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Peoplesoft on Federated UDB?

Anyone using Peoplesoft on a Federated UDB
(shared nothing)Environ ment on Open System Platforms?
Preferably AIX, but any war stories would be good.

TEA
EB-C
Nov 12 '05
96 6261
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:<107510091 5.338329@yasure >...
Far be it from me to defend Oracle Consulting as I have come in after
them a few times myself: Enough said. But without a thorough knowledge
of what that person found when they walked in the door it is hard to say.


Tsk, tsk Daniel. I think you *should* defend them. Otherwise you may
find you get chopped off the 11e beta test programme.
DG
Nov 12 '05 #71
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> writes:
The only two commecial RDBMS products with shared nothing architecture
are DB2 on mainframes (not other platforms) and Oracle on all platforms.


Actually, neither of those are shared-nothing architectures, but DB2 EEE
is. The original shared-nothing parallel database architecture is the
GAMMA research prototype developed by David DeWitt at U of
Wisconsin-Madison. Informix XPS and IBM DB2 UDB EEE (on linux, windoze, and
unix) are implementations of the same architecture. This architecture is
not only the underlying platform, but also a particular mapping of relations
to the hardware. The GAMMA paper and other papers on parallel database
machines can be found in the March 1990 issue of IEEE Transactions on
Knowlege and Data Engineering.

A shared-nothing platform is a collection of nodes, each of which is its
own CPU(s), disk(s), memory, buses. The nodes are connected by a
high-speed network. Each node has the ability to store and query relations.
A logical relation is horizontally declustered across the nodes. This means
that a fragment of the relation is stored on each node. Each fragment has
the same schema-- the schema of the relation. Each fragment stores a subset
of the tuples of the logical relation, and the subsets are disjoint. The
original logical relation is the union of all the fragments (1 per node).
Typically the partition of the relation into subsets is done either by
hashing on the key value (each has bucket is assigned to a node) or by
a range partition (each range is assigned to a node) or round-robin (if
there n nodes, the kth tuple inserted is inserted into node k mod n).

When a query is submitted, queries typically are generated to run at all of
the nodes in parallel. For instance, consider a logical relation R that
is declustered horizontally into 8 subsets, R0, R1, ..., R7, with Ri stored
node 8. The query "select * from R" is implemented by running
"select * from Ri" at node i, and all 8 queries can run in parallel,
with the results pipelined into a union or merge operator that produces
the result (in parallel with the continued running of the queries because
of pipelining).

Joins typically are done via hash joins with the fragments being pairwise
joined in parallel, but also each join of a pair of fragments can be
futher paralellized by hashing and parallel joining of hash buckets.

This shared-nothing scheme has been shown to achieve linear scalability,
ie you can double the workload and maintain the same response time by
doubling the number of nodes. It also exhibits linear speedup-- you cacut
the response time in half by doubling the number of nodes with workload
held fixed. This linear scalability can certainly be achieved up to 64
nodes, and should be pushing 128 nodes with optimizations of system
overhead.

Note that if you have shared memory, you can use it to implement fast
communication channels (A sends a message to B by writing it to a buffer
that B can read) as long as logically you stick to the shared-nothing
architecture.

The Oracle cluster architecture is advantageous for fault-tolerance, but
has never been shown to achieve linear scalability. It is a fundamentally
different architecture and is not a traditional shared-nothing parallel
database machine.

Hope that helps to clarify a little bit.

Joseph
Nov 12 '05 #72
Database Guy wrote:
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:<107510091 5.338329@yasure >...

Far be it from me to defend Oracle Consulting as I have come in after
them a few times myself: Enough said. But without a thorough knowledge
of what that person found when they walked in the door it is hard to say.

Tsk, tsk Daniel. I think you *should* defend them. Otherwise you may
find you get chopped off the 11e beta test programme.
DG


Some like to bungee jump. Some like to parachute jump. Me? I prefer
to talk openly about billion dollar software companies. Guess we all
have our own way to "live dangerously." ;-)

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #73
Joseph wrote:
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> writes:

The only two commecial RDBMS products with shared nothing architecture
are DB2 on mainframes (not other platforms) and Oracle on all platforms.

Actually, neither of those are shared-nothing architectures, but DB2 EEE
is.


I caught that mistake, apologized, and corrected it one or two days
ago earlier in the thread ... but thank you.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #74
"Joseph" <jo****@aracnet .com> wrote in message
news:bv******** *@enews2.newsgu y.com...
Actually, neither of those are shared-nothing architectures, but DB2 EEE
is. The original shared-nothing parallel database architecture is the
GAMMA research prototype developed by David DeWitt at U of
Wisconsin-Madison. Informix XPS and IBM DB2 UDB EEE (on linux, windoze, and unix) are implementations of the same architecture. This architecture is
not only the underlying platform, but also a particular mapping of relations to the hardware. The GAMMA paper and other papers on parallel database
machines can be found in the March 1990 issue of IEEE Transactions on
Knowlege and Data Engineering.

<snip>
Joseph


I don't really know about the research prototype developed by David DeWitt
at U of Wisconsin-Madison, but you seemed to have left out Teradata which
was the first company to implement a real world relational database product
with share nothing architecture. This happened long before DB2 PE (parallel
edition) or Informix XPS. And it happened before 1990.

