

User Response:

Verify the following:

1. The DB2 Administration Server has not been shut down.

2. The DB2 Administration Server has not been terminated.

3. The DB2 Administration Server has been installed at the
server system.

4. The remote DB2 Administration Server is cataloged properly on
the client system.

5. The communication subsystems on both client and server
systems are configured and started up properly.

6. The network is operating properly.

7. Nothing to verify.

If the problem persists, consult with your network administrator
or contact IBM Customer Support.
Nov 12 '05 #5

P: n/a
Jan Suchanek <ja**********@gmx.de> wrote in message news:<41******@news.uni-ulm.de>...
Hello,

Abby Mac wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.

I can only agree. The Java GUI is really slow and nearly unusable. On
one of our servers
it takes nearly a minute just to start (Linux, UDB 8.1, P4 3 Ghz and 2
GB RAM with only DB2 running). I first tried to migrate our database
using the db2cc but meanwhile I switched to the db2 CLP. It is really
sad how bad the performance with the Java tools (even as they use IBMs
own JRE)...

Jan

Abby -

Overall, running a test installation for suitability on UDB 8.2 on
Linux.

Question 1: are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows
(NT, Win2K).
Answer 1: The 2 DB servers are x-series 345 with RH Linux 2.4.21-9.
with 4 gig of memory. My personal workstation is a 500mz Dell with
512mb memory. I'm running DB2CC locally to a cataloged database on
the 2 servers closeby.

Question 2: are you running remote administration (if so, details on
client server configuation)
Answer 2: Yep...remote admin to the servers with the latest admin
client on my pc at 8.2.

Question 3: are there other applications running on your system?
Answer 3: No. Nothing else is running on the Linux servers and only
a webbrowser locally for my email.

Question 4: Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs?
Answer 4: Often times, no. Just a big, brown area on my screen
where there should be control center gui. Sometimes it works fine but
often it just hangs with no response and task manager is needed to end
DB2CC.

Question 5: From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response
time, were you (a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which
page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup
wizard
Answer 5: Usually the delay is (a)opening the Wizard.

Now, I'm doing some pretty cool stuff here...I'm testing federation
with HADR and getting great results. I am definitely impressed with
8.2 aside from these annoying problems with DB2CC and some of the
wizards. BTW I think that its false advertising to say that DB2 now
supports 'rename column' when it only appears to be exporting the
table, dropping the table, re-creating the table, and then loading the
data back with the newly changed column...good thing I didn't try it
on a huge table...

Other than that I like the product; IBM's done a great job.
Nov 12 '05 #6

P: n/a
Jan Suchanek <ja**********@gmx.de> wrote in message news:<41******@news.uni-ulm.de>...
Hello,

Abby Mac wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.

I can only agree. The Java GUI is really slow and nearly unusable. On
one of our servers
it takes nearly a minute just to start (Linux, UDB 8.1, P4 3 Ghz and 2
GB RAM with only DB2 running). I first tried to migrate our database
using the db2cc but meanwhile I switched to the db2 CLP. It is really
sad how bad the performance with the Java tools (even as they use IBMs
own JRE)...

Jan


I have never ever gotten anywhere near that kind of performance
probably because most of my client's PCs usually only have 256mb to
512mb of memory. I understand that Java's a memory beast but it
simply (IMHO) shouldn't take these sorts of resources to run DB2CC.
Referring to Jan's posting just above us he says he had 2gb of ram but
he gets lousy performance also.

When I go from db2 client site to db2 client site normally the very
first thing they say to me is 'DB2 Sucks. The tools don't work'.
Almost guaranteed that's what they say.
Nov 12 '05 #7

P: n/a
Bruce M wrote:
Jan Suchanek <ja**********@gmx.de> wrote in message news:<41******@news.uni-ulm.de>...
Hello,

Abby Mac wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.


I can only agree. The Java GUI is really slow and nearly unusable. On
one of our servers
it takes nearly a minute just to start (Linux, UDB 8.1, P4 3 Ghz and 2
GB RAM with only DB2 running). I first tried to migrate our database
using the db2cc but meanwhile I switched to the db2 CLP. It is really
sad how bad the performance with the Java tools (even as they use IBMs
own JRE)...

