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database market share 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040526/tech_...etshare_1.html

Interesting to see that database sales for windows is more than
Unix.
Nov 12 '05
346 16717
Serge Rielau <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> wrote in message news:<ca******* ***@hanover.tor olab.ibm.com>.. .
Other than its deranged architectrure? no. Thought so.


Plenty enough. Whoever designed that is clearly
from one background...
These two sentences do not conflict with each other. When an App is sold
into a new account (one that doesn't have a natural bias due to an
existing DBMS install - and hence skills) the app vendor has great
influence which DBMS will be sold.
Tell me something new?
If an App vendor competes with the DBMS vendor for the App space then
every sold DBMS of that vendor funds teh competitive product line.
Again, something new?
So it's in the App vendors best interest to _lead_ with another DBMS.
And by _lead_ you understand that it _only_ uses
another DBMS???????
Of course the App vendor will rather sell with any DBMS than not at all
even if the vendor is competition.
That's the mechanics of the market.
That is a moment of genius, Serge!
I don't think that claim was made anywher in this thread. Certainly not
by me.
I think it has clearly been said and implied a number of times.
Oracle claims to have (or being in progress of) CONVERTED their
development platform (from Sun ?) to Linux.
Like they did from VMS to Sequent Unix. And after that to Solaris.
DB2 for LUW main development platform is AIX (it probably was CONVERTED
from OS/2 a long time ago).
Neither statement says anything about with OS are supported.
Exactly.
The main development platform is the one that is first tested and hence
usualy first certified because the developers touch it every day.
Yes.
It is
also the one which developers tune against by default because developers
learn it's intricate details.
Most definitely not, if the maker wants to have any credibility
when it claims portability.
All other platforms usually end up getting either workarounds or
additional deep integration.

That might be the case with difficult to port products like
DB2. It certainly isn't the case with Oracle's RDBMS.
It is really important to not just pick out a single buzz word, rip it
out of context and go ballistic on a different potential meaning.


Exactly.
Nov 12 '05 #291
> This may well send a few blue suiters into apoplexy but I'll list just
a few: Is that an accidental acknowledgment of IBMers having brains?
Don't worry I'm hardy, got to be, living in Canada.

German lesson #1: the meaning of "Einen Bock schiessen"
user defined data types with inheritance and methods First DB2 Datajoiner, then merged into DB2 UDB V7 for LUW
I did Q.A. for structured types as a student in Almaden 8 years ago
- implemented inline SQL PL for efficient methods - loads of fun,
learning SQL from Don Chamberlin himself.
object-relational views First in DB2 UDB V5.2 for LUW.
My first born, aren't they beautyful :-)
object tables First in DB2 UDB V5.2 for LUW.
Oracle 10g still doesn't seem to have subtables. No UNDER clause...
array processing There you go. Oracle invented the array ;-)
One point for participation.
Of which I am very thankful for all.

You're welcome. I'm glad you like it. IBM put a lot of love into these.
http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~...lau:Serge.html

Hi Daniel, my name is Serge, I know first aid, can I help you?
Dispatch we have an _unresponsive_ UC-Wa (Extension) teacher!
Unbelievable!

Either way, I have nothing to add to this thread.

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #292
Noons wrote:
Enor P <en****@hotmail .com> wrote in message news:<2j******* *****@uni-berlin.de>...
You have looked in mirror? All shit is coming from you and Daneil Morgan.

I don't look at mirrors to post on Usenet, unlike morons
like you.


Nor do I.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #293
Noons wrote:
Enor P <en****@hotmail .com> wrote in message news:<2j******* *****@uni-berlin.de>...

Why you post on informix newsgroup? We don't care, do want hear this.

Why don't you complain about EVERYONE else who
continues to x-post there, arsehole?
I'll post wherever I want, whenever I want and
about whatever I want and you can go and shove
your offended replies where the sun doesn't shine.
Got it?


Have you ever noticed how replies, like the one above by Enor, are never
written in Oracle, SQL Server, or Sybase forums? I don't even remember
them in the Informix group before purchased. This is a curiosity of the
blue suiters. They've replaced 'hear no evil' with 'hear nothing
that isn't the party line'.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #294
Serge Rielau wrote:
This may well send a few blue suiters into apoplexy but I'll list just
a few:


Is that an accidental acknowledgment of IBMers having brains?
Don't worry I'm hardy, got to be, living in Canada.