DB2 parallel database implementation has always been (and still is)
"capable" of share nothing, ever since the first release of DB2 Parallel
Edition. In fact it was required at that time, because AIX did not support
SMP at that time.

But with the advent of good SMP processing, not many people implement a
"pure" share nothing architecture anymore, unless they have really huge
scalability requirements. It is usually implemented as a "hybrid" of
multiple nodes, with multiple partitions per node. But with DB2 it's up to
the DBA/customer as to how pure of a share nothing architecture that is
implemented.
Nov 12 '05 #75
"Mark A" <ma@switchboard .net> writes:
"Serge Rielau" <sr*****@ca.e ye-be-em.com> wrote in message
news:bv******** **@hanover.toro lab.ibm.com...
OK, come up with a better word then.
It seems the majority (when sover at least) understands shared nothing
in the context of DBMS to relate to the view of the DBMS and not to the
hardware view.
Could we just agree on the fact that the meaning of shared nothing in
thsi context might have changed a bit over the last 20 years for all the
valid reasons you brought up?

Cheers
Serge

IMO no, because it is important to distinguish having 2 partitions per node,
from having 4 partitions or 6 partitions per node, even when there are
multiple nodes. Saying that both are "shared nothing" is incorrect IMO, and
blurs the distinction between them, even though they should scale a little
differently.


I'm not sure how, given your defination, you'd characterize the
implementation of DB2 that runs on the Parallel Sysplex hardware,
using the coupling facility, on the zSeries processors.

--
#include <disclaimer.std > /* I don't speak for IBM ... */
/* Heck, I don't even speak for myself */
/* Don't believe me ? Ask my wife :-) */
Richard D. Latham la*****@us.ibm. com
Nov 12 '05 #76
Database Guy wrote:
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message news:<107510091 5.338329@yasure >...

Far be it from me to defend Oracle Consulting as I have come in after
them a few times myself: Enough said. But without a thorough knowledge
of what that person found when they walked in the door it is hard to say.

Tsk, tsk Daniel. I think you *should* defend them. Otherwise you may
find you get chopped off the 11e beta test programme.
DG

Too late. Daniel who ? :-)

Nov 12 '05 #77
Serge Rielau wrote:
Ah.. yes. That is the beauty of marketing.
When a vendor publishes a benhcmark it gives braggin rights.
From full page adds to analysts attention.
The whole idea is to push a product.
Now if that product does not ship within the timeframe indicated then
the result must be withdrawn.
However all the marketing cannot be undone.
One can slip in the odd case, but if it happens regularly then first the
reputation for the vendor goes, and then the one of the benchmark
because it's benchmarking prototypes rather than products.

Cheers
Serge


Well, it's not yet the 30th :-)

And there are plenty of other benchmarks for braggin rights - see
http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc...resulttype=all
Nov 12 '05 #78
Mark Townsend wrote:
Database Guy wrote:
Daniel Morgan <da******@x.was hington.edu> wrote in message
news:<107510091 5.338329@yasure >...

Far be it from me to defend Oracle Consulting as I have come in after
them a few times myself: Enough said. But without a thorough
knowledge of what that person found when they walked in the door it
is hard to say.


Tsk, tsk Daniel. I think you *should* defend them. Otherwise you may
find you get chopped off the 11e beta test programme.
DG


Too late. Daniel who ? :-)


Seems to think I should defend Oracle Consulting. Can't imagine why.
Apparently part of some ... 'if you work with a product you must be
baptized to its faith' ... kind of thinking: Foreign to me.

--
Daniel Morgan
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...ad/oad_crs.asp
http://www.outreach.washington.edu/e...oa/aoa_crs.asp
da******@x.wash ington.edu
(replace 'x' with a 'u' to reply)

Nov 12 '05 #79
Mark Townsend <ma***********@ comcast.net> wrote in message news:<40******* *******@comcast .net>...
For example, Oracle requires more DBA
support than DB2, an important consideration when choosing.


Prove it. And don't quote me a lot of fly by night supposed analysts
whose main income seems to come from talking at DB2 user conferences.


Go get 'em Mark! The oracle install is a piece of cake, easiest
install of any database I've ever worked with. Some people talk about
how easy sql server, mysql, or postgresql are to install - but those
people simply don't have enough training in oracle.

It's almost always very easy in windows, but to be honest it's
sometimes a little tougher in other operating systems. While
installing 9i on solaris I discovered that the 350 page installation
manaual was so wrong that it actually set me way back - had to spend
two days googling for answers in various groups to the java problems.
Probably sabotaged by db2ers. And about six months ago I had to do a
reinstall on linux redhat 7.3 - unfortunately there was a set of odd
bugs. Luckily these were documented on metalink, unfortunately I only
had an OEM license - and so no access to metalink. Man, that was a
painful couple of days. Then I've also had some odd performance
strangeness on AIX as well, that required quite a few calls and
research.

Still, I stand by my point - oracle is a breeze to install, all those
problems of mine could have been easily resolved by additional
training. Right now I'm lobbying for a couple of weeks of training
each year to keep up on these issues so that I won't make the product
look bad. Wish me luck!

Buck
Nov 12 '05 #80

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