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database market share 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040526/tech_...etshare_1.html

Interesting to see that database sales for windows is more than
Unix.
Nov 12 '05
346 16701
wi*******@yahoo .com.au (Noons) wrote in message news:<73******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...
Darin McBride <dm******@naboo .to.org.no.spam .for.me> wrote in message news:<5JGvc.659 814$Ig.278119@p d7tw2no>...
Honesty would require removing only the portion of the AS/400
market which is not actually using DB2, whatever that may be.
Thank you for admitting IBM is NOT being honest.
WTF doesn't IBM do it?
You must
concede, however, that doing that is not easy.


Yes it is.


How can it be easy without quantification?
honest method of reporting, but it is not easy to do. A customer may
buy an AS/400 not intending to use DB2, and then do so anyway (they are
licensed to do it afterall).
No. Cite one.
Or a customer may purchase Oracle for HP
and then the project is cancelled - discounting this from Oracle's
numbers is not going to be any easier.


Cite one.


Did you notice a sig I posted a couple of days ago regarding Sony? I
know of 2 there (although I can't recall if it was HP or another
platform). Such things can be expected, and can be difficult to
quantify. And I know personally of a couple of other cases local to
me where a company was buying stuff and then got aquired, mooting the
project. And even some government projects that spent the capital
budget on hardware and licenses only to have the contractor never
deliver the app. And I'm quite sure this is far too common.
It would mean going to each
vendor's customers, and verifying that each one is using what they paid
for. Definitely honest, but is it going to produce significantly
different numbers that would justify the expense?
Yes. Ask IBM to provide the numbers: they have
them.


I have a bit of trouble with this. I haven't had any exposure to
AS400, but I've seen other vendors older machines where the vendors
have no idea what is being used unless there is a support call, and
with mature installations there may not be many of those. What would
make IBM any different (at least since the 1956 consent agreement :-)?
And I've seen O installations that have lapsed support, O doesn't
know about them until someone like me comes in and says "ummmm..."
I'm sure there is plenty that IBM is not telling, but I'm not so sure
we can divine exactly what that is.

I doubt it.


That is why the Gartner "numbers" are widely derided:
the lightness with which they make incorrect assumptions
about "markets" and the lightness with which they'll accept
ANY claims from ANY maker, proportional to the cachet that
accompanies such claims.


Agreed.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus. "Researcher s have found some people who always
tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, regardless of the
outcome. They tend to have limited and difficult social lives."
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont..._1c3lying.html
Nov 12 '05 #81
> these are 3 different code bases, still not fully compatible at the
DML level, much less DDL. is anyone at IBM willing to assert that they
are now from 1 code base?


They are not the same code base.

- DB2/400 is one code base (Oracle doesn't support that platform)
- DB2 for Linux, UNIX, and Windows is another code base
- DB2 for OS/390 and z/OS is another code base (Oracle has a product on this
platform, but it performs poorly compared to DB2 - because it shares the
codebase of its other products, and most customers hardly ever use it even
if it is installed).

So among these three platform groups, Oracle is only widely used on one of
them (Linux, UNIX ,and Windows) where DB2 does have the same codebase. Also
note that DB2 for Linux runs on IBM mainframes (same code base as DB2 for
Linux, UNIX, and Windows).
Nov 12 '05 #82
> >
That is why the Gartner "numbers" are widely derided:
the lightness with which they make incorrect assumptions
about "markets" and the lightness with which they'll accept
ANY claims from ANY maker, proportional to the cachet that
accompanies such claims.


Agreed.

jg


There are numbers published by someone on market share per operating system.
I don't know if they are from Gartner or someone else.

I still don't understand the relevance of the market share argument is,
assuming that the market share is large enough to guarantee the product will
around for a long time. Obviously this is not an issue with DB2, Oracle, or
SQL Server, but might be for Sybase and Informix.

The fact is that Oracle was first to market (of the top 3) with a good
product on midrange operating systems. They built a large installed base
because of that. The Oracle market share has been dropping, especially on
new installations, as MS and IBM have improved their DBMS products.
Nov 12 '05 #83

"robert" <gn*****@rcn.co m> schreef in bericht
news:da******** *************** **@posting.goog le.com...
"Mark A" <ma@switchboard .net> wrote in message

news:<c9******* ********@news.u swest.net>...
You can't call the fact that I, personally, have never run into
DB2 on Windows nonsense. And you sure can't dig your way out of it
by making reference to HP and Sun hardware unless you are somehow
equating Solaris with a Microsoft product.