German lesson #1: the meaning of "Einen Bock schiessen"
user defined data types with inheritance and methods


First DB2 Datajoiner, then merged into DB2 UDB V7 for LUW
I did Q.A. for structured types as a student in Almaden 8 years ago
- implemented inline SQL PL for efficient methods - loads of fun,
learning SQL from Don Chamberlin himself.
object-relational views


First in DB2 UDB V5.2 for LUW.
My first born, aren't they beautyful :-)
object tables


First in DB2 UDB V5.2 for LUW.
Oracle 10g still doesn't seem to have subtables. No UNDER clause...
array processing


There you go. Oracle invented the array ;-)
One point for participation.
Of which I am very thankful for all.


You're welcome. I'm glad you like it. IBM put a lot of love into these.
http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~...lau:Serge.html
Hi Daniel, my name is Serge, I know first aid, can I help you?
Dispatch we have an _unresponsive_ UC-Wa (Extension) teacher!
Unbelievable!

Either way, I have nothing to add to this thread.


This wasn't about who got there first. It was about non-relational
extensions to the relational engine. If you are proudly proclaiming
that DB2 is also non-relational ... then it leads to wondering why
the person that challenged Mark Townsend did so at all doesn't it.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #295
"Data Goob" <da******@hotma il.com> wrote in message news:<aF******* *******@fe40.us enetserver.com> ...
Take a few deep breaths of air, and try to calm down, you write like
you're hyper-ventalating.
You have no idea whatsoever how I write, so stop that crap
before I turn it around on you.

Sorry if I insult you right off the bat, but geez, your statement
is so blatantly wrong. I'm not sure what database products you've
actually had experience with, but it appears you haven't even used
anything but one.
Really? And your claim that my statement is wrong is based
and explained by your "deduction" of my past experience?
Care to make sense next time?

"Idiot developer" ? Geez you must be in a really bad
situation to demean people so much.
No. I just call them by the name they should have.

Actually, the necessity for training is a lot like the need
for a help desk for your software. If the software is built
correctly, the user-interface and online help should deter the
need for a lot of 'training' or help-desk support.

Actually, you don't have a CLUE about how infrastructure
products are developed or used. Here is a hint: databases
are NOT to be used by end users. Unless they are called
Access and are a joke of a toy. Got it?
If your
help desk is inundated with a lot of calls, what does that
say about your software?
If you need a lot of training, what
does that say about the design of the interface?
Probably that it is used a lot?
a DBA. SQL-Server is very robust, takes a lot of abuse, and is
pretty good with a lot of different applications.
Funny. So is Oracle. Or just about any other database you might
want to mention... See how cretin your comparisons are?
It can literally
run for years without much attendance by anyone knowing what they
are doing with it--this comes from my own personal use of the
product in our environment and we have done a lot with it.
Your "personal use"? And that is presumably more credible than anyone
else's use? Here is mine: Oracle-based apps that run for 8 years
ON NT without intervention from a DBA or any other person. How's that
for size?
It's
not my favorite, but certainly it's not difficult to use or abuse,
and has rarely if ever failed us. Failures were always user
problems.
Why are you blaming users?

Well, we've found that the more of a megalomaniac running the
company, the less the quality of the product.
Yeah, that sounds about right for Microsoft...
Oracle's culture
is of particular note in that the whole company culture centers
around sales, not product quality.
Load of bullshit.
Oracle is living off of a
database that hasn't been re-engineered in what, 10 years?
Why don't you get your facts right instead of just regurgitating
the CRAP that goes for markteting information in your neck
of the woods? You don't have the foggiest how many times
Oracle has re-engineered their product, do you? Here is a clue:
try 5 times.
SQL-Server hasn't been upgraded in at least 5 years,
Some would say since it got bought from Sybase...
but it is
a better product for a lot of reasons
Of course. "lot of reasons" is such a credible
argument...
--especially good that it
is at least a lot more like other products.
Which ones?
Oracle is vastly
different from the rest.
You have no idea whatsoever what you're talking about, do you?
:)
SQL-Server also is making inroads
from the SMB up, and is not trivial in terms of how serious
businesses take it.
Once more, in English this time?
Well, it appears to me that you have not used anything but one
product ( and I'm not sure which one that is ) .
I have. And it is clear to me you have no clue.
Uh, well, I just installed it last week on one of our systems,
10 minutes tops. Of course on a slower system it might take a
little longer, but geez, a child could install SQL-Server, it's
not that difficult.
"slower system", a P4 2GHz? What next does it need?
Oracle 9i was a pretty immature product the last time I screwed
around with it,
"screwed around" is the operative term here.
I had to create a lot of scripts to manage it,
and that is a demonstration of how difficult it is to install?
and its software footprint was over 5 GB of god only knows
what.
You don't get omelettes without cracking eggs. Funny enough,
ES is running in my 256Mb notebook and using 1Gb of disk
space for ALL the software. Must be a "weird" 9i that you're
"screwing around" with...