Jan

I have never ever gotten anywhere near that kind of performance
probably because most of my client's PCs usually only have 256mb to
512mb of memory. I understand that Java's a memory beast but it
simply (IMHO) shouldn't take these sorts of resources to run DB2CC.
Referring to Jan's posting just above us he says he had 2gb of ram but
he gets lousy performance also.

When I go from db2 client site to db2 client site normally the very
first thing they say to me is 'DB2 Sucks. The tools don't work'.
Almost guaranteed that's what they say.

What I have noticed is that when the GUI tools are running on Linux,
each tool opened causes an additional JVM to be created. Each one uses
about 30MB of memory. So after opening Control Center, Journal, and
Task Manager, the system is paging heavily.

I asked an IBMer at the Toronto IDUG last year about it, but she never
followed up with me.

The easiest thing is to use the GUI tools from another box. They seem
to be a lot less memory intensive on a Windows machines.

Norm
Nov 12 '05 #8

P: n/a
Hi Norm.. I hope that you are aware of that if you runs java on Linux
, Java SDK implements Java threads as native threads, which results in
each thread being a separate Linux process. If the number of Java
threads exceeds the maximum number of processes allowed, your program
might get an error message, a SIGSEGV error, or your system might
hang.
The maximum number of threads available is determined by the minimum
of:
The user processes setting (ulimit -u) in /etc/security/limits.conf
The limit that is defined in /proc/sys/kernel/threads_max
The limit PTHREAD_THREADS_MAX that is defined in libpthreads.so
(change requires glibc to be recompiled)

I have been running Linux (Suse SLES 8 on a Pseries box with P4+
procs) with DB2 UDB v8 and I have not seen/had the problems your are
describing... Check the limits above.
Nov 12 '05 #9

P: n/a
m0****@qwest.net (Mark) wrote in message news:<59**************************@posting.google. com>...
"Abby Mac" <ab*****@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message news:<41********@news3.prserv.net>...
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues
that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration
and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server
configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you
(a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard
.

I appreciate your time in reporting the problem and giving us some details
on your set up and scenarios. Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

Abby


I am not Bruce, but here is my problem:

Server: AIX 5.2, DB2 8.1 FP4a, Multiple Instances, one DB2
administrative server. vmstat shows low CPU utilization and plenty of
memory available on the AIX box.

DB2 Adminstrative Client: Windows XP Professional SP1, DB2 8.1 FP6
(also tried PF4a).

Simple Control Center Tasks work OK, but longer ones take 5-10
minutes. Listing the indexes in a database takes about 10 seconds
(first time) but listing 200 tables in a database takes 5 minutes.
Wizards and Replication Center tools return error listed below after
about 10 minutes. I know the GUI works fine on my DB2 Linux server at
home, but the one at work is unusable.

SQL22212N A DB2 Administration Server communication error has
been detected. Client system: "10.194.6.194". Server system
"10.192.137.168".

Explanation:

A DB2 Administration Server communication error has been
detected. Possible causes include the following:

1. The DB2 Administration Server at the server system was shut
down by the system administrator.

2. The DB2 Administration Server at the server system was
terminated due to an internal or system error.

3. The DB2 Administration Server is not installed at the server
system.

4. The DB2 Administration Server has not been cataloged
correctly at the client system.

5. The communication subsystem at the client system or server
system has not been configured correctly, or has not been
started successfully.

6. A network error has caused the connection to go down.

7. An internal error in the DB2 Administration Server caused the
connection to go down.

User Response:

Verify the following:

1. The DB2 Administration Server has not been shut down.

2. The DB2 Administration Server has not been terminated.

3. The DB2 Administration Server has been installed at the
server system.

4. The remote DB2 Administration Server is cataloged properly on
the client system.

5. The communication subsystems on both client and server
systems are configured and started up properly.

6. The network is operating properly.

7. Nothing to verify.

If the problem persists, consult with your network administrator
or contact IBM Customer Support.

