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database market share 2003

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040526/tech_...etshare_1.html

Interesting to see that database sales for windows is more than
Unix.
Nov 12 '05
346 16707
Noons wrote:
Serge Rielau allegedly said,on my timestamp of 10/06/2004 1:02 AM:
I disagree. Everyone equates Oracle (no qualifier) with the Relational
database, yet the same name is used for Apps, and of course the mobile
database offering.

and quite wrongly, IMHO. Been one of my old grudges with Oracle,
as a matter of fact. It's as stupid as it gets and only confuses people.
Let's not go into what it does to the heads of competition's marketeers.
(the expression "major meltdown" springs to mind...)

The names were originally Oracle Financials for the apps and Oracle RDBMS
for the database. Which would equate to IBM "this" or IBM "that", given
that Oracle is the name of the company. NOT the name of the product.
Somewhere in the last 12 years it all became mixed up, with dire
consequences for intelligible conversation.

The rub, I think, is that brands are in companies hands. It has
flipsides, too. E.g. IBM is a "hardware company" DB2 is a "mainframe
product". As much as using DB2 (or Oracle) may help on one side, it
hurts on another.
It is a rather amusing twist that "UDB" is perceived as being DB2 for
LUW. It's a sign of popularity, IMHO. DB2 UDB for LUW has stepped out of
DB2 for z/OS shadow.
The lastest crime is "for Muliplatforms" which sounds like Milla
Jovovich in the "5. Element" and is largely ignored.

Et tu, Brutus? ;)

I tried. Gave up when I figured I'm standing alone and noone nows what
I'm talking about. Back to LUW, it's prettier anyway: DB2 for "love" :-)
We had similar problems with "SQL Procedural Langage" (SQL PL) which
isn't a language at all, really.. It's just SQL.

Yeah, that sounded always like a major twist of PL/SQL... :)
I never understood why not just call it what it is: ANSI SQL.
After all, IBM always called Cobol as ANSI Cobol...

We tried exactly that. But how do tell a customer that:
IBM Rep (eager): "DB2 UDB V7.1 for LUW now supports procedures written
in SQL"
Customer(oblivi ous): "You mean: "EXEC SQL SELECT c1 INTO var FROM T;"?
What's new about that?"
IBM Rep (excited): "No! No C or Java, just SQL!"
Customer: "But how to I do procedural logic ???"
"In SQL!"
"???*blink* "
Reason: SQL is "perceived" to deal with queries only.
So we settled for SQL "Procedural Language" statements to classify IF,
WHILE etc. and SQL PL is the obvious acronym to use.
Things need short memorisable names, the market demands it, and if
there is none chaos prevails.
It's an IBM blindspot.

Not just IBM...

Possibly, I never worked for another company.

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #171

"Serge Rielau" <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> schreef in bericht
news:ca******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
Noons wrote:
Serge Rielau allegedly said,on my timestamp of 10/06/2004 1:02 AM:
I disagree. Everyone equates Oracle (no qualifier) with the Relational
database, yet the same name is used for Apps, and of course the mobile
database offering.

and quite wrongly, IMHO. Been one of my old grudges with Oracle,
as a matter of fact. It's as stupid as it gets and only confuses people.
Let's not go into what it does to the heads of competition's marketeers.
(the expression "major meltdown" springs to mind...)

The names were originally Oracle Financials for the apps and Oracle RDBMS for the database. Which would equate to IBM "this" or IBM "that", given
that Oracle is the name of the company. NOT the name of the product.
Somewhere in the last 12 years it all became mixed up, with dire
consequences for intelligible conversation.

The rub, I think, is that brands are in companies hands. It has
flipsides, too. E.g. IBM is a "hardware company" DB2 is a "mainframe
product". As much as using DB2 (or Oracle) may help on one side, it
hurts on another.
It is a rather amusing twist that "UDB" is perceived as being DB2 for
LUW. It's a sign of popularity, IMHO. DB2 UDB for LUW has stepped out of
DB2 for z/OS shadow.