And given that M$ themselves recommended as the main
solution to ANY NT problem for years: "just add memory",
it appears your claim is worth just about as much as
all the other conclusions.

licensing costs were also prohibitive as well.
Funny. It cost me US$100.
Heh-heh. Intelligence could be a factor.

Definitely. Just to show how much is needed to make
the "easy product" run...
Wow, well, you can't argue with that. It's interesting that you
would want to compare Oracle, quoting "its interface has stayed the
same for the last 15 years", with other products that have advanced
their engines, tools, and interfaces several times over in the same
time period. Interesting.


Once more, the total lack of db knowledge of your argument shows up.
Databases are infra-structure software. As such, you do NOT want
to have them change their interface (SQL) with each new revision.
The maintenance impact would be enormous. So, their interface (SQL)
better stay the same. You are once again confusing toy products
with a "multimedia-rich gui" front-end with infra-structure products.
Nov 12 '05 #296
"Mark A" <no****@switchb oard.net> wrote in message news:<Sg******* *********@news. uswest.net>...
With Oracle (a little more than some other RDBMS's) programmers and users
who access the data want to know (or need to know depending on your point of
view) a little bit about the way the data is physically organized. This
includes things like rowids, certain kinds of indexes, etc.
You must be day-dreaming if you think this will stick.
What an utter load of crap.
In a pure
relational model, the physical structure of the data is isolated from the
logical structure.
And Oracle does not conform to this but DB2 does? Want me to start
quoting the differences in DB2 implementation of even the most basic
things,like its different data types across platforms?
This movement away from a pure relational model is done for performance
reasons or to add features that some programmers may want. Nevertheless
these features (no matter how much people want them) often are in violation
of both Codd's rules and ANSI SQL standards.
What a load fo bullshit. Codd never required restrictions on
ANY features of a database, provided the basics were there. That is
the reason DB2 needs one SQL manual for EVERY single platform it
runs on.
Even if you don't take my word on this subject, it was clear that Codd
originally rated Oracle as less relational than DB2 (according to his 12
rules),
Yes he did. Comparing Oracle V4 to DB2 on mainframes. Since then,
a LOT has changed.
and Oracle has gone way beyond the SQL standards (and often the
relational model) since that time.


Proof of this crap?
Nov 12 '05 #297
Serge Rielau <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> wrote in message news:<ca******* ***@hanover.tor olab.ibm.com>.. .
But now I'm curious where Noons allegation comes from?
Allegation? Let me see: I made a STATEMENT, which you now
turn into an "allegation "? Here it is again: Oracle is the database
that most matches the 12 rules. As in CURRENTLY. Care to dispute that?
Even if Oracle were to have scored higher in 198x. I hardly see this as
relevant.
I couldn't care less what Oracle scored then. What it scores
NOW is what matters. Much better than anything else.
Certianly better than SQL Server or any of that crap.
And there are another 12 rules to contend with, not just
Codd's. But I won't go there, for fear of confusing
the folks. Looks like serious, fact based argumentation is not
their forte...
I for one was a pimpled teen learning Z80-Assembler at the time and
considered buying the Amiga.
Pity. I had been in IT then for > 10 years. You'd have enjoyed
using DB2 then...
Certainly I don't want to be compared using those old photos ;-)


Old photos? You see, this is where you gotta start getting real.

Relational principles and rules/laws are NOT photos to be discarded
as soon as the fad goes. These are facts, theorems, mathematics.
They are timeless. They got no "version" to hide under. Just like
gravity hasn't changed since Newton. It's called a scientific
base, something most modern software sadly lacks.
Nov 12 '05 #298
"Paul Vernon" <pa*********@uk k.ibmm.comm> wrote in message news:<ca******* ****@gazette.al maden.ibm.com>. ..

Here is Chris Date's take on "different relational models" where the 12
rules are mentioned in passing.

http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/622839.htm
He's also got his own... For rdbms that claimto be "distribute d".

More interestingly than those 12 rules however, would be too see which
current DBMS most closely resembles say Data & Darwen's proposals for a
clean relational database system.


Care to provide a link to these?
Nov 12 '05 #299
http://www.hughdarwen.freeola.com/Th...Manifesto.web/
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #300

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