================================

The HADR 'Manage' Gui, 'doesn't. Its confused now as to which is the
active and which is the standby server...I'm getting java threading
errors, errors that say the 'database alias name cannot be found'
(well, it is there), "This database is not configured for HADR. Use
the Set Up High Availability Disaster Recovery (HADR) Databases wizard
to configure and start HADR." (well, it is configured properly since
I am able to use a CLI 'takeover' and that works fine), THEN I click
'cancel' on the HADR 'manage' gui, retry the gui, and it seems to
resolve itself...

Bruce
Nov 12 '05 #10

P: n/a
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the info. HADR setup requires the remote DAS and instance to be
up and running. This detection may cause delay when the wizard is starting
up. I have opened a defect to correct the problem in the next release.

For general CC performance issues, Richard posted this reply in another
message thread initiated by you in a separate newsgroup:

Hi Bruce,

The main "challenge" with our tools is that they must run on multiple
platforms (Linux, Unix, Windows) which forces us to use java or other
portable language/libraries. They therefore cannot compete with
Windows-only tools and require a much more powerful machine than most
expect. Even though the official requirements are much smaller, it is best
to run our tools with a 1Ghz machine with 1Gb of memory or better.

Please open some PMRs for every problem you see in the GA level of the code
and we will correct the situation.

"Bruce M" <bw********@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18**************************@posting.google.c om...
Jan Suchanek <ja**********@gmx.de> wrote in message

news:<41******@news.uni-ulm.de>...
Hello,

Abby Mac wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Thanks for your feedback. In order for us to address the performance issues that you experience, it's important for us to understand your configuration and set up:
- are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows (NT, Win2K)
- are you running remote administration (if so, details on client server configuation)
- are there other applications running on your system
- Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs
- From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response time, were you (a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which page), or (3) performing backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup wizard .

I can only agree. The Java GUI is really slow and nearly unusable. On
one of our servers
it takes nearly a minute just to start (Linux, UDB 8.1, P4 3 Ghz and 2
GB RAM with only DB2 running). I first tried to migrate our database
using the db2cc but meanwhile I switched to the db2 CLP. It is really
sad how bad the performance with the Java tools (even as they use IBMs
own JRE)...

Jan

Abby -

Overall, running a test installation for suitability on UDB 8.2 on
Linux.

Question 1: are you running on Linux (which distribution) or Windows
(NT, Win2K).
Answer 1: The 2 DB servers are x-series 345 with RH Linux 2.4.21-9.
with 4 gig of memory. My personal workstation is a 500mz Dell with
512mb memory. I'm running DB2CC locally to a cataloged database on
the 2 servers closeby.

Question 2: are you running remote administration (if so, details on
client server configuation)
Answer 2: Yep...remote admin to the servers with the latest admin
client on my pc at 8.2.

Question 3: are there other applications running on your system?
Answer 3: No. Nothing else is running on the Linux servers and only
a webbrowser locally for my email.

Question 4: Do you see a progress indicator for long running jobs?
Answer 4: Often times, no. Just a big, brown area on my screen
where there should be control center gui. Sometimes it works fine but
often it just hangs with no response and task manager is needed to end
DB2CC.

Question 5: From the HADR wizard, when you observe delay in response
time, were you (a)opening the wizard, (2) turning the page (which
page), or (3) performing
backup via the wizard, or(4) when you click Finish in the HADR setup
wizard
Answer 5: Usually the delay is (a)opening the Wizard.

Now, I'm doing some pretty cool stuff here...I'm testing federation
with HADR and getting great results. I am definitely impressed with
8.2 aside from these annoying problems with DB2CC and some of the
wizards. BTW I think that its false advertising to say that DB2 now
supports 'rename column' when it only appears to be exporting the
table, dropping the table, re-creating the table, and then loading the
data back with the newly changed column...good thing I didn't try it
on a huge table...

Other than that I like the product; IBM's done a great job.

Nov 12 '05 #11

P: n/a
Since I got the tools in Java, I've been meaning to write because I
have the same experience. (Win 2k and XP.) Previously, the GUIs
almost popped up!