So I'll try the statement again ... I ... that means mean personally, in 35 years in this industry ... seen DB2 on Windows in any organization
that didn't have DB2 also on another IBM platform such as a mainframe
or AS400.

I can not be wrong about my personal experience.

If you wish to prove that my personal experience is somehow skewed and
not representative of the database market as a whole ... then here's
how you can do it.

Publish official numbers showing the number of DB2 licenses, on MS
Windows, that are in companies that are not also using DB2 on mainframes or AS400. Simple.

--
Daniel Morgan


I didn't say anything about your "personal experience." I just said your
comments are nonsense. If you prefer: "your [limited] experience is
non-sense."
I have seen many DB2 installations on Windows. Since you live in Washington state, where there is an extreme MS bias, most companies use MS SQL Server on Windows. That combination is strong, but not quite as dominant in other parts of the country.

Excluding all companies that also run DB2 on OS/390 and AS/400 is quite
restrictive. I believe that are over 2000 companies who use DB2 on IBM
mainframes. The number of companies that run AS/400 (or I series) is in the tens of thousands, and DB2 comes with the OS.

So you seem to be excluding a huge percentage of the largest 5000 companies in the US (most of whom have at least one IBM mainframe running DB2 or an AS/400 which comes with DB2).

So your comments are ridiculous (again). Double-talk. Non-Sense.


so far as i know, oracle is oracle is oracle, no matter the platform.
not so for DB2:


Oracle is oracle is oracle?
Why then does Oracle publish, next to their general documentation, also
quite a few manuals specifically for Oracle on OS/390 ?

<snip>
Nov 12 '05 #84
> > so far as i know, oracle is oracle is oracle, no matter the platform.
not so for DB2:


Oracle is oracle is oracle?
Why then does Oracle publish, next to their general documentation, also
quite a few manuals specifically for Oracle on OS/390 ?

Oracle on OS/390 is basically the same codebase as the other Oracle
platforms. Which is the reason that it works so poorly on OS/390 and few of
the companies who have it installed use it for production applications.

Then why do companies (over 500) buy Oracle for OS/390 if it works so poorly
compared to DB2 for OS/390. One consultant told me: "For the same reason
that people buy pet rocks."
Nov 12 '05 #85
Precisely! The case is made that different code bases is actually
better! You've got to have different exploitative code on each platform.
And what really counts? From an application perspective, they are highly
portable. DDL and DML compatibility are (last I heard) > 97% (and DDL
must be slightly different between platforms to account for the
differing storage constructs between them, e.g.).

So ... no ... they are not from 1 code base ... but it's the next best
thing ... they are close. Close and at the same time highly optimized
for each platform. All things considered, pretty darn good considering
that these are requirements that conflict with each other.

Larry Edelstein

Mark A wrote:
these are 3 different code bases, still not fully compatible at the
DML level, much less DDL. is anyone at IBM willing to assert that they
are now from 1 code base?

They are not the same code base.

- DB2/400 is one code base (Oracle doesn't support that platform)
- DB2 for Linux, UNIX, and Windows is another code base
- DB2 for OS/390 and z/OS is another code base (Oracle has a product on this
platform, but it performs poorly compared to DB2 - because it shares the
codebase of its other products, and most customers hardly ever use it even
if it is installed).

So among these three platform groups, Oracle is only widely used on one of
them (Linux, UNIX ,and Windows) where DB2 does have the same codebase. Also
note that DB2 for Linux runs on IBM mainframes (same code base as DB2 for
Linux, UNIX, and Windows).


Nov 12 '05 #86
You guys got me thinking, what would I find on IBM's web site
about OS/390? Got my curiousity going, and so I went over to
IBM and did a search for OS/390. What did I find?

"IBM announces the end of service for OS/390 2.10, the last
release of OS/390, will be September 30, 2004. Customers on OS/390
2.10 should be making plans to complete their migrations to z/OS
1.4 by this date. IBM also announces the end of service for z/OS
1.2 will be October 31, 2004, and the end of service for z/OS 1.3
will be March 31, 2005, as planned. The end of service for z/OS 1.4
will be extended to March 31, 2007. This date is the same as the
end of service date planned for z/OS 1.5. "

Does Informix run on OS/390?