It's not that, I think. It's more because us MF-dinosaurs are tired of
having each and every product renamed all the time; OS/VS, MVS, MVS/XA,
MVS/ESA, OS/390, z/OS and on top of that DB2 on ..., UDB for ..., what's
next? Just give us a name and stick to it.
And the reason for which IBM is still perceived as a "hardware company" is
just the opposite: here they hang on to "Internatio nal Business Machines",
which doesn't sound like anything but hardware to me...
Maybe they should consider a gradual name-change for the company, something
like "Universal Business Machines" next year, "Universal Data Machines" the
year after, and finally "Universal/Ultimate Data Business"... :-)
After that, you 'truely' can say UDB is UDB is UDB, just like "the
competitor" ;-)
The lastest crime is "for Muliplatforms" which sounds like Milla
Jovovich in the "5. Element" and is largely ignored.

Et tu, Brutus? ;)

I tried. Gave up when I figured I'm standing alone and noone nows what
I'm talking about. Back to LUW, it's prettier anyway: DB2 for "love" :-)
We had similar problems with "SQL Procedural Langage" (SQL PL) which
isn't a language at all, really.. It's just SQL.

Yeah, that sounded always like a major twist of PL/SQL... :)
I never understood why not just call it what it is: ANSI SQL.
After all, IBM always called Cobol as ANSI Cobol...

We tried exactly that. But how do tell a customer that:
IBM Rep (eager): "DB2 UDB V7.1 for LUW now supports procedures written
in SQL"
Customer(oblivi ous): "You mean: "EXEC SQL SELECT c1 INTO var FROM T;"?
What's new about that?"
IBM Rep (excited): "No! No C or Java, just SQL!"
Customer: "But how to I do procedural logic ???"
"In SQL!"
"???*blink* "
Reason: SQL is "perceived" to deal with queries only.
So we settled for SQL "Procedural Language" statements to classify IF,
WHILE etc. and SQL PL is the obvious acronym to use.
Things need short memorisable names, the market demands it, and if
there is none chaos prevails.
It's an IBM blindspot.

Not just IBM...

Possibly, I never worked for another company.

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab

Nov 12 '05 #172
FWIW, I think we agree violently.

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #173
Serge Rielau wrote:
You mean this:
http://www-1.ibm.com/industries/fina...270311103.html

"* Multiple operating systems, running on IBM and non-IBM hardware
* A single code base to deliver a consistent set of functionality
from small single CPU systems, to SMP, to clusters of either"

That statement is correct.

One can pick on the fact that the author didn't fully qualify "DB2 UDB"
to "DB2 UDB for Linux Unix and Windows".'

Cheers
Serge


Lets take this one step at a time since you want to approach this like
an attorney ...

First ... you now acknowledge that IBM did, in fact, write the phrase
"single code base".

Second ... this issue is not the phrase itself, but rather how it is
to be interpreted.

Third ... it is not what was explicitly said ... but rather what was
not said upon which you are making the distinction.

Not every fine slip is malicious? How about every slippery
interpretation? Seems to me the ethical thing to do would be just
to acknowledge that IBM said it and it is pure marketing hyperbole
without basis in fact.

Then we can all get back to postings about things of import such as
Pink Floyd vs. Bach.

--
Daniel Morgan
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #174
Daniel Morgan wrote:

Then we can all get back to postings about things of import such as
Pink Floyd vs. Bach.


Couldn't we just do this anyway? Don't you all know the second law of
Usenet?

Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you
win, you are still retarded.

I'm waiting to see who's going to be the first to lose the argument
according to Godwin's Law (first law of Usenet).

Take it offline or meet for a macho-cafe-latte-decaf-muggachino in a
Starbucks somewhere, so you can sort out this vital issue once and for all.

Is c.d.i destined to become a desolate wasteland of pointless arguments and
whingers pining for the good old days?
Nov 12 '05 #175
Andrew Hamm wrote (in part):
Is c.d.i destined to become a desolate wasteland of pointless arguments and
whingers pining for the good old days?

I am not pining for IBM IMS/DB and CICS, or IBM IMS/DB and IMS/DC. Is
anyone? I did get stuck on a project where we were required to use IBM
IMS/DB and /DC and had to write the censored thing in IBM Basic Assembler
Language ("for efficiency reasons"). They had 70 programmers on that for
about 4 years before the project was scrapped. It may have been efficient,
but since it solved the wrong problem, it was no use to anyone. I argued
in favor of using a higher level language, but was shouted down. With a
higher level language, we could have realized we were solving the wrong
problem a lot sooner.

