Java or C++?

[s0suk3]

I've been programming Python for a couple of years now. Now I'm
looking to move on to either C++ or Java, but I'm not sure which.

Which one do you think will be a better transition for a Python
programmer? Which one will educate me the best?

[Matthias Buelow]

Razii wrote:

Why didn't you
complain about pro-c++ propaganda posted in the thread by several
people?

Because it's a C++ newsgroup? Just a wild guess.

[Victor Bazarov]

Razii wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:36:42 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"
<v.********@comAcast.netwrote:

>It would probably be better for you to refrain from telling people
what to do.

It would be far better if you learn to use filters. The thread was no
started by me, and even though I tried to ignore the thread, just a
random click on a post, and I saw my name mentioned. As usual, Kanze
was posting his typical anti-Java stuff as he is well known for this,
and has been doing for years. I responded to his post. Why didn't you
complain about pro-c++ propaganda posted in the thread by several
people? In any case, it's pretty clear from the subject what the
thread is about. What exactly are you whining about? Right click on
the thread and click on ignore.

Again, don't tell people where to right-click or what to ignore and not
to ignore. I'll kill-file you as soon as I finish this reply, don't
worry.

Now, if you read the FAQ carefully, language comparisons are off-topic
since they serve no purpose. It does not matter whether it was you who
started this thread or not, if your post is off-topic, your post will
be flagged as such, and you shouldn't whine about it. Get it?

V
--
Please remove capital 'A's when replying by e-mail
I do not respond to top-posted replies, please don't ask

[Lionel B]

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:11:38 -0500, Razii wrote:

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:36:42 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"
<v.********@comAcast.netwrote:

>>It would probably be better for you to refrain from telling people what
to do.

It would be far better if you learn to use filters. The thread was no
started by me, and even though I tried to ignore the thread, just a
random click on a post, and I saw my name mentioned. As usual, Kanze was
posting his typical anti-Java stuff as he is well known for this, and
has been doing for years. I responded to his post. Why didn't you
complain about pro-c++ propaganda posted in the thread by several
people? In any case, it's pretty clear from the subject what the thread
is about. What exactly are you whining about? Right click on the thread
and click on ignore.

Eejit.

<plonk>

--
Lionel B

[Razii]

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:41:45 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"
<v.********@comAcast.netwrote:

>Now, if you read the FAQ carefully...language comparisons are
off-topic since they serve no purpose.

They do serve a purpose. That is, they are interesting and fun. You
either can ignore a thread or move to the moderated newsgroup. If you
read the USENET FAQ carefully, you would know that you don't whine
aimlessly. It serves no purpose. The person who wrote the FAQ for this
group doesn't own this group anymore than I or you do.

[James Kanze]

On Apr 25, 6:21 pm, Razii <[e-mail]:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:41:45 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"

<[e-mail]:

Now, if you read the FAQ carefully...language comparisons are
off-topic since they serve no purpose.

They do serve a purpose. That is, they are interesting and fun.

In other words, you're a troll.

--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:ja*********@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, [phone]

[Default User]

James Kanze wrote:

On Apr 25, 6:21 pm, Razii <[e-mail]:

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:41:45 -0400, "Victor Bazarov"

<[e-mail]:

Now, if you read the FAQ carefully...language comparisons are
off-topic since they serve no purpose.

They do serve a purpose. That is, they are interesting and fun.

In other words, you're a troll.

Well, yeah.


Brian

[coal]

On Apr 20, 9:18*pm, Lambda <[e-mail]:

On Apr 19, 10:32 pm, [e-mail] wrote:

Well, I mean "better" and "best" in a very general sense, whichever
sense you want to interpret it on. More useful, more fun, more
educational, etc; or, as you already suggested, easier. Thanks.

I recommend learn C++ and Java all.

