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database market share 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040526/tech_...etshare_1.html

Interesting to see that database sales for windows is more than
Unix.
Nov 12 '05
346 16701
Interesting. I would need time to digest that (which I don't) got some
stinging issues to deal with ;-)
But now I'm curious where Noons allegation comes from?
Even if Oracle were to have scored higher in 198x. I hardly see this as
relevant.
I for one was a pimpled teen learning Z80-Assembler at the time and
considered buying the Amiga.
Certainly I don't want to be compared using those old photos ;-)

Cheers
Serge
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #281
> > Oracle got fewer points than DB2 (and they would
probably get even fewer points from Codd today since Oracle seems to have moved away from relational in many respects).

"Mark Townsend" <ma***********@ comcast.net> wrote in message

news:40******** ******@comcast. net... I've seen you make this point before
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ews.uswest.net
I challenged you at the time, and can't remember if you ever came back
with an example - so exactly what is it in Oracle that you think has
moved away from the relational model ?

With Oracle (a little more than some other RDBMS's) programmers and users
who access the data want to know (or need to know depending on your point of
view) a little bit about the way the data is physically organized. This
includes things like rowids, certain kinds of indexes, etc. In a pure
relational model, the physical structure of the data is isolated from the
logical structure.

This movement away from a pure relational model is done for performance
reasons or to add features that some programmers may want. Nevertheless
these features (no matter how much people want them) often are in violation
of both Codd's rules and ANSI SQL standards.

Even if you don't take my word on this subject, it was clear that Codd
originally rated Oracle as less relational than DB2 (according to his 12
rules), and Oracle has gone way beyond the SQL standards (and often the
relational model) since that time.
Nov 12 '05 #282
"Serge Rielau" <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> wrote in message
news:ca******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
Interesting. I would need time to digest that (which I don't) got some
stinging issues to deal with ;-)
But now I'm curious where Noons allegation comes from?
Even if Oracle were to have scored higher in 198x. I hardly see this as
relevant.
I for one was a pimpled teen learning Z80-Assembler at the time and
considered buying the Amiga.
Certainly I don't want to be compared using those old photos ;-)

Cheers
Serge
--

Oracle did not score the highest. Ingess scored the highest, followed by
DB2, and then Oracle (there may have been others in between these). IDMS-R
scored the lowest (0).
Nov 12 '05 #283
Noons wrote:
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message
news:<108730824 2.153441@yasure >...

Buck ... your protest would be far more genuine if you just acknowledged
the fact that what Noon wrote is correct. These systems all started on
IBM mainframes. Ask me how I know. ;-)

You see: some of these "impartial observers" are sooo ready
to blame everything they don't know or have never seen
on the nearest target...

Completely forgetting of course that this is the Usenet, and
no amount of "shut up orders" from them will work.
Pity it ain't a moderated ng where crap can go on
unchallenged for as long as the "owners" want, eh?
Darn!

One very simple way of this thread stopping: stop posting
false and derogatory remarks about IBM's competitors.
There: simple and easy to understand, even for an IBM marketeer.


Why you post on informix newsgroup? We don't care, do want hear this.

--
Enor
Nov 12 '05 #284
Noons wrote:
bu*********@yah oo.com (Buck Nuggets) wrote in message
news:<66******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...
wi*******@yahoo .com.au (Noons) wrote in message
news:<73******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...

Will you get over it already?


No.
You're filling the newsgroups up with
crap - apparently out of some weird need to downplay IBM's market
share.


No.

Although an analysis of these trends is interesting - it certainly
isn't when subject to this kind of bullshit.


Bullshit will always be pointed out. Wherever it is coming from.


You have looked in mirror? All shit is coming from you and Daneil Morgan.

--
Enor
Nov 12 '05 #285
Universties should not be teaching packaged applications. They should be
teaching computer science. I am aware that Universities teach with DB2,
Oracle, and Windows.

Any University serious about computer science should be teaching with
open source tools (MySQL and Linux) that allow students to see the guts
of how these things actually work. Trying to teach relational database
with a focus on SQL is superficial. The same is true with using a
commercial ERP app.

The students learn much more if they learn relational theory the way
Codd taught it, and the packaged delivery of it (i.e. SQL in commercial
RDBMS's and packaged ERP apps) is something they pick up on their own
time or in summer jobs.

Daniel Morgan wrote:
Mark Townsend wrote:
Blair Adamache wrote:
the SAP we know today was Oracle-centric, and SAP has
invested quite a bit to change this.