The good old days! Bah!

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 22:15:00 up 3 days, 7:40, 8 users, load average: 2.20, 2.19, 2.12

Nov 12 '05 #176
"Andrew Hamm" <ah***@mail.com > wrote in message
news:2i******** ****@uni-berlin.de...
Is c.d.i destined to become a desolate wasteland of pointless arguments and whingers pining for the good old days?

Did you answer your own question there ...?
Nov 12 '05 #177
Daniel,

Let me assert to you that all the code I have written in all my 7 years
for IBM DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix and Windows is single code-base and that
single codebase scales from small single CPU systems (like my laptop),
to SMP (like my development server), to clusters of either (like my
development server cluster of a dozen machines) and across multiple
operating systems (like Linux, Windows, Sun OS, HP, AIX) and hardware
platforms (e.g x (linux, Windows), p (Linux and AIX), z (Linux) and
i(Linux) Series, HP and Sun).
IBM DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix and Windows has a special layer called OSS
which deals with platform specific optimizations and APIs. Depending
whom you ask this isolated layer is between 5%-10% of the codebase.

Given that I touch IBM DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix and Windows code 340 days
a year for 7 years now I happen to know what I am talking about and you
do not.

If you believe that any given company is doing misleading or false
marketing then there are laws in many countries governing this which you
can invoke.

However, there is no doubt that any single phrase one picks out of any
document or source can and will be taken out of context.
It is a base fact in life that this happens and anyone who ever played
"Telephone" ("Stille Post" in my days) knows it's true.
It results in equally smart and objective people comming to widely
different conclusions. Nothing to be concerned about.
And, let's face it, opinions may vary.

I can take a lot of pokes about DB2 and more often than not there are
grains of truth in them (like wouldn't it be nice if all DB2 extenders
were supported on all platforms, as Mark T. likes to rub in ever so gently).

What upsets me about your posts in particluar is that you seemingly
purposely take things out of context and twist them around, you get
corrected over and over and over again and yet you refuse to admit erratas.
And that's where freedom of speech and healthy debate veers of into slander.

What I can't get is, how you don't seem to realize that you not only
loose reputation in non Oracle newsgroups (you may not care), but also
within your "home" Oracle group.
Any of your students, employers, customers and peers can google for
these posts. Don't you care?

Serge
--
Serge Rielau
DB2 SQL Compiler Development
IBM Toronto Lab
Nov 12 '05 #178

"Daniel Morgan" <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message
news:1086913318 .264053@yasure. ..

Then we can all get back to postings about things of import such as
Pink Floyd vs. Bach.
I'm a Mozart fan myself... ;-)

--
Daniel Morgan
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #179
Serge Rielau wrote:
Daniel,

Let me assert to you that all the code I have written in all my 7 years
for IBM DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix and Windows is single code-base and that
single codebase scales from small single CPU systems (like my laptop),
to SMP (like my development server), to clusters of either (like my
development server cluster of a dozen machines) and across multiple
operating systems (like Linux, Windows, Sun OS, HP, AIX) and hardware
platforms (e.g x (linux, Windows), p (Linux and AIX), z (Linux) and
i(Linux) Series, HP and Sun).
IBM DB2 UDB for Linux, Unix and Windows has a special layer called OSS
which deals with platform specific optimizations and APIs. Depending
whom you ask this isolated layer is between 5%-10% of the codebase.

Serge


And please let me asset to you that code I have written in my 35+ years,
many of which were IBM DB2 on mainframes ... that code could not be
moved, without modification, to a Windows or other platform. Even
basic things like how many characters long is the name of a table
would/could change.

Is that no longer true?

I find it hard to believe that anyone would assert that DB2 on OS/390
where it is shared-everything can be put onto a different operating
system where the DB2 architecture is shared-nothing and think it will
run as is. Please tell me if I am incorrect.

You see the one nice thing about some of DB2's competitors is that
the code written is 100% compatible across operating systems ... not
even requiring a recompilation.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #180

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

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