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yipeee!


Just recieved a 'thought experiment' assignment from my boss.
Does it make sense, and how would it be accomplised, to move
the databases from the mainframe (small VSE 390?) to AIX?
I mentioned that we should then look at possible programs from
IBM to convert the mainframe database (VSAM?) files into DB2/AIX,
or Oracle databases. And that I thought Oracle had some facility
such that we could cluster and load-balance two+ nodes running
something like Parallel Oracle so that should a node need booting
or modifying off-line the application is still running (at
reduced capacity) for the users.

Thoughts?

Mike
Nov 12 '05
95 5380
MQSeries is often recommended instead of CICS on Unix.

Bernard Dhooghe wrote:
I'm very favorable biased towards DB2 and AIX (based on support
experience, you can have trust) but I would not choose to migrate to
CICS on AIX.

DCE fades away, I can't believe CICS on AIX is -anymore?- a strategic
product (for IBM).

If leaving VSE, I would not reincarnate it on AIX with CICS, even in
an intermediate step.

I also believe log-shipping is a very reliable way to have a
replication side; a database can reside multiple times on a system
based on the redirected restore principle, so the recovery site can
even be a development system also.

In UDB 8.1 LUW the shadow database maintained with log-shipping
remains in roll-forward pending state. Using a snapshot capability of
a storage engine, a copy of the shadow can be validated.

Bernard Dhooghe
Mike <mi***@mikee.at h.cx> wrote in message news:<10******* ******@corp.sup ernews.com>...
In article <66************ **************@ posting.google. com>, Buck Nuggets wrote:
Mike <mi***@mikee.at h.cx> wrote in message news:<10******* ******@corp.sup ernews.com>...

Just recieved a 'thought experiment' assignment from my boss.
Does it make sense, and how would it be accomplised, to move
the databases from the mainframe (small VSE 390?) to AIX?
I mentioned that we should then look at possible programs from
IBM to convert the mainframe database (VSAM?) files into DB2/AIX,
or Oracle databases. And that I thought Oracle had some facility
such that we could cluster and load-balance two+ nodes running
something like Parallel Oracle so that should a node need booting
or modifying off-line the application is still running (at
reduced capacity) for the users.

Is HA a real requirement, or just a nice-to-have? Because if you can
live with something like 99.9% availability then perhaps log-shipping
would suffice and you might be able to set up a db2 udb prototype in a
single afternoon. If it's one of those rare applications that really
needs 99.999% well then you've got some real work ahead - regardless
of the product chosen.

Oracle has more functionality and capability here but it's more
expensive, more complex/error-prone to use, and while i'm not sure of
RAC, OPS was a manageability nightmare. Still, for many situations it
is great.

However - one more thing: I find that my database choices usually
hinge more on the strategic direction of the company - rather than on
the specific needs of the application. If you go
applicatio n-by-application you'll end up with a half-dozen different
databases, and the skillset problem that results is typically more
challengin g than the minor technical differences between commercial
databases.


The HA is a must. That's why if I could get it to work with either
oracle or db2 in this parallel fashion then I have built in HA
without having to mess with IBM's HACMP on AIX.

Agreed on the strategic direction.

Turns out this would probably be a phased project. First possibly
move the mainframe stuff to CICS on AIX. Then migrate the VSAM
stuff outside of CICS into DB2 as a phase 2. Then re-write the CICS
application s to run CICS native as a phase 3+.


Nov 12 '05 #91
"Blair Adamache" <ba*******@2muc hspam.yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:c0******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
MQSeries is often recommended instead of CICS on Unix.

I think people are missing the point. The existing mainframe application is
written in CICS (with a CICS 3270 user interface). MQSeries does not handle
a user interface, and even if it did, they don't want to re-write the
application right away.

Actually, MQSeries is a messaging system built on CICS technology in
Hursley. But there is not much use for a new product with a 3270 interface.
Nov 12 '05 #92

Which reminds me

An American tourist (but could be Canadian) walks into a small pub in
small village in England and sits at the bar. While he's nursing his
pint, he's watching the other local patrons, and notices that every now
and then one of them yells out a number - at which stage, everybody else
in the pub bursts into laughter and slaps him/her on the back.

After while, he asks the landlord what is going on.

'Well', says the landlord, "this lot have been drinking here together
for so long, that we all now know each others jokes. So to save time, we
gave them all a number. Then if somebody thinks of a joke, they just
yell out the number, everybody remembers the joke, and we have a good laugh"

"Great" says the American, "can I give it a try ?"