I disagree. I recommend picking one and learning it. They are
both big languages and it will be easier to keep your sanity if
you focus on one. I'd further recommend picking C++. When I
started working on an alternative to C++ serialization libraries,
I worked on supporting basic types and standard containers.
It wasn't until later that I started thinking about supporting user
defined types. I didn't think through what support for
user defined types would involve and just got to work on the basics.
Eventually when we added support for udts we realized
that we didn't want to repeat the code over and over every time
an object gets used as part of a message. So we needed to write/
generate methods that would be part of the class. Users
of the software simply add prototypes to their classes and the
implementation of those methods is written in a separate file. That
works fine in C++. We briefly considered adding support
for Java to our services, but we realized that Java's rule requiring a
class to be completed in the file it is started
would cause us headaches. We didn't want to attempt to add
computer-generated code to a file that has hand-written code
in it. What if we accidentally alter some hand-written code?
Plus it is simpler conceptually if you know everything in a
file is hand-written. Or it is all computer-generated. I'm
thankful to G-d for keeping us from investing a lot of time
in a language that has a rule like that. In my opinion the
rule is there as an attempt to force people who would
otherwise be able to compete with Sun to have to negotiate
with Sun. I'm happy to have stuck with C++ and think in the
long run it is the better choice.

Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
www.webEbenezer.net

"Where the Spirit of the L-rd is, there is liberty."
2 Cor. 3:17

[Razii]

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:19:09 -0700 (PDT), James Kanze
<ja*********@gmail.comwrote:

>In other words, you're a troll.

If that is your definition of troll.

[Atharvan :-)]

hi,

I often saw Razii in newsgroups dealing with Java and C++.
And I like the benchmarks of C++ and Java he producing in favour of
Java.

Let me introduce myself. I am a B.Sc (Computer Science) student.
And of course I am not a professional to give advice.
But I want to suggest Razii to read the following link at least once
before posting such things.
Java and C++ and entirely different. (and Many of Java's foundation is
written using C.)
(nb: I am not against Java. I am started using C++ and now studying
Java.)

These are all links that you all may be interested. Have a look
please.
And Razii if you please create a profile I can know more about you :-)

1) Is Java the language you would have designed if you didn't have to
be compatible with C?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#Java
2) Would you compare C++ to "some language"?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#compare
3) Others do compare their languages to C++; doesn't that annoy you?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_f...ers-do-compare
4) How can a legacy language like C++ compete with modern, advanced
languages?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#advanced
5) Why is C++ so BIG?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#big
6)Is the number of C++ users still doubling every year?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_f...r-of-C++-users
7)C++ Applications
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html
8) The Programming Languages Beacon
http://www.lextrait.com/vincent/implementations.html
9) Bjarne Stroustrup's FAQ
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html

with love,
Arun.K.R

[
Atharvan!!!
{333}
GPG Key :928C3AF1
ChintaaDaara.blogspot.com
ChintaaDaara.blog.co.in
]

{MAN can be DESTROYED, but cannot be DEFEATED. }

[Daniel de Kok]

s0****@gmail.com wrote:

I've been programming Python for a couple of years now. Now I'm
looking to move on to either C++ or Java, but I'm not sure which.

Which one do you think will be a better transition for a Python
programmer? Which one will educate me the best?

Java will probably be the easiest transition, but I think C++ will
educate you better. It's a fairly complex language that gives you much
more control than Java. More control requires more responsibility.

As an additional bonus, you can optimize parts of your Python
applications where necessary by rewriting them in C++, and creating
bindings with Boost.Python.

Take care,
Daniel

[Razii]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 06:48:01 -0700 (PDT), "Atharvan :-)"
<co*****@gmail.comwrote:

>Let me introduce myself. I am a B.Sc (Computer Science) student.

I am not.

>And of course I am not a professional to give advice.

Nor am I.

>And I like the benchmarks of C++ and Java he producing in favour of
Java.

I produced no such benchmark. Generally, C++ is slightly faster
overall. However, some people often claim that Java is way too slow
and C++ way too fast. You would think that C/C++ must be at least 5 to
10 times faster, if not 50 to 100 times faster. That what makes it
fun :) It's really easy to get close to c++ numbers (with slight
tweaking in some cases).

>These are all links that you all may be interested. Have a look
please.
And Razii if you please create a profile I can know more about you :-)

1) Is Java the language you would have designed if you didn't have to
be compatible with C?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#Java
2) Would you compare C++ to "some language"?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#compare
3) Others do compare their languages to C++; doesn't that annoy you?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_f...ers-do-compare
4) How can a legacy language like C++ compete with modern, advanced
languages?
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq.html#advanced
5) Why is C++ so BIG?

I have seen the Bjarne Stroustrup FAQ many times. This FAQ was same
last time I was on this newsgroup which was 8 years ago. I lost
interest in java and c++ -- and programming in general -- so moved on
to something else.

Stroustrup is amazingly biased, by the way. He claims Java is a
platform -- and calls it a commercial platform, like Windows. He has
not updated the FAQ that all of java platform (including JVM) is open
source under GPL license.

Also, java -- the language itself -- is not a platform. You can
compile it to native machine code using open source GCJ and Jet
compilers (this was true even when Stroustrup wrote that FAQ -- he was
always wrong).

As I said, Stroustrup is incredibly biased. For example, Stroustrup
claims that number of C++ users doubled from 1980 to 1991. However, he
will never admit that as percentage of total developers, use of C++
declined over from 76 percent in 1998 to 46 percent in 2004 (Data from
analyst firm Evans Data, which carries out regular developer surveys).

[Raz]

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:05:38 -0400, Pete Becker
<pe**@versatilecoding.comwrote:

>I guess that is not the same thing, just doesn't sound good.
Does java even have pointers?

No, but it has object of type NullPointerException.

Well, troll, Pete Becker, of course, Java has pointers in the sense
that all variables point to the objects that they reference. If the
variable is pointing to null object, you get NullPointerException.
That's far better than leaving the behavior undefined like in C++.

[James Kanze]

On May 13, 12:56 pm, Raz <[e-mail]:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:05:38 -0400, Pete Becker

<[e-mail]:

I guess that is not the same thing, just doesn't sound good.
Does java even have pointers?

No, but it has object of type NullPointerException.

Well, troll, Pete Becker, of course, Java has pointers in the
sense that all variables point to the objects that they
reference.

I don't think you understand Pete's particular brand of humor.

If the variable is pointing to null object, you get
NullPointerException. That's far better than leaving the
behavior undefined like in C++.

You mean it's better to impose a wrong behavior, rather than
letting the implementation do the right thing?

I don't like the "undefined" myself, but you can't *require* a
core dump at the language level if the language is to support
machines without any disk. And on all implementations which run
under a real OS, dereferencing a null pointer will result in a
core dump (or whatever the equivalent is on that system).

--
James Kanze (GABI Software) email:ja*********@gmail.com
Conseils en informatique orientée objet/
Beratung in objektorientierter Datenverarbeitung
9 place Sémard, 78210 St.-Cyr-l'École, France, [phone]

[darkscriptc]

On Apr 19, 3:26*pm, [e-mail] wrote:

I've been programming Python for a couple of years now. Now I'm
looking to move on to either C++ or Java, but I'm not sure which.

Which one do you think will be a better transition for a Python
programmer? Which one will educate me the best?

This may sound like a really old guy speaking, but, What do you want
to use the knowledge for?

Learning a language is not an action you take just to LEARN it means
that you will actually use it for something. For example, if you were
good at using language X, and wanted to do a really fast game with
your own exotic algorithms, but language X is not the best at
fulfilling your objective. Then, and only then, do you really need to
go out and look for something that does the job better.

I can't tell you which one is better, because it depends on what you
want to do. However, generally if you want a high performance program
then go with C++. If you want to make something that works on many
platforms, with less coding time, use Java.

In terms of which is easier or not, C++ and Java are the same. You
have some confusions there that aren't in the other, but overall the
amount of confusions, which hopefully is low, is the same between the
two.

Regards,

Wanas