I would think this a match made in heaven...

:-)
"Mark A" <ma@switchboard .net> wrote in message news:E8******** ********@news.u swest.net...
so far as i know, oracle is oracle is oracle, no matter the platform.
not so for DB2:


Oracle is oracle is oracle?
Why then does Oracle publish, next to their general documentation, also
quite a few manuals specifically for Oracle on OS/390 ?

Oracle on OS/390 is basically the same codebase as the other Oracle
platforms. Which is the reason that it works so poorly on OS/390 and few of
the companies who have it installed use it for production applications.

Then why do companies (over 500) buy Oracle for OS/390 if it works so poorly
compared to DB2 for OS/390. One consultant told me: "For the same reason
that people buy pet rocks."


Nov 12 '05 #87
"Data Goob" <da******@hotma il.com> wrote in message
news:S7******** *********@fe42. usenetserver.co m...
You guys got me thinking, what would I find on IBM's web site
about OS/390? Got my curiousity going, and so I went over to
IBM and did a search for OS/390. What did I find?

"IBM announces the end of service for OS/390 2.10, the last
release of OS/390, will be September 30, 2004. Customers on OS/390
2.10 should be making plans to complete their migrations to z/OS
1.4 by this date. IBM also announces the end of service for z/OS
1.2 will be October 31, 2004, and the end of service for z/OS 1.3
will be March 31, 2005, as planned. The end of service for z/OS 1.4
will be extended to March 31, 2007. This date is the same as the
end of service date planned for z/OS 1.5. "

Does Informix run on OS/390?

I would think this a match made in heaven...

:-)


Support service for OS/390 is being discontinued and is replaced by z/OS. It
is basically the same thing as OS/390, but with enhanced ability to perform
as a server to web clients.
Nov 12 '05 #88

"Mark A" <ma@switchboard .net> wrote in message news:ie******** ********@news.u swest.net...
"Data Goob" <da******@hotma il.com> wrote in message
news:S7******** *********@fe42. usenetserver.co m...
You guys got me thinking, what would I find on IBM's web site
about OS/390? Got my curiousity going, and so I went over to
IBM and did a search for OS/390. What did I find?

"IBM announces the end of service for OS/390 2.10, the last
release of OS/390, will be September 30, 2004. Customers on OS/390
2.10 should be making plans to complete their migrations to z/OS
1.4 by this date. IBM also announces the end of service for z/OS
1.2 will be October 31, 2004, and the end of service for z/OS 1.3
will be March 31, 2005, as planned. The end of service for z/OS 1.4
will be extended to March 31, 2007. This date is the same as the
end of service date planned for z/OS 1.5. "

Does Informix run on OS/390?

I would think this a match made in heaven...

:-)


Support service for OS/390 is being discontinued and is replaced by z/OS. It
is basically the same thing as OS/390, but with enhanced ability to perform
as a server to web clients.

OMG. Are you human? Just kidding! Seriously, is there something about
this platform that is compelling enough to consider it instead of doing things
on Linux or UNIX? Is z/OS a growth market or just something gradually
disappearing?


Nov 12 '05 #89
> > Support service for OS/390 is being discontinued and is replaced by
z/OS. It
is basically the same thing as OS/390, but with enhanced ability to perform as a server to web clients.

OMG. Are you human? Just kidding! Seriously, is there something about
this platform that is compelling enough to consider it instead of doing

things on Linux or UNIX? Is z/OS a growth market or just something gradually
disappearing?

The operating system and much of the system software on it is much more
stable than Linux or UNIX, which is why many large enterprises rely on it
for critical applications like banking, reservations, and other critical
applications. Actually the IBM mainframe boxes themselves run Linux or z/OS.

I don't think it is a growth market, nor is it disappearing. The mainframe
prices keep decreasing, and UNIX boxes get more sophisticated and more
expensive. So eventually it will probably just come down to which operating
system you want to use.

People get too hung-up on the past, and on the names of things. An IBM
mainframe is just a box, that runs an operating system, and can run local
application or with remote clients (including web clients). Things change.
Nov 12 '05 #90

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