can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
43  12093 
Dom wrote: can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
C++ does not support colors. Please post this question to a programming
newsgroup dedicated to your platform.
--
Attila aka WW
"Attila Feher" <at**********@lmf.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:bk**********@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se... Dom wrote: can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
C++ does not support colors.
[...]
No, but C++ is defined by an ANSI standard, it defines
behaviour when outputting to a "C++ console", and ANSI
defines how to make a console render text in different
colors. So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic. ;)
Here's a quickie:
cout << "\x1b[31mTesting\x1b[0m\n";
For more codes, Google for +ANSI +color.
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "Attila Feher" <at**********@lmf.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:bk**********@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se...
Dom wrote:
can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
C++ does not support colors.
[...]
No, but C++ is defined by an ANSI standard, it defines
behaviour when outputting to a "C++ console", and ANSI
defines how to make a console render text in different
colors. So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic. ;)
Here's a quickie:
cout << "\x1b[31mTesting\x1b[0m\n";
For more codes, Google for +ANSI +color.
Dave
Not again.
See: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lit...html#faq-15.21
What about platforms that don't have consoles?
There is no requirement that a platform have a console.
If a platform _does_ have a console, there is no requirement that
the console be color. It _could_ be monochromatic and still be
compliant with ANSI C++. There is no requirement that a console
support the ANSI Escape sequences. Many Unix windowing programs,
as well as MS Windows and MacIntosh, don't support the ANSI Escape
sequences for a window.
Always search the FAQ and this newsgroup before posting: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=co...sa=G&scoring=d
--
Thomas Matthews
C++ newsgroup welcome message: http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq: http://www.raos.demon.uk/acllc-c++/faq.html
Other sites: http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library
"Thomas Matthews" <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:3F**************@sbcglobal.net... [...]
What about platforms that don't have consoles?
What about them? I don't see anyone asking for color
codes for platforms without consoles.
There is no requirement that a platform have a console.
Who said there was?
If a platform _does_ have a console, there is no requirement
that the console be color.
That's all well and good. But the OP didn't ask how to set
color in a console that doesn't support it. Which is probably
a good thing.
It _could_ be monochromatic and still be compliant with
ANSI C++.
Sure, but whose question does this fact answer?
There is no requirement that a console support the ANSI
Escape sequences.
No, but most people who have a console that can support
color have a console that understands ANSI Escape sequences.
And giving an example of one is far more useful to the OP
than telling him that consoles are not required to support
escape sequences.
Many Unix windowing programs, as well as MS Windows
and MacIntosh, don't support the ANSI Escape sequences
for a window.
[...]
And I should hope that the OP either knows that or will
learn it, if in fact, that is important to him.
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "Thomas Matthews" <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:3F**************@sbcglobal.net...
[...]
What about platforms that don't have consoles?
What about them? I don't see anyone asking for color
codes for platforms without consoles.
These guys are getting irratating. Must be that endless September
issue.
_You_ don't understand. I wasn't replying to the OP's post, but
to yours. One of the reasons that color is not in the ANSI C++
specification is because there isn't a standard for color. Also,
placing it into the standard would require that all platforms
support these features. Which leads to my usual rant on color
afficinados.
{Perhaps you should read my rant in Shiva's Welcome.txt below.}
The Problems Of Color
---------------------
So far, color has not been "standardized". That is to say,
there isn't a standard method for representing color on a
computer (platform). There are so many fundamentals which
making a standard difficult. Listed below are some, but
not the only issues, involved with color.
1. Platforms that don't display information.
Many embedded systems do not have displays. They have
no need of displaying information. Many of these can
be found in household appliances as well as motion
controllers. A VCR display does not need to display
in more than one color, neither does a microwave oven.
Color cannot be required for those platforms that have
no need of it.
2. Displays: Vector & Raster {and others}
There is no common display. Some displays are vector
based others are raster. Color representation between
these two types are definitely different.
3. Monochrome displays.
There are many platforms out there that use a monochrome
display, such as photocopiers and DVD players. No need
to represent color on a platform that only supports
monochrome (i.e. one) color.
4. Color representation.
A pixel is a picture element. How many are required to
represent a color (such as aquamarine)? Some platforms
use one pixel per primary color, others have detailed
color information in the pixel. Which one is standard?
5. Bits per pixel.
How many bits per pixel to represent color? Some platforms
use one bit each for Red, Green, and Blue. Others use 8
bits for each color. Some also have bits for Orange and
Purple. What's the standard here? Cheap & small systems
don't have the memory for 8 bits per pixel. What are they
to do?
6. Subtractive or Additive Color?
Should the standard be based on Red, Green and Blue (such as
a display) or Cyan, Magenta and Yellow (like the printers
use)? What is the equivalence? When I was working at Adobe
with their Postscript systems, they had many tables for
conversion between RGB and CMY. They even had customers
that had printers using Orange and Purple.
7. Brilliance, Intensity, Reflection and other stuff.
Color also depends on intensity, and the transparency of
the medium. A picture printed on 20lb linen paper looks
different when printed on a high gloss stiff paper.
8. Color identification and naming.
A while back, many companies, such a Adobe Systems, Kodak,
Pantone, and others were holding joint meetings for a
proposal of color identifiers. For example, what are the
attributes of Mauve? How is Mauve represented on a: RGB
display, ink jet printer, laser jet printer, film recorder,
thermal transfer color printer and a scanner?
There is no requirement that a platform have a console.
Who said there was?
In order for an ANSI standard for color, it must either
require a platform to have a display/console or provide
exclusions for those that don't.
If a platform _does_ have a console, there is no requirement
that the console be color.
That's all well and good. But the OP didn't ask how to set
color in a console that doesn't support it. Which is probably
a good thing.
I wasn't referring to the OP. I was referring your reply
which gave information about an ANSI driver. _I_ know that
color isn't standard. I asked _you_ how to set color on a
platform that doesn't support color, since you have an attitude
that Color is standardized (or at least there is an ANSI
specification for color, which there isn't. See rant above.) It _could_ be monochromatic and still be compliant with
ANSI C++.
Sure, but whose question does this fact answer?
This is support for the argument that Color isn't in the
ANSI C++ specification. Although the easiest method is
to perform a text search on the electronic form of the
ANSI C++ specification. I'm willing to give in if you can
quote the section that describes color in the C++ standard. There is no requirement that a console support the ANSI
Escape sequences.
No, but most people who have a console that can support
color have a console that understands ANSI Escape sequences.
And giving an example of one is far more useful to the OP
than telling him that consoles are not required to support
escape sequences.
Actually, referring the OP to a newsgroup that discusses
his/her platform is more helpful. I still haven't found
a requirement for a Window in MS Windows to support the
ANSI Escape Sequences. Last time I played with the Ansi
Escape Sequences, they required a driver be loaded. If
the driver wasn't loaded, the Escape Sequences just looked
like garbage and sometimes killed the application. Many Unix windowing programs, as well as MS Windows
and MacIntosh, don't support the ANSI Escape sequences
for a window.
[...]
And I should hope that the OP either knows that or will
learn it, if in fact, that is important to him.
Dave
In summary, color and the use of color is not discussed
in this newsgroup, news:comp.lang.c++, nor it brethren
news:comp.lang.c, because it is a platform dependent
issue. There is no mention of how to use color nor
requirements of color in the ISO specification of either
language. Color representation is difficult by itself
due to the many factors involved. Perhaps one day,
there will be a standard for color in which turquoise,
mauve and peach can be displayed on an RGB screen,
LCD display and laser printer all looking the same.