Made me wonder why IBM is insisting on Java for this purpose? Is it
to convince us NOT to use Java in our apps?

Surely IBM can afford to write and compile in appropriate code for the
platform, given that DB2 is done that way?

Mystery.

Stanley Sinclair

bw********@yahoo.com (Bruce M) wrote in message news:<18**************************@posting.google. com>...
OK, IBM, why are these tools prone to hang-ups, brown screens, and
just overall inadequate performance? I've got a standard PC with 1/2
gig of memory but DB2 CC just comes-up with a big brown nothing
display....running 8.2.0 and working with HADR but the wizard and HADR
panels are crushingly slow when they actually display results.

I visit many sites over a year and this is consistent from site to
site, client to client so it isn't just my equipment.

Just wondering.

Bruce

Nov 12 '05 #12

P: n/a
"Stanley Sinclair" <st*************@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6f**************************@posting.google.c om...
Since I got the tools in Java, I've been meaning to write because I
have the same experience. (Win 2k and XP.) Previously, the GUIs
almost popped up!

Made me wonder why IBM is insisting on Java for this purpose? Is it
to convince us NOT to use Java in our apps?

Surely IBM can afford to write and compile in appropriate code for the
platform, given that DB2 is done that way?

Mystery.

Stanley Sinclair

Java was supposed to be the MS Windows killer, but it hasn't worked out that
way. Executives don't want to hear about the fact that Java works poorly,
they just want to hear that it might harm Microsoft and the code is portable
across platforms.

At one time (version 5 or 6, I don't remember) the DB2 GUI tools were web
based (Java also), and that was even worse. I could never get the web tools
to work AT ALL, and I never met another DBA who got them to work either.

But not all the problems are because of the Java. I cannot understand why
the Control Center cannot remember my preferences for such things as msg
files for loads, imports, etc; and remember backup paths, etc. The managers
in charge of the Control Center (and most other GUI tools) are incompetent.

Believe it or not, the GUI was once the strong point of DB2 (back in the
OS/2 DBM days). It had a very good OS/2 native GUI interface, including a
good GUI application development tool that was included for free. Back in
those days DB2 did not even have roll forward recovery, but at least it has
a decent GUI.
Nov 12 '05 #13

P: n/a
Roger wrote:
Hi Norm.. I hope that you are aware of that if you runs java on Linux
, Java SDK implements Java threads as native threads, which results in
each thread being a separate Linux process. If the number of Java
threads exceeds the maximum number of processes allowed, your program
might get an error message, a SIGSEGV error, or your system might
hang.
The maximum number of threads available is determined by the minimum
of:
The user processes setting (ulimit -u) in /etc/security/limits.conf
The limit that is defined in /proc/sys/kernel/threads_max
The limit PTHREAD_THREADS_MAX that is defined in libpthreads.so
(change requires glibc to be recompiled)

I have been running Linux (Suse SLES 8 on a Pseries box with P4+
procs) with DB2 UDB v8 and I have not seen/had the problems your are
describing... Check the limits above.

How do you control the amount of memory that is allocated for each
process starting up? I never ran into maximum thread errors. Can I
make the each of the tools start up with only 1MB of memory?

Thanks,
Norm
Nov 12 '05 #14

P: n/a
I just guess I'll have to settle for < 30 seconds to start the CC on my
laptop for the first load then < 10 seconds for a restart. (1.6mhz
Pentium-M, 1g memory.) Of course, I suspect that using Linux instead of
XP has a lot to do with that.

Java will never run as fast as a compiled language but it's not always
all that slow.

Phil Sherman

Stanley Sinclair wrote:
Since I got the tools in Java, I've been meaning to write because I
have the same experience. (Win 2k and XP.) Previously, the GUIs
almost popped up!

Made me wonder why IBM is insisting on Java for this purpose? Is it
to convince us NOT to use Java in our apps?

Surely IBM can afford to write and compile in appropriate code for the
platform, given that DB2 is done that way?

Mystery.

Stanley Sinclair


Nov 12 '05 #15

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.