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yipeee!


Just recieved a 'thought experiment' assignment from my boss.
Does it make sense, and how would it be accomplised, to move
the databases from the mainframe (small VSE 390?) to AIX?
I mentioned that we should then look at possible programs from
IBM to convert the mainframe database (VSAM?) files into DB2/AIX,
or Oracle databases. And that I thought Oracle had some facility
such that we could cluster and load-balance two+ nodes running
something like Parallel Oracle so that should a node need booting
or modifying off-line the application is still running (at
reduced capacity) for the users.

Thoughts?

Mike
Nov 12 '05
95 5380
Mark Townsend wrote:
I understand perfectly. I am not confused. I know exactly what each
product is capable off, down to the nth degree. It's my job to know, and
I'm very,very good at my job.
Daniel Morgan wrote:
Perhaps you need to come take the class I teach on RAC.


Benchmarks on OLTP and DSS are great - but is TPC working on a benchmark
that measures tpmC? (X of Conceitful transactions in a newsgroup thread)?

Nov 12 '05 #71
> >. DB2 with three digit number of nodes runs since years at
an american insurance company.

You and I both know that the insurance company's data is parititioned by
branch, that each node in question manages the data and the user access
for a given (set of) branch(s) only, and that there is very little
requirements in this particular app for the data from one branch to be
accessed by another branch. So yes, a great example of 'consolidated
federation'. And if thats what the OP wants to do, then they should
definately look at UDB (although SQLServer would be a little cheaper for
this type of architecture)

DB2 for LUW and Teradata use hash partitioning, not range partiitoning, so
they don't partition by branch. I don't know why you think insurance
companies access decesion support data by branch anyway, becasue that is not
true. Decsion support queries typcially look at all the data. OLTP systems
may look at data by branch.
Nov 12 '05 #72
Mike want to consider MQSeries instead of CICS on AIX.

Mark A wrote:
"Mark Townsend" <ma***********@ comcast.net> wrote in message
<snip>
Exactly. Note that Oracle does support COBOL ESQL, and both CIC's and
DRDA access via Gateways.


I think you mean CICS. I know that Oracle supports CICS on OS/390, but does
it support CICS and COBOL on RS/6000 or other UNIX box that CICS may run on?

The originator of this thread (Mike) is thinking of picking up the entire
OS/390 application and running it on UNIX, probably converting the VSAM to
an RDMS (at least as a first step), but keeping the COBOL and CICS. There is
no DRDA access via a Gateway in such an architecture.

BTW, I may be getting a little ornery at Daniel's trolling on this forum,
but I can assure you that I am not confused.


Nov 12 '05 #73
"Blair Adamache" <ba*******@2muc hspam.yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:c0******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
Mike want to consider MQSeries instead of CICS on AIX.

Is that a suggestion, or what Mike said?

I think the issue is that all the application screens are written in CICS
and they initially may want to move the application to RS/6000 without a
major rewrite (except maybe change VSAM to DB2). MQSeries handles messages,
but not user interface.
Nov 12 '05 #74
I think you will find that the insurance company that Serge is putting
forward is put forward as a clustered OLTP reference, not as clustered
DSS reference.

Mark A wrote:
. DB2 with three digit number of nodes runs since years at
an american insurance company.

You and I both know that the insurance company's data is parititioned by
branch, that each node in question manages the data and the user access
for a given (set of) branch(s) only, and that there is very little
requirement s in this particular app for the data from one branch to be
accessed by another branch. So yes, a great example of 'consolidated
federation' . And if thats what the OP wants to do, then they should
definately look at UDB (although SQLServer would be a little cheaper for
this type of architecture)

DB2 for LUW and Teradata use hash partitioning, not range partiitoning, so
they don't partition by branch. I don't know why you think insurance
companies access decesion support data by branch anyway, becasue that is not
true. Decsion support queries typcially look at all the data. OLTP systems
may look at data by branch.

Nov 12 '05 #75
bu*********@yah oo.com (Buck Nuggets) wrote in message news:<66******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...

However - one more thing: I find that my database choices usually
hinge more on the strategic direction of the company - rather than on
the specific needs of the application. If you go
application-by-application you'll end up with a half-dozen different
databases, and the skillset problem that results is typically more
challenging than the minor technical differences between commercial
databases.


I don't see this. Even if a company has a strategic initiative to go
to a particular database, mergers, aquisitions, and specific
application requirements still mean heterogeneity. There may be some
pure MS companies around, but I wouldn't know about them (and I don't
think MS is one of them, and of course IBM may well be its own world).

The skillset problem is challenging, but a red herring since it is
probably not a good idea as a strategic plan, except maybe in certain
small companies. Even governments that specified Oracle figured that
out. Enterprise software salespeople sell gateways, if they have to.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
"I don't practice Santeria." - some pop song.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/u...s_1c5cuba.html
Nov 12 '05 #76
pa*********@usa .net (Dusan Bolek) wrote in message news:<1e******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:<107594886 8.103447@yasure >...
That's true, but for me real performance measurement should be done
while everything is working. According to my experiences If you have
proper enteprise environment outages are almost NULL and during short
period, when you are dealing with some problem, lower performance is
usually acceptable by business users.
On the other hand I apriori distrust *any* benchmarks, because for me
they're just marketing (read lies).


I guess there's no such thing as a proper enterprise environment. One
of my favorite personal war stories is the electrician who reached in
and turned off the UPS for Superdome, numerous HP's, etc.

Benchmarks are ok since they state their parameters. We all know how
to tell when a marketing person is lying...

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/u...b6madcatz.html
Nov 12 '05 #77
Joel Garry wrote:
There may be some
pure MS companies around, but I wouldn't know about them (and I don't
think MS is one of them, ....


MS isn't one of them. MS runs SAP for their financial system. And it
sure isn't on SQL Server.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #78
Blair Adamache wrote:
Mark Townsend wrote:
Sigh.

Check out the #1 result at
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_perf_results.asp

Double sigh -

Mark B. Townsend (Ma***********@ oracle.com) also wrote:
Subject: Re: What's the fastest database on IBM's fastest computer?

Newsgroups: comp.databases. ibm-db2
Date: 2001-06-22 14:14:01 PST
...
I would contend that TPC-C on a un-clustered SMP environment is a better
indication of database and hardware capabilities than a clustered
result. The real challenge with clusters is not to run larger and faster
TPC-C's, but instead to make them work in typical OLTP environments -
where data cannot be easily partitioned.


Agreed. No conusion here. Benchmarks are useful exercises in
testing-to-scale, but you also need real world workloads as well. Hence
the links to the references as well ( which strangely didn't survive the
redaction ).

Nov 12 '05 #79
On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 10:24:51 -0700, "Mark A" <ma@switchboard .net>
wrote:

You may not think that a true parallel query environment (what you call
share nothing) is important, but if you look at the client list of Teradata
and IBM who have implemented that technology, it would be obvious that you
are wrong.


Apparently you are unaware of Oracle Parallel Execution feature.
It is recommended you do your homework prior to starting a flame to
promote a competitor product.
--
Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA
Nov 12 '05 #80

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