--
Thomas Matthews
C++ newsgroup welcome message: http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
C++ Faq: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite
C Faq: http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/c-faq/top.html
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++ faq: http://www.raos.demon.uk/acllc-c++/faq.html
Other sites: http://www.josuttis.com -- C++ STL Library book http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl -- Standard Template Library
David B. Held wrote: "Attila Feher" <at**********@lmf.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:bk**********@newstree.wise.edt.ericsson.se... Dom wrote: can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
C++ does not support colors.
[...]
No, but C++ is defined by an ANSI standard,
No. C++ is defined by an ISO/IEC and ANSI joint standard.
it defines behaviour when outputting
to a "C++ console",
No, it does not. It defines behavior of the standard output stream and has
*absolutely no idea* of any console.
and ANSI
defines how to make a console render text in different
colors.
OK. Then post to a comp.lang.c++.plus.everything.else.ansi
Here we talk *only* C++. Platfom dependent things should be discussed where
the platform is discussed. Here we discuss the *language*.
BTW my platform has no ANSI terminal. And it has terminal. Wow.
So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic. ;)
It is entirely off-topic *and* trolling. (Stating obviously stupid thing
just for the sake of argument.)
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
Here we talk *only* C++. Platfom dependent things
should be discussed where the platform is discussed. Here
we discuss the *language*.
I imagine you saying this part with your nose in the air.
BTW my platform has no ANSI terminal. And it has
terminal. Wow.
That's wonderful. Or not. I'm not sure what your point is. So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic. ;)
It is entirely off-topic *and* trolling. (Stating obviously
stupid thing just for the sake of argument.)
Actually, I was being pragmatic. I would say the self-
appointed "moderators" of this *unmoderated* group are
the trolls. In fact, I would say that c.l.c++.m is better-
moderated than this group, and it's considerably more
lenient. Between you and Mr. Matthews, you have spent
about 5 times more energy saying why color is a taboo
subject in C++ than I did giving the OP a probably useful
reply while redirecting him to other resources. That tells
me that you are less interested in talking about C++ than
you are in policing talk about C++. Since the group is
not moderated, you can't prevent people from asking
questions that are in the FAQ or the newsgroup guidelines
or any other document you choose to cite. So instead
of being a bunch of self-righteous pricks, why don't you
let people who choose to be helpful be helpful, and spend
that time answering more questions?
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
Here we talk *only* C++. Platfom dependent things
should be discussed where the platform is discussed. Here
we discuss the *language*.
I imagine you saying this part with your nose in the air.
Please keep your posts on the topc of C++. if you whish to exercise your
attempted humor, go to the alt.flame newsgroup.
BTW my platform has no ANSI terminal. And it has
terminal. Wow.
That's wonderful. Or not. I'm not sure what your point is.
You have missed the point. it is not my point. It is yours too. As long
as you use this newsgroup.
So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic. ;)
It is entirely off-topic *and* trolling. (Stating obviously
stupid thing just for the sake of argument.)
Actually, I was being pragmatic.
You have been off-topic and trolling...
I would say the self-
appointed "moderators" of this *unmoderated* group are
the trolls.
....and continue trolling.
In fact, I would say that c.l.c++.m is better-
moderated than this group, and it's considerably more
lenient.
Try asking there about color printing and then post an answer with
non-postable terminal characters. I'd really love seeing Francis get you.
Between you and Mr. Matthews, you have spent
about 5 times more energy saying why color is a taboo
subject in C++ than I did giving the OP a probably useful
reply while redirecting him to other resources.
I have spent the time thanx to you off-topic trolling. Shitting is OK you
say - it is part of nature. All right, but then do not wonder if someone
does it in your living room.
That tells
me that you are less interested in talking about C++ than
you are in policing talk about C++.
Certainly. That is why I have worked my ass off for years to get into the
C++ committee, to visit all possible conferences and all the 3 of The C++
Seminar. I *am* interested in talking about C++. That is why I wish that
off-topic troll like yourself would just get out of here and leave me time
to answer/read those posts which are about C++.
You may not have a life I have one. And I would rather spend my short free
time on constructive work in here rather than trying to find on-topic posts
in all the junk.
Since the group is not moderated, you can't
prevent people from asking questions that
are in the FAQ or the newsgroup guidelines
or any other document you choose to cite.
Yes. But if they are not assholes - unlike some - and if they are informed
that they should post their C++ language questions here and the rest
elsewhere they will do so. If they are asshole they keep arguing.
So instead
of being a bunch of self-righteous pricks,
F**k you man.
why don't you
let people who choose to be helpful be helpful, and spend
that time answering more questions?
So why don't you crawl back to whereever you crawl out from and *leave us*
here so that we will *have time* to answer questions because we do not need
to waste it reading your fallacies? If you do not wish to participate in a
C++ language newsgroup then please do not waste thousands of people's time
by trolling.
I have no trouble with people giving redirection and giving also an
off-topic answer if they know it. If you care to look you will see I do it
myself if the answer is short. But I do have trouble with people arguing
the topicality of clearly off-topic things and I do have trouble believing
the good intentions of those. And I do count fallacies like yours that all
ANSI standards belong here.
So decide if you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution.
The problem here is that there are some days over 500 posts and many of
those is waste of time to download or look at, because they have nothing to
do with the purpose of this newsgroup. The other problem is people - like
you - who support those instead of trying to keep the volume on a managable
level.
Many C++ experts do not read this newsgroup due to the sheer volume of
off-topic messages. We can all say thanx to those people for that who are
encouraging off-topic threads. Like you.
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
Please keep your posts on the topc of C++.
Why don't you do the same? This thread has degenerated
from a topic that was questionably about C++ to a topic
that is completely unrelated to C++, and you and Mr.
Matthews are primarily responsible.
[...]
Actually, I was being pragmatic.
You have been off-topic and trolling...
I see. So it's more important to bend your will to the
newsgroup gestapo then spend a few lines of text giving
someone a useful pointer. Because being helpful makes
you a "troll". Well, I'd much rather continue this "trolling"
thread and annoy every self-appointed moderator of this
group than stop helping people when it's easy and
convenient to do so. If you don't like that, you are free
to create a moderated newsgroup where you actually
have control over the content.
[...]
Try asking there about color printing and then post an
answer with non-postable terminal characters. I'd really
love seeing Francis get you.
I'm sure you would, because you seem to be sadistic like
that. But frankly, I see numerous threads there that have
little to do with the C++ language itself. Here are some
examples:
Thread safe strings? (as you know, C++ is thread-agnostic)
compiling difference b/w G++ and VC++ (platform-
specific thread)
Protecting or hiding a username and password in C++
(obviously not a C++-specific issue)
Ideas for a midterm and final projects (in C++, but
clearly not a language question)
g007: banning profane language in C++ source code
(not C++-specific)
"frame memory" malapropism? (tangentially related to
C++
IDE for C++ (about as relevant to C++ as color console
output)
Note that even on these questionable threads (which don't
annoy me in the least), even the more "conservative"
posters don't go off on tirades about how the topic isn't
100% related to the newsgroup. Basically, people in
c.l.c++.m have better things to worry about.
[...]
I have spent the time thanx to you off-topic trolling.
But you make it sound like I'm the only person trolling
here. I think your posts are also troll-worthy.
Shitting is OK you say - it is part of nature. All right,
but then do not wonder if someone does it in your living
room.
So if I had said this instead of you, would that make me
a troll?
[...]
You may not have a life I have one. And I would rather
spend my short free time on constructive work in here
rather than trying to find on-topic posts in all the junk.
Well, if you had left it alone, you would have seen exactly
two "off-topic" posts in this thread. But now there are 6
such posts, only half of which were written by me. Not
to mention that you spent all the time writing some of them.