Hmm - I guess this level of investment to non 'Oracle-centric'
solutions doesn't actually extend to training then - from the SAP web
site

BC535 - Database Administration - DB2 UDB (4.6) - This course is
currently not scheduled.
BC530 - Database Administration - DB2/390 (4.6) - This course is
currently not scheduled.
BC511 - Database Administration - Informix Online (4.6C) - This
course is currently not scheduled.

SAP, Seibel, Peoplesoft etc are not stupid, and are as market driven
as any other company. Their customers want their products on the
Oracle database, and no amount of postulating or hand waving from
other database vendors is going to change that. In fact, there is
significant evidence to show that Oracle's market share under these
packaged applications is actually growing (and indeed, that IBM's
share is declining).

There is zero demand for classes on any of these products at the college
and university level too so I am not surprised.


Nov 12 '05 #286
That seemed like a promising methodology, but I did some google searches
in which the names of frequent posters to this thread were ANDed with
colourful descriptors (wanker) and the results shook my confidence in
the august credentials of our debating club.

BTW, I think it's irrelevant whether and how much Oracle and DB2 have
departed from Codd's 12 rules. We have watched relational databases
displace hierachical and network databases - I think it's appropriate
that the relational model gets stretched to address the needs of the
object-oriented and XML worlds. FWIW, before his death, Codd was pushing
OLAP. Some of the world's most successful software (CICS, IMS) came from
tactical solutions developed by customers and field engineers.

Mark Townsend wrote:

It seems like you're bending the truth a little bit here.


I think my point still stands - the market tends to decide what database
gets chosen under SAP (or indeed, any packaged app vendor), and is not
swayed too much by any contra deals set up between one vendor and another.

Instead of availability of training, consider another metric for what
the market wants - a monster search for jobs

"oracle and sap" returns 1178 hits
"db2 and sap" returns 119 hits
"informix and sap" returns 35 hits
"sqlserver and sap" returns (a surprisingy) 7 hits

"oracle and peoplesoft" - 906 hits
"db2 and peoplesoft" - 143 hits
"informix and peoplesoft" - 75 hits
"sqlserver and peoplesoft" - 14 hits
"oracle and siebel" - 493 hits
"db2 and siebel" - 74 hits
"informix and siebel" - 13 hits
"sqlserver and siebel" - 6 hits

Does this mean that demand for Oracle expertise under a packaged app is
at least 6 times stronger than for the next closest database ?

And, deamnd aside, given there is a significant lack of training
available for anybody to cross skill, does this mean that this will stay
this way for the foreseeable future ?

All questions are purely rhetorical, of course.

But there's your marketshare numbers.


Nov 12 '05 #287
Mark Townsend wrote:
>

Oracle got fewer points than DB2 (and they would
probably get even fewer points from Codd today since Oracle seems to have
moved away from relational in many respects).


I've seen you make this point before
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ews.uswest.net
I challenged you at the time, and can't remember if you ever came back
with an example - so exactly what is it in Oracle that you think has
moved away from the relational model ?


This may well send a few blue suiters into apoplexy but I'll list just
a few:

user defined data types with inheritance and methods
object-relational views
object tables
array processing

Of which I am very thankful for all.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #288
"Paul Vernon" <pa*********@uk k.ibmm.comm> wrote in message news:<ca******* ****@gazette.al maden.ibm.com>. ..
"Serge Rielau" <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> wrote in message
news:ca******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
Noons wrote:
Given that it is the ONLY commercial RDBMS out there that follows
most of the relational db 12 rules, it probably deserves to be better
represented in education institutions. "Relational db 12 rules"? Care to elaborate?
At the risk of looking stupid: I draw a blank here.
I only know of normal forms, relational algebra and SQL :-(


Stuipid? No, but one can always know more.

Here is Chris Date's take on "different relational models" where the 12
rules are mentioned in passing.

http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/622839.htm


That's a very good article. Given the thrust and tone of the article,
I found it quite entertaining that the numerous links to his book in
the article give "We're sorry, the page you are looking for does not
exists.[SIC]"


More interestingly than those 12 rules however, would be too see which
current DBMS most closely resembles say Data & Darwen's proposals for a
clean relational database system.
I think putting down a database for having non-relational extensions
is silly. It's like saying a sports car isn't any good because it has
a quality radio. But rating which R attributes they support could be
very informative.

Regards
Paul Vernon
Business Intelligence, IBM Global Services


Business Intelligence... dare I say it? OK, I will. That's an
oxymoron.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://stuff.goduck.net/links/aussie_slang.html
Nov 12 '05 #289
Enor P <en****@hotmail .com> wrote in message news:<2j******* *****@uni-berlin.de>...

You have looked in mirror? All shit is coming from you and Daneil Morgan.


I don't look at mirrors to post on Usenet, unlike morons
like you.
Nov 12 '05 #290

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