"Sure" says the landlord.

So the American approaches the patrons, and nervously waits for a lull
in the conversation. When he senses he has the rooms attention, he yells
"Thirteen".

Everybody just ignores him and goes back to their conversation.

Crestfallen, the American goes back to the landlord.
"What happened ?" says the American

"It's the way that you tell them", says the landlord.

Blair Adamache wrote:
a frayed knot = afraid not

old joke:

"There were 3 strings and they wanted to go to a restaraunt for supper.
The first string went in and the waiter looked at him and said "Are you
a string?" and the string said "yes" so the waiter said "I'm sorry. We
don't serve strings." The second string came in and the waiter looked at
him and said "Are you a string?" and the string said "yes" so the waiter
said "I'm sorry. We don't serve strings." Then the third string tied
himself in a knot and frayed the ends. He walked into the restaraunt and
the waiter looked him up and down and said "Are you a string?" and the
string said "No I'm a frayed knot (afaid not)."

Anton Versteeg wrote:
You are a frayed what? :)

Mark Townsend wrote:
Serge Rielau wrote:

Well, AFAIK amazon.com is running Teradata in their warehouse.


I'm a frayed knot - see
http://otn.oracle.com/products/bi/db..._exp_10ir1.pdf


Nov 12 '05 #93
There are tools/products to convert the existing CICS 3270 interface
into a more modern web based interface,
without touching the existing CICS applications. Perhaps something to
consider?

Mark A wrote:
"Blair Adamache" <ba*******@2muc hspam.yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:c0******* ***@hanover.tor olab.ibm.com...

MQSeries is often recommended instead of CICS on Unix.

I think people are missing the point. The existing mainframe application is
written in CICS (with a CICS 3270 user interface). MQSeries does not handle
a user interface, and even if it did, they don't want to re-write the
application right away.

Actually, MQSeries is a messaging system built on CICS technology in
Hursley. But there is not much use for a new product with a 3270 interface.


--
Anton Versteeg
IBM Certified DB2 Specialist
IBM Netherlands
Nov 12 '05 #94
Ian
Daniel Morgan wrote:
Mark A wrote:
I was responding to someone who said that share nothing is not
important and
that share everything scales just as well.

I didn't say as well ... I said better. As you scale shared nothing the
time between failures decreases ... you are more likely to have a
failure and thus zero performance. With shared everything the time
between failures increases ... you are less likely to have a failure
that brings down the system.

That some people don't seem to concern themselves with 7x24x365 uptime
may explain why their product isn't used by most major web sites. Alfred
E. Neuman said "What me worry" and apparently that mantra has now
changed to "Well it was running really really fast when it was up."


DB2 (including EEE) can be set up to do failover, no problem. If a
node fails, another node simply takes over the work of the missing
node.

This may result in degraded performance, depending on how the HA is
configured.

Of course, the same (performance will decrease) can be said of RAC
if one of the nodes in its cluster fails.


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Nov 12 '05 #95
jo********@home .com (Joel Garry) wrote in message news:<91******* *************** ****@posting.go ogle.com>...
I guess there's no such thing as a proper enterprise environment. One
of my favorite personal war stories is the electrician who reached in
and turned off the UPS for Superdome, numerous HP's, etc.
I have also seen something similar. However, these are exceptions,
that happens maybe once in three years or something like that.
99.99(9)% of time everything is running smoothly, so benchmarking
state that occurs in 0.0(0)1% of time is not probably very
justificated.
Benchmarks are ok since they state their parameters. We all know how
to tell when a marketing person is lying...


The first thing that I want to know when I see some new benchmark is
who paid for it. In complex IT environment there is a lot of variables
that can be changed according to needs of tested product. You can see
a lot of benchmarks that favours some subset of operations because the
benchmarked product is better while dealing with them than its
competitors. Microsoft is quite a good example of this.
If we're talking about TPCs then my biggest problem with them is that
they do not check if the final solution is feasible from production
point of view (Microsoft's mega clusters) or is just support and
operating nightmare.
Also could be quite funny if you take a numbers from any
price/performance benchmark and go to the nearest vendor and want used
HW for the price that was used for calculation of price/performance
measurement. :-)

--
Dusan Bolek
Nov 12 '05 #96

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