So it seems to me that you would rather spend your "short
free time" policing the group and creating more off-topic
nonsense for *other* people to skip over than merely
dealing with the content that interests you. And if the
off-topic content bothers you so much, why don't you just
read c.l.c++.m instead?
[...]
Yes. But if they are not assholes - unlike some - and if
they are informed that they should post their C++
language questions here and the rest elsewhere they will
do so. If they are asshole they keep arguing.
Hmm...all of my posts have a reply...I wonder what that
means?
[...]
F**k you man.
Umm...who's the troll?
[...]
So why don't you crawl back to whereever you crawl out
from and *leave us* here so that we will *have time* to
answer questions because we do not need to waste it
reading your fallacies?
In this thread, I'm the only person who answered a question.
You and Mr. Matthews spent 5 posts saying why I shouldn't
have answered it. If you have less time to answer interesting
questions, whose fault is that?
If you do not wish to participate in a C++ language
newsgroup then please do not waste thousands of people's
time by trolling.
I see. So answering questions constitutes "trolling", but
policing an umoderated group constitutes "participation".
Wow, the net changes so fast I can't keep up with all the
definitions.
I have no trouble with people giving redirection and giving
also an off-topic answer if they know it. If you care to look
you will see I do it myself if the answer is short. But I do
have trouble with people arguing the topicality of clearly
off-topic things and I do have trouble believing the good
intentions of those.
Oh, you're absolutely right. My whole intention all along was
to bring a flood of off-topic posters to c.l.c++. You caught
me. The answer I gave *was* short, you gave no redirection,
and I never said it was on-topic. Also, you apparently don't
know what a smiley is.
And I do count fallacies like yours that all ANSI standards
belong here.
LOL!! No, that's called an "invalid inference".
So decide if you want to be part of the problem or part of
the solution. The problem here is that there are some days
over 500 posts and many of those is waste of time to
download or look at, because they have nothing to do with
the purpose of this newsgroup.
Ask yourself if any of your posts might fall into that category,
and then ask yourself if you are being "part of the problem or
part of the solution".
The other problem is people - like you - who support those
instead of trying to keep the volume on a managable
level.
Hey, I didn't say: "By all means continue to ask your color-
related questions here." I redirected the OP to a useful
Google search. If there's an unmanageable volume, I'd say
it's because group cops like you double the amount of off-
topic posts.
Many C++ experts do not read this newsgroup due to the
sheer volume of off-topic messages.
They read c.l.c++.m, like you should, if you only want to
see topical messages.
We can all say thanx to those people for that who are
encouraging off-topic threads. Like you.
I defy you to show how I "encouraged" off-topic threads.
Of all the people that have posted after me on this thread,
none of them have asked for further information about
color. And none of them have contributed to C++
discussion either.
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi...
[...]
Here we talk *only* C++. Platfom dependent things
should be discussed where the platform is discussed. Here
we discuss the *language*.
I imagine you saying this part with your nose in the air.
If you don't like the topic of this group, you should go elsewhere. I
can't imagine why you'd want to stay here if you don't like the topic
being discussed.
Actually, I was being pragmatic. I would say the self-
appointed "moderators" of this *unmoderated* group are
the trolls.
Then you need to check the definition of "troll".
In fact, I would say that c.l.c++.m is better-
moderated than this group,
Brilliant observation, seeing as how this group is not moderated.
and it's considerably more
lenient. Between you and Mr. Matthews, you have spent
about 5 times more energy saying why color is a taboo
subject in C++ than I did giving the OP a probably useful
reply while redirecting him to other resources.
This is the point. We are equipped to deal with C++ issues. We are (as a
group) pretty good at solving people's issues with C++. We are NOT good
at answering every random question some jerk who can't be bothered to
find an appropriate group feels like asking.
Off-topic posts (and people like you who seem to think we should expand
the group to deal with anything and everything) make the group less
useful *because* they take so much energy that would otherwise be spent
helping people with C++ problems.
What is the point of having a topic at all if we don't stick to it? It's
what we're good at. There are other people in other groups who are good
at other things. If we allowed every topic under the sun, we wouldn't be
able to help anyone.
That tells
me that you are less interested in talking about C++ than
you are in policing talk about C++.
You are wrong. We would be perfectly happy if the off-topic posts would
stop so we could discuss the topic we come here to discuss. That's
precisely why we enforce topicality rules.
Since the group is
not moderated, you can't prevent people from asking
questions that are in the FAQ or the newsgroup guidelines
or any other document you choose to cite.
Why the hell should we have to? Basic Usenet etiquette covers that. And
if people want to ignore etiquette, why should we help them?
So instead
of being a bunch of self-righteous pricks, why don't you
let people who choose to be helpful be helpful, and spend
that time answering more questions?
Because off-topic posting is NOT helpful. It's rude and disruptive.
You complain about people not getting helped, yet you want to open the
group up to questions that 1) we aren't well-equipped to answer and 2)
will increase the already high traffic, making it more difficult for
anyone to get a question answered? How would that help anyone?
-Kevin
--
My email address is valid, but changes periodically.
To contact me please use the address from a recent posting.
"Thomas Matthews" <Th****************************@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:3F**************@sbcglobal.net... [...]
These guys are getting irratating.
I agree. Mr. "Attila" have turned one post with questionable
topicality in to a newgroup gestapo beat-down.
[...]
_You_ don't understand. I wasn't replying to the OP's
post, but to yours.
Oh, I understand that. I was merely trying to imply that
your post on the relevance of color to C++ really isn't
helpful to anyone. I guess sutbtlety is lost on the internet.
One of the reasons that color is not in the ANSI C++
specification is because there isn't a standard for color.
Well, you're answering a question that wasn't asked, but
maybe people will find that fact useful anyway.
Also, placing it into the standard would require that all
platforms support these features.
Nonsense. As you yourself later note, some platforms
don't make provision for displaying output. The standard
does not require them to do so, even when a program
executes statements which are defined to produce output.
That's because it would be silly to say: "Platforms which
do not produce visible output cannot have a conforming
C++ implementation". In the same manner, it would be
silly to say that color output couldn't be defined by the
standard because some platforms don't support color
output.
[...]
{Perhaps you should read my rant in Shiva's
Welcome.txt below.}
While that's all very interesting, I'm sure, it has even less to
do with C++ than the original post. And yet it's hundreds
of times longer.
[...]
In order for an ANSI standard for color, it must either
require a platform to have a display/console or provide
exclusions for those that don't.
Well, given that that's true (and I'm not going to sit here
and challenge it, because this is already horribly off-topic),
how does that prove that I said that platforms are required
to have a console?
[...]
I wasn't referring to the OP. I was referring your reply
which gave information about an ANSI driver. _I_ know
that color isn't standard. I asked _you_ how to set color
on a platform that doesn't support color, since you have
an attitude that Color is standardized (or at least there is
an ANSI specification for color, which there isn't. See
rant above.)
Well, I'm sorry I displayed that "attitude" towards you, but
here is what I SAID:
"...and ANSI defines how to make a console render
text in different colors..."
I never said how to make a *specific* color, or that it will
render color text on *all* consoles. Obviously, it was
implied that the color codes are only suitable for consoles
which support the ANSI escape sequences, and those
sequences *are* standard, regardless of whether the exact
color values rendered are or not. Since I doubt the OP is
trying to color-match his console output to a Pantone sample,
I think my answer was at least somewhat helpful. Launching
a discourse on whether or not color displays can be
standardized and whether C++ should or should not
attempt to address the issue did not seem useful to the OP,
so I didn't bother to observe every facet of pedantry available
to me.
[...]
This is support for the argument that Color isn't in the
ANSI C++ specification.
And that's probably a good argument, but it's also a straw
man. Congratulations, Don, I think he's dead.
[...]
Actually, referring the OP to a newsgroup that discusses
his/her platform is more helpful.
And would be possible if I knew what his/her platform was.
Giving an example and then referring to a relevant Google
search seems even more helpful to me.
I still haven't found a requirement for a Window in MS
Windows to support the ANSI Escape Sequences.
[...]
Who says the OP's platform was Windows?
[...]
In summary, color and the use of color is not discussed
in this newsgroup, news:comp.lang.c++, nor it brethren
news:comp.lang.c, because it is a platform dependent
issue.
And yet you and Mr. "Attila" have managed to discuss it
at some length. You, in particular, have offered far more
information on color than anyone asked for. While it
makes for an interesting read, it hardly puts you in a position
to argue for topical posts.
Dave
"Kevin Goodsell" <us*********************@neverbox.com> wrote in message
news:1l**************@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink .net... [...] In fact, I would say that c.l.c++.m is better-
moderated than this group,
Brilliant observation, seeing as how this group is not
moderated.
Not in the formal sense, but in practical terms, this group is
more heavily moderated than many I've seen. It's just that
the "moderators" don't have the power to block or cancel
messages.
[...]
Off-topic posts (and people like you who seem to think
we should expand the group to deal with anything and
everything)
I never once said that the group should be expanded. I
answered a question and gave a half-hearted justification
for doing so. How that translates into blowing the doors
off the newsgroup and letting in the unwashed masses is
something that can only be fathomed by the minds of the
newsgroup gestapo, I suppose.
make the group less useful *because* they take so much
energy that would otherwise be spent helping people with
C++ problems.
In my experience, people who are not helped go away.
In my opinion, telling every off-topic poster that he's off-
topic, instead of merely failing to answer the question
doubles the amount of noise on the group.
What is the point of having a topic at all if we don't stick
to it?
The problem is that topics are not defined with a sharp
boundary. Some topics are more relevant than others.
What people consider topical depends at least partly on
subjective values, even if the topic as a whole is fairly
clear.
It's what we're good at. There are other people in other
groups who are good at other things. If we allowed every
topic under the sun, we wouldn't be able to help anyone.
Yes, but you can't really "disallow" off-topic posts, so I
don't really see the utility of spending bandwith to say:
"That's off-topic". Many of the people who post off-topic
messages do so as a first question anyway (and haven't
read anything that would tell them their question is off-topic),
and thus they are unlikely to be deterred by such posts.
People who actually read other posts and would be likely to
see such "moderating" messages are already more likely to
post only relevant topics anyway. That's why I don't
understand the zeal to moderate an unmoderated group.
[...]
You are wrong. We would be perfectly happy if the off-
topic posts would stop so we could discuss the topic we
come here to discuss. That's precisely why we enforce
topicality rules.
But you don't enforce them. You only post annoying
messages about off-topic posts. Frankly, I'm more
annoyed by the large number of such messages than I
am by the off-topic posts. The people who start off-topic
threads usually only post once and go away, never
having learned their lesson and unlikely to learn it. The
ones who post topicality messages apparently have not
learned that such people are not going to be deterred,
because you can't get at them before they decide to post.
[...]
Basic Usenet etiquette covers that. And if people want to
ignore etiquette, why should we help them?
You shouldn't. But why should you waste so much effort
flogging people who do? Do you *really* think you are
increasing the s/n ratio by your actions?
[...]
Because off-topic posting is NOT helpful. It's rude and
disruptive.
Which is what I would call this meta-thread.
You complain about people not getting helped, yet you
want to open the group up to questions that 1) we aren't
well-equipped to answer and 2) will increase the already
high traffic, making it more difficult for anyone to get a
question answered? How would that help anyone?
Again, I never said that I want to "open the group up to
[off-topic] questions". When I complained abut people
not getting help, it was because the newsgroup cops were
offering information that may be technically correct, but
not useful to the person asking the question. I don't give
a rip if people don't respond to off-topic posts. In fact,
I expect that as the status quo. But if they *do* respond,
it seems it would be more useful for everyone if they
gave a *helpful* response rather than a pedantic response
with questionable practical benefit.
Dave
David B. Held wrote:
[...]
Off-topic posts (and people like you who seem to think
we should expand the group to deal with anything and
everything)
I never once said that the group should be expanded. I
answered a question and gave a half-hearted justification
for doing so. How that translates into blowing the doors
off the newsgroup and letting in the unwashed masses is
something that can only be fathomed by the minds of the
newsgroup gestapo, I suppose.
(I don't want to turn this into a flame war. Sorry if my previous
message was overly harsh.)
Off-topic answers are, in many ways, worse than off-topic questions. We
want to discourage off-topic questions, not encourage them. Also,
answers posted on this group are expected to be standard and portable. A
non-standard solution has a good chance of being taken for a standard
solution.
In my experience, people who are not helped go away.
In my opinion, telling every off-topic poster that he's off-
topic, instead of merely failing to answer the question
doubles the amount of noise on the group.
In may experience, people who are not helped ask their question again.
Sometimes people who *are* helped do.
You are right that off-topic redirection messages make up too many of
the posts here. But the goal is to solve the problem of off-topic
posting. People who are scolded for being off topic aren't likely to
make the same mistake again (here or elsewhere, hopefully). People who
are about to be off-topic may even notice the scolding of someone else
and refrain from posting their off-topic message.
I don't think the solution is to ignore the messages. I definitely think
answering off-topic questions in counter-productive. I also think that
being rude is often counter-productive, but I don't blame regulars for
being frustrated with the volume of OT posts, or the lack of etiquette
of the people posting the OT messages.
A polite but firm redirection is the best solution, IMHO.
What is the point of having a topic at all if we don't stick
to it?
The problem is that topics are not defined with a sharp
boundary. Some topics are more relevant than others.
What people consider topical depends at least partly on
subjective values, even if the topic as a whole is fairly
clear.
I find that the group is not completely inflexible, and not always in
agreement about what is topical. Messages that are borderline topical
often get ignored by the "OT police" or replied to with a, "Well, this
isn't strictly topical, but..." I don't think there's really a problem
here. The general topic is clear. Borderline topics don't usually invoke
the wrath of the pseudo-mods. I think this arrangement is OK.
It's what we're good at. There are other people in other
groups who are good at other things. If we allowed every
topic under the sun, we wouldn't be able to help anyone.
Yes, but you can't really "disallow" off-topic posts, so I
don't really see the utility of spending bandwith to say:
"That's off-topic". Many of the people who post off-topic
messages do so as a first question anyway (and haven't
read anything that would tell them their question is off-topic),
This is the problem. These people need to learn some netiquette.
and thus they are unlikely to be deterred by such posts.
People who actually read other posts and would be likely to
see such "moderating" messages are already more likely to
post only relevant topics anyway. That's why I don't
understand the zeal to moderate an unmoderated group.
The goal is to keep the noise minimal, as well as maintain the topic of
the group (by preventing topic drift). I don't think there's a better
option. I don't believe "ignore it and it will go away" will work here.
But you don't enforce them. You only post annoying
messages about off-topic posts. Frankly, I'm more
annoyed by the large number of such messages than I
am by the off-topic posts. The people who start off-topic
threads usually only post once and go away, never
having learned their lesson and unlikely to learn it. The
ones who post topicality messages apparently have not
learned that such people are not going to be deterred,
because you can't get at them before they decide to post.
We do the best we can. Sorry if it annoys you. I don't believe leaving
people to go post off-topic messages somewhere else is the way to handle
OT posters. Another problem is that all the off-topic messages make this
group show up in Google searches for things that are completely
off-topic here. We've had people say "I thought this would be a good
place to ask because when I put [some search terms] into Google, this
group came up." Besides that, emphasizing the topic increases the
chances that people will notice that their question is not topical
before they post.
[...]
Basic Usenet etiquette covers that. And if people want to
ignore etiquette, why should we help them?
You shouldn't. But why should you waste so much effort
flogging people who do? Do you *really* think you are
increasing the s/n ratio by your actions?
Well, I don't flog. (At least, not lately. I may have done so in the
past.) I politely redirect. I even say "please".
[...]
Because off-topic posting is NOT helpful. It's rude and
disruptive.
Which is what I would call this meta-thread.
At least it's topical.
Again, I never said that I want to "open the group up to
[off-topic] questions". When I complained abut people
not getting help, it was because the newsgroup cops were
offering information that may be technically correct, but
not useful to the person asking the question.
It is useful. It helps them figure out what the scope of the language
is, and where the best place to get help for question outside that scope
is (or at least, where it is *not*).
I don't give
a rip if people don't respond to off-topic posts. In fact,
I expect that as the status quo. But if they *do* respond,
it seems it would be more useful for everyone if they
gave a *helpful* response rather than a pedantic response
with questionable practical benefit.
Off-topic replies are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I'm afraid the off-topic redirections come with the territory here. I'm
sorry if you don't like them, but they aren't going to go away unless
(miraculously) the OT posting stops.
-Kevin
--
My email address is valid, but changes periodically.
To contact me please use the address from a recent posting. du*******************@yahoo.com (Dom) wrote in message news:<56**************************@posting.google. com>... can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
Dom........
A lot of techno going on here.......Try this
#include <iostream>
#include <conio.c> // for getch(); & clrscr();
using namespace std;
void printat(int ,int , char *);
int main()
{
clrscr();
textcolor(12); //sets text color
textbackground(9 ); //sets text background
cout <<" Here we go !! \n\n"; //colored printf
getch();
textcolor(12+BLINK); //uses blinking
textbackground(1);
cout <<" And One more time !\n\n";
getch();
textcolor(14+BLINK);
textbackground(13);
cout << " Look out for another color \n\n";
printat(24,70,"Teeyester");
getch();
}
void printat(int row,int col, char s[])
{
gotoxy(col,row);
cprintf("%s",s);
}
//The different color codes are
//0 BLACK
//1 BLUE
//2 GREEN
//3 CYAN
//4 RED
//5 MAGENTA
//6 BROWN
//7 LIGHTGRAY
//8 DARKGRAY
//9 LIGHTBLUE
//10 LIGHTGREEN
//11 LIGHTCYAN
//12 LIGHTRED
//13 LIGHTMAGENTA
//14 YELLOW
//15 WHITE
..........code came from planet source code, so I still haven't figured
out the blinking part(maybe API or something) but the original
question was how to get color in text in DOS without API's
David B. Held wrote:
[SNIP] Actually, I was being pragmatic.
You have been off-topic and trolling...
I see. So it's more important to bend your will to the
newsgroup gestapo then spend a few lines of text giving
someone a useful pointer.
If you would read posts here for other purposes than picking up a good
trolling place for yourself you would know that this is not true.
Because being helpful makes you a "troll".
No. Being an asshole stating that everything belongs here which is covered
by any of the ANSI standards belongs here does. Keeping arguing about your
off topic post (which you have stated as on-topic) when you clearly know it
was off-topic is. What makes *you* a troll is wasting peoples time and
posting deliberate flame baits.
Well, I'd much rather continue this "trolling"
thread and annoy every self-appointed moderator of this
group than stop helping people when it's easy and
convenient to do so.
Get a wife and start crewing her. We have enough jerks in this NG without
you.
If you don't like that, you are free
to create a moderated newsgroup where you actually
have control over the content.
Actually I have control over the content here as well. I just choose not to
killfile you, because I know that your fake-liberal postings will encourage
the thankx-to-god-sleeping jerks who used to create 50+ posts Windows
programming threads.
The problem is that you are not liberal as you try to put it. You come into
a group which has its own ground rules and you try to change them to those
of yours. That it either a self-absorbed consrvative (who cannot imagine
that there can be anything else than what he thinks is good) or an
anarchist. Neither one is needed in a technical newsgroup.
[...]
Try asking there about color printing and then post an
answer with non-postable terminal characters. I'd really
love seeing Francis get you.
I'm sure you would, because you seem to be sadistic like
that. But frankly, I see numerous threads there that have
little to do with the C++ language itself. Here are some
examples:
Thread safe strings? (as you know, C++ is thread-agnostic)
As you know, C++ is being changed. Threads are being added.
In addition threads like that are not rejected here either by most. If you
care to look into the thread not only picking up subject lines which seem to
support you you would see that the posts are *not* about threads programming
but about where is C++ heading and why could a string fail in MT.
compiling difference b/w G++ and VC++ (platform-
specific thread)
No, it is not. It is concentrating on the standard compliance of two
compilers and portability. *Not anything* platform specific.
Protecting or hiding a username and password in C++
(obviously not a C++-specific issue)
Obviously... did you care to look at more than the subject?
Ideas for a midterm and final projects (in C++, but
clearly not a language question)
No. And such questions are asked and answered here as well.
g007: banning profane language in C++ source code
(not C++-specific)
It is C++ specific. It is guideline James Bond... sorry 007 in a series of
proposed guidelines for C++ programmers.
"frame memory" malapropism? (tangentially related to
C++ IDE for C++ (about as relevant to C++ as
color console output)
That thread had nothing to do with C++ IDEs. It is an attempt to clarify if
a term means anything or not.
Note that even on these questionable threads (which don't
annoy me in the least), even the more "conservative"
posters don't go off on tirades about how the topic isn't
100% related to the newsgroup. Basically, people in
c.l.c++.m have better things to worry about.
Basically yes. In there the jerks stating that ANSI consolse codes belong
to the topic of ANSI C++ are cut off before they reach the air. So yes,
clcm can be more liberal on topics, because it will still be a moderated
discussion.
But then again within the topics you have picked up above there are only two
questionable at first sight but one of them is part of a set and the other
is terminology clarification.
[...]
I have spent the time thanx to you off-topic trolling.
But you make it sound like I'm the only person trolling
here. I think your posts are also troll-worthy.
You think wrong. Wouldn't be the first case.
Shitting is OK you say - it is part of nature. All right,
but then do not wonder if someone does it in your living
room.
So if I had said this instead of you, would that make me
a troll?
No. What makes you a troll is to provoke these.
[...]
You may not have a life I have one. And I would rather
spend my short free time on constructive work in here
rather than trying to find on-topic posts in all the junk.
Well, if you had left it alone, you would have seen exactly
two "off-topic" posts in this thread.
Two as the 4 posts exchanged between you and Thomas plus the 5th original
off-topic post? Beware I do not count your answer to the original as
off-topic. It was only trolling/silly to state that ANSI terminals are
topical here.
But now there are 6
such posts, only half of which were written by me.
Yeah. You have just described how trolls work. Look: people have started
to correct you and not me, and that started the avalanche.
Not
to mention that you spent all the time writing some of them.
Sure. That is why I said that do not waste our time with trolling. We have
to respond for a while to make sure newbies will not be mislead and sleeping
troll encouraged by your fallacies. Then we might killfile or ignore you if
it seems to be hopeless to make you think.
So it seems to me that you would rather spend your "short
free time" policing the group and creating more off-topic
nonsense for *other* people to skip over than merely
dealing with the content that interests you.
Keeping the topicality of the group is not off-topic. And no, I am rather
not, but I go in the order as posts show up and I feel that it is also my
responsibility to keep this group on-topic. So it is yours.
And if the
off-topic content bothers you so much, why don't you just
read c.l.c++.m instead?
I read that too. But it starts to hit me that you actually suggest that
people who want to discuss the C++ language in peace here should go away and
that off-topic ranters and trolls stay. Do you see the Fe in it?
[...]
Yes. But if they are not assholes - unlike some - and if
they are informed that they should post their C++
language questions here and the rest elsewhere they will
do so. If they are asshole they keep arguing.
Hmm...all of my posts have a reply...I wonder what that
means?
Means you are successfull in trolling?
[...]
F**k you man.
Umm...who's the troll?
You. Let's not take things out of context:
So instead
of being a bunch of self-righteous pricks,
F**k you man.
[...]
So why don't you crawl back to whereever you crawl out
from and *leave us* here so that we will *have time* to
answer questions because we do not need to waste it
reading your fallacies?
In this thread, I'm the only person who answered a question.
Yes. But unfortunately in addition to this you have stated that all ANSI
standards are topical here.
You and Mr. Matthews spent 5 posts saying why I shouldn't
have answered it.
I did not. I have spent two posts (3 with that) to tell that your statement
about ANSI terminals being topical here is false.
If you have less time to answer interesting
questions, whose fault is that?
Yours.
If you do not wish to participate in a C++ language
newsgroup then please do not waste thousands of people's
time by trolling.
I see. So answering questions constitutes "trolling",
No. Stating obvious bullshit as truth does. It is the definition of
trolling. Starting flame wars with such a flame bait does.
but
policing an umoderated group constitutes "participation".
Yes. Metat-talk is topical.
Wow, the net changes so fast I can't keep up with all the
definitions.
Better look for another job. You would make a perfect IRS official. AFAIK
they also drive people crazy.
I have no trouble with people giving redirection and giving
also an off-topic answer if they know it. If you care to look
you will see I do it myself if the answer is short. But I do
have trouble with people arguing the topicality of clearly
off-topic things and I do have trouble believing the good
intentions of those.
Oh, you're absolutely right. My whole intention all along was
to bring a flood of off-topic posters to c.l.c++. You caught
me.
I know.
The answer I gave *was* short, you gave no redirection,
and I never said it was on-topic.
David:"No, but C++ is defined by an ANSI standard, it defines
behaviour when outputting to a "C++ console", and ANSI
defines how to make a console render text in different
colors. So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic."
Short? Not rtue. Never said it was on-topic? Not true.
WW:"Please post this question to a programming
newsgroup dedicated to your platform."
I never gave a redirection? Not true.
Also, you apparently don't know what a smiley is.
Apparently I do know.
And I do count fallacies like yours that all ANSI standards
belong here.
LOL!! No, that's called an "invalid inference".
Read your post.
So decide if you want to be part of the problem or part of
the solution. The problem here is that there are some days
over 500 posts and many of those is waste of time to
download or look at, because they have nothing to do with
the purpose of this newsgroup.
Ask yourself if any of your posts might fall into that category,
and then ask yourself if you are being "part of the problem or
part of the solution".
Unlike you I do that vefore I post.
The other problem is people - like you - who support those
instead of trying to keep the volume on a managable
level.
Hey, I didn't say: "By all means continue to ask your color-
related questions here." I redirected the OP to a useful
Google search. If there's an unmanageable volume, I'd say
it's because group cops like you double the amount of off-
topic posts.
You stated that ANSI terminals are topical here. I have never had problem
with yopu *answering* the question and giving redirection as I have already
told you.
Many C++ experts do not read this newsgroup due to the
sheer volume of off-topic messages.
They read c.l.c++.m, like you should, if you only want to
see topical messages.
I am sorry, but since when do you decide what do I read?
We can all say thanx to those people for that who are
encouraging off-topic threads. Like you.
I defy you to show how I "encouraged" off-topic threads.
Think. It might be unusual thing to do but believe me it is worth of it.
Of all the people that have posted after me on this thread,
none of them have asked for further information about
color. And none of them have contributed to C++
discussion either.
They have contributed to discourage posting fallacies - like yours is about
ANSI reminals being topical - to this newsgroup.
--
WW aka Attila
Teeyester wrote: A lot of techno going on here.......Try this
[nonportable crap SNIPped]
Please do not post non-portable propriatery code to comp.lang.c++
Thanks again David B. Held! Good work!
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message news:<bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>... Teeyester wrote: A lot of techno going on here.......Try this
[nonportable crap SNIPped]
Please do not post non-portable propriatery code to comp.lang.c++
Thanks again David B. Held! Good work!
Well WW...
I must apoligize for my first post here then and my total failure to
recognize the format of this forum
"Off-topic answers are, in many ways, worse than off-topic questions.
We
want to discourage off-topic questions, not encourage them. Also,
answers posted on this group are expected to be "standard" and
"portable". A
non-standard solution has a good chance of being taken for a standard
solution."
I am fairly new to C++ myself and browsed this forum trying to
learn a thing or two. Dom's original post said nothing about being
portable or standard..He merely asked about a way to change text
color(something I recently was experimenting with myself).....Us new
people have to do that....So I thought I would post something however
non-portable or non-standard that might give him an insight of where
to begin looking.......because reguardless of the techicnal aspects of
whether C++ does or dosen't support color, eventually most of us want
to find out how to do whatever is necessary to change color.
It would appear that this forum is probably over my head and since
you seem to reguard David B. Held in high reguard, he posted some good
advise for newbies a couple of post above.
"In my experience, people who are not helped go away. In my opinion,
telling every off-topic poster that he's off-topic, instead of merely
failing to answer the question doubles the amount of noise on the
group."
So I shall heed his advise and respectfully ....go away .....
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... Teeyester wrote: Well WW...
I must apoligize for my first post here then and my total
failure to recognize the format of this forum
Read these:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
Isn't it a little late to post a link to something called
"welcome"?
Dave
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... Teeyester wrote: A lot of techno going on here.......Try this
[nonportable crap SNIPped]
Please do not post non-portable propriatery code to
comp.lang.c++
Thanks again David B. Held! Good work!
I'd do it again for no other reason than to annoy you personally.
Now *that's* trolling!
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... Teeyester wrote: Well WW...
I must apoligize for my first post here then and my total
failure to recognize the format of this forum
Read these:
http://www.slack.net/~shiva/welcome.txt
Isn't it a little late to post a link to something called
"welcome"?
Thanks to you it is.
--
WW aka Attila
David B. Held wrote: "WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... Teeyester wrote: A lot of techno going on here.......Try this
[nonportable crap SNIPped]
Please do not post non-portable propriatery code to
comp.lang.c++
Thanks again David B. Held! Good work!
I'd do it again for no other reason than to annoy you personally.
Now *that's* trolling!
You had no other reason so far either. Unless you intended to annoy every
decent user of this newsgroup.
--
WW aka Attila
"Teeyester" <Te*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93**************************@posting.google.c om... [...]
It would appear that this forum is probably over my head
Don't worry, the self-appointed newsgroup fuhrer claims to
be on the C++ committee and still makes fundamental errors
in his posts.
[...]
"In my experience, people who are not helped go away. In
my opinion, telling every off-topic poster that he's off-topic,
instead of merely failing to answer the question doubles the
amount of noise on the group."
So I shall heed his advise and respectfully ....go away .....
But don't just leave. Leave for greener pastures. Check out
comp.lang.c++.moderated, which is much more pleasant to
read, because you don't see all the messages from angry
people who act like moderators but are frustrated that they
lack the power to be moderators.
Dave
David B. Held wrote: "Teeyester" <Te*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93**************************@posting.google.c om... [...]
It would appear that this forum is probably over my head
Don't worry, the self-appointed newsgroup fuhrer claims to
be on the C++ committee and still makes fundamental errors
in his posts.
If you find any, point them out. So far it is only your mouth mumbling. At
least I do not keep post nonportable bullsh*t. [...]
"In my experience, people who are not helped go away. In
my opinion, telling every off-topic poster that he's off-topic,
instead of merely failing to answer the question doubles the
amount of noise on the group."
So I shall heed his advise and respectfully ....go away .....
But don't just leave. Leave for greener pastures. Check out
comp.lang.c++.moderated, which is much more pleasant to
read, because you don't see all the messages from angry
people who act like moderators but are frustrated that they
lack the power to be moderators.
Out of the two of us you are the one who gets more and more frustrated. You
cannot even do decent trolling.
--
WW aka Attila
David B. Held wrote: "Teeyester" <Te*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93**************************@posting.google.c om... [...]
It would appear that this forum is probably over my head
Don't worry, the self-appointed newsgroup fuhrer claims to
be on the C++ committee and still makes fundamental errors
in his posts.
Ahh. I did not see your attempted sarcasm and failed attempt to prove me
lie. I am not on the C++ committee as a voting member (yet). I will be
there as an observer for now. Since unlike you dropping in here and trying
to change the rules I like to take the time to know what I am supposed to do
and what not. And IIRC I did not write I am on the C++ committee. If I
did, that was just wrong wording. IIRC I said I have worked my ass off to
get there. Last time I have been invited (Oxford) to observe and contribute
if I can I could not do it due to reasons beyond my control. Now I am
looking forward to it - despite of your ill-mannered bull-baiting.
Especially because I have already prepared a contribution which I guess will
be argued into pieces. What will give me the opportunity to be humiliated
based on reasons rather than annoying trolls' clouded fictions and
fixations. And that means I will learn a lot.
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... David B. Held wrote: "Teeyester" <Te*******@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93**************************@posting.google.c om... [...]
It would appear that this forum is probably over my head
Don't worry, the self-appointed newsgroup fuhrer claims to
be on the C++ committee and still makes fundamental errors
in his posts.
If you find any, point them out.
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... You are not allowed to place anything into the std
namespace!
So far it is only your mouth mumbling.
Hmm...how's my mumbling now? Oh, sure, you
followed it up with this convenient bit of backpedaling:
You are not placing them into the standard namespace.
They are there and you are allowed to specialize them.
Nice of you to mention that in the original post.
At least I do not keep post nonportable bullsh*t.
At least I don't tell users things that aren't in the standard.
That seems more evil than a non-portable solution, if you
ask me.
[...]
Out of the two of us you are the one who gets more and
more frustrated. You cannot even do decent trolling.
Oh, I'm so sad. You said I was a bad troll. And daddy
troll and mommy troll also said I was a no good troll kiddy.
Let's see...which one of us said:
"Get a wife and start crewing her."
While I am interested in rowing, I'm not sure I would find a
wife on the local crew team. So which one of us is "more
frustrated"? I can provide lots of other quotes, if there is
any doubt.
Dave
David B. Held wrote: So far it is only your mouth mumbling.
Hmm...how's my mumbling now?
You, troll.
Oh, sure, you
followed it up with this convenient bit of backpedaling:
You are not placing them into the standard namespace.
They are there and you are allowed to specialize them.
Nice of you to mention that in the original post.
???
At least I do not keep post nonportable bullsh*t.
At least I don't tell users things that aren't in the standard.
Really? So you tell them about ANSI terminals, which are not in the
standard.
BTW I see you have afound new trolling tactics: take things out of context.
Good job. Although only a 6 years old would fall for it but hey, you have
tried.
That seems more evil than a non-portable solution, if you
ask me.
Making a mistake (if I did) is not as evil as driving a newsgroup
deliberately off-topic and then keep trolling around as you do.
[...]
Out of the two of us you are the one who gets more and
more frustrated. You cannot even do decent trolling.
Oh, I'm so sad. You said I was a bad troll. And daddy
troll and mommy troll also said I was a no good troll kiddy.
Let's see...which one of us said:
"Get a wife and start crewing her."
Yes. Tipical respons to a troll. The trolls' sole purpose in life is to
create flame. And the troll uses flame baits (obviously wrong or stupid
things, like telling that ANSI terminals are in the realm of the standard
C++) to achieve that. Just like you. How interesting.
While I am interested in rowing, I'm not sure I would find a
wife on the local crew team. So which one of us is "more
frustrated"? I can provide lots of other quotes, if there is
any doubt.
You have not yet seen me frustrated. That little suggestion above was the
first sign of me completely giving up on you since your stonehead is unable
to grasp even the simplest idea - doesn't matter how many tells it to you.
Feel yourself killfiled.
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
If you would read posts here for other purposes than
picking up a good trolling place for yourself you would
know that this is not true.
And this is not an groundless, antagonistic statement? What
is the definition of 'trolling' again?
Because being helpful makes you a "troll".
No. Being an asshole stating that everything belongs here
which is covered by any of the ANSI standards belongs
here does.
Oh, I see. When you *reply* to an off-topic post, nothing
you say is considered "trolling". That means you are free to
put words in people's mouths and fail to quote them when
you attribute a claim to them. My bad.
Keeping arguing about your off topic post (which you have
stated as on-topic) when you clearly know it was off-topic
is.
I never claimed it was on-topic. I gave a half-hearted
justification for answering the question. But obviously, you
don't know what a smiley is. At this point, I'm not arguing
about my post. I'm arguing about the fact that you are
expending so much energy perpetrating the very evil you
complain about, which is off-topic posting.
What makes *you* a troll is wasting peoples time and
posting deliberate flame baits.
Ah. I guess none of these could be considered "flame baits":
"Being an asshole stating that everything belongs
here which is covered by any of the ANSI standards
belongs here does."
"Get a wife and start crewing her."
"You think wrong. Wouldn't be the first case."
"Better look for another job. You would make a perfect
IRS official. AFAIK they also drive people crazy."
"Think. It might be unusual thing to do but believe me it
is worth of it."
That's from just your last post alone. I could compile a
veritable tome if I just dug through a few more posts.
Where I come from, people who accuse others of
something they are engaged in at the moment are called
"hypocrites".
[...]
Get a wife and start crewing her. We have enough jerks in
this NG without you.
Do you talk like this during committee meetings when
someone disagrees with you?
[...]
Actually I have control over the content here as well.
You may have control over the content you see, but you are
impotent to change the content that is posted.
I just choose not to killfile you, because I know that your
fake-liberal postings will encourage the thankx-to-god-
sleeping jerks who used to create 50+ posts Windows
programming threads.
The world sleeps better under your watchful eye of
protection.
The problem is that you are not liberal as you try to put it.
Was I trying to sound liberal? That's funny...I didn't even
know political persuasion had entered the thread.
You come into a group which has its own ground rules and
you try to change them to those of yours.
Oh, you're right. The first thing I did when I came here
was to take the welcome message and group guidelines and
twist them for my own evil purposes. Muaaahahahaha!!!
Soon, the entire newsgroup will be mine!!!! <more evil
laughing>
That it either a self-absorbed consrvative (who cannot
imagine that there can be anything else than what he thinks
is good)
Hmm...that sounds like someone I've seen recently...
or an anarchist. Neither one is needed in a technical
newsgroup.
Tell that to the hypocrite.
[...]
Thread safe strings? (as you know, C++ is thread-
agnostic)
As you know, C++ is being changed. Threads are being
added.
"Being"? What percentage of progress is there? Last time I
heard, features either existed in the language or they didn't.
For that matter, who is to say that color support will not be
added? After all, people have even talked about color-
sensitive source code!
In addition threads like that are not rejected here either by
most.
Well, it's impossible for me to read every thread to see which
off-topic posts are really on-topic. Perhaps you could make
a list.
If you care to look into the thread not only picking up
subject lines which seem to support you you would see that
the posts are *not* about threads programming but about
where is C++ heading and why could a string fail in MT.
Since threading is currently platform-specific, I don't see
how you could argue that it's a C++ discussion. Otherwise,
we might as well talk about the Dinkumware implementation
of strings.
compiling difference b/w G++ and VC++ (platform-
specific thread)
No, it is not. It is concentrating on the standard compliance
of two compilers and portability. *Not anything* platform
specific.
Umm...you don't think discussion about compiler flags and
extensions in g++ is "platforms-specific"?? What do you
call it?
Protecting or hiding a username and password in C++
(obviously not a C++-specific issue)
Obviously... did you care to look at more than the subject?
Yup. And not a single post discusses C++ code. That's
because the thread is really about network security, despite
having 8 posts in it, and not one warning by the moderator
that the thread is unrelated to C++.
Ideas for a midterm and final projects (in C++, but
clearly not a language question)
No. And such questions are asked and answered here as
well.
It's nice how you pick and choose which OT topics to make
on-topic.
g007: banning profane language in C++ source code
(not C++-specific)
It is C++ specific. It is guideline James Bond... sorry 007
in a series of proposed guidelines for C++ programmers.
Oh, I see. Banning profane language isn't possible or
appropriate in Ada or Forth or Haskell or Fortran. It's
only something relevant to C++ source and programmers.
My mistake. I need to put more swearing in my Java code.
"frame memory" malapropism? (tangentially related to
C++ IDE for C++ (about as relevant to C++ as
color console output)
That thread had nothing to do with C++ IDEs. It is an
attempt to clarify if a term means anything or not.
In your incompetence, you ran together two lines which
were not the same in the original post. Anyway, the term
was not specific to C++, and IDEs don't have anything
to do with C++ and are highly platform-specific.
[...]
Basically yes. In there the jerks stating that ANSI
consolse codes belong to the topic of ANSI C++ are
cut off before they reach the air.
Actually, it's even worse than that. I'm saying that the
moderation itself is more relaxed, and you don't get the
impression that the moderators hyperventilate every
time they see a post with questionable topicality.
So yes, clcm can be more liberal on topics, because it
will still be a moderated discussion.
But with thugs like you roaming the newsgroup, so will
threads here.
But then again within the topics you have picked up
above there are only two questionable at first sight
Obviously, we disagree.
but one of them is part of a set and the other is
terminology clarification.
"Part of a set"? What is that supposed to mean? And
since when is non-C++ specific terminology relevant
to a C++ newsgroup? What if I started asking about
cache memory? Or bus-mastering peripherals? Is
that type of terminology clarification on-topic?
[...]
No. What makes you a troll is to provoke these.
I see. So when I say something antagnostic, it makes me
a troll. When you say something antagonistic, you were
"provoked". Now it makes sense.
[...]
It was only trolling/silly to state that ANSI terminals are
topical here.
Obviously, I wasn't vigorously defending the idea that
ANSI color codes were 100% topical. Hence, THE
SMILEY. And to say that I was trolling is ridiculously
cynical. You're the one that likes to start flame wars
whenever someone rubs you the wrong way. You're the
most disruptive poster on this newsgroup, so far as I can
tell. I would also be extremely suprised if the C++
committee allowed someone as unprofessional as
yourself participate in discussions. I would not be
suprised if you started cussing out committee members.
[...]
Yeah. You have just described how trolls work. Look:
people have started to correct you and not me, and that
started the avalanche.
Well, I corrected you. But since you don't take correction
well, I've had to write a lot of posts. Now *that's* trolling!
[...]
Sure. That is why I said that do not waste our time with
trolling. We have to respond for a while to make sure
newbies will not be mislead and sleeping troll encouraged
by your fallacies.
I'm sure a veritable army of trolls was lurking in the
background, waiting for me, their troll leader, to sound the
charge so they could flood the newsgroup. It is only by
your brave resistance that my efforts have been thwarted!
Then we might killfile or ignore you if it seems to be
hopeless to make you think.
Oh, waaah! You might ignore me!! Then what will I do?
I'll tell you what: I'll do a little dance...make a little love...
get down tonite! Ok, maybe I won't go that far, though
it might be cause for celebration all the same.
[...]
Keeping the topicality of the group is not off-topic. And no,
I am rather not, but I go in the order as posts show up and I
feel that it is also my responsibility to keep this group on-topic.
So it is yours.
I think you should appoint Kevin as the "official" moderator.
He can at least manage to get his point across without swearing
like a 1337 h@x0r punk. I gotta give him props for that.
[...]
I read that too. But it starts to hit me that you actually
suggest that people who want to discuss the C++ language
in peace here should go away and that off-topic ranters and
trolls stay. Do you see the Fe in it?
No, I suggest that the people who want to discuss the C++
language here should realize that you can't moderate an
unmoderated group. So for your own sanity, chill out a
little and let the world be imperfect now and then. It will
continue turning if a few off-topic posts slip through the
cracks.
[...]
Means you are successfull in trolling?
Thanks to you! ;)
[...]
Yes. But unfortunately in addition to this you have stated
that all ANSI standards are topical here.
LOL!!! I think it's quite a stretch to draw that conclusion,
but you seem to be prone to drawing tenuous conclusions.
It's amazing what doctrines you have pulled out of a 5-line
paragraph. You have managed to conclude that:
1) I am a conservative or
2) I am an anarchist
3) My purpose here is to troll and cause anarchy
4) I think all ANSI standards are topical here
5) I think that color output is defined in ANSI C++
6) I want to liberalize the newsgroup guidelines
7) I think that ANSI terminals are entirely on-topic
In a few more posts, I expect you to blame me for the
holocaust and violence in society, based on my definitive
5-line paragraph.
[...] If you have less time to answer interesting questions,
whose fault is that?
Yours.
Mr. Matthews and Mr. Goodsell seem to have moved on.
Apparently, they're less fixated with pointing fingers than
they are with talking about C++.
[...]
No. Stating obvious bullshit as truth does.
It is the definition of trolling.
Hmm...like "color isn't defined in ANSI C++"? How about
"not all terminals display color"? I've seen a lot of "obvious
bs" stated here, not by me, and yet I seem to be the only
troll. Funny how that works.
Starting flame wars with such a flame bait does.
Well, you're the only one here engaged in a flame war.
How Mr. Goodsell and Mr. Matthews managed to avoid
that while you couldn't, I'm not sure. But obviously, it isn't
just about me.
[...] The answer I gave *was* short, you gave no redirection,
and I never said it was on-topic.
David:"No, but C++ is defined by an ANSI standard, it
defines behaviour when outputting to a "C++ console", and
ANSI defines how to make a console render text in different
colors. So in a roundabout way, I don't think it's entirely
off-topic."
Short? Not rtue.
8 lines of text not counting blank lines or my signature is
not "short"?? What do you think is short? 1 line?
Never said it was on-topic? Not true.
No, I didn't. I said "I don't think it's entirely off-topic".
That is entirely different from saying it is "on-topic". Or
perhaps you think topicality is a binary measure.
WW:"Please post this question to a programming
newsgroup dedicated to your platform."
I never gave a redirection? Not true.
A redirection to where? What if the OP doesn't even
know where to find a newsgroup dedicated to his
platform? What if you asked a traffic cop for directions
to the store, and he told you: "Go in the direction of
the place that sells things." Would you call that a
successful "redirection"? Also, you apparently don't know what a smiley is.
Apparently I do know.
Then you simply don't understand the notion of
tongue-in-cheek. [...]
Ask yourself if any of your posts might fall into that
category, and then ask yourself if you are being "part
of the problem or part of the solution".
Unlike you I do that vefore I post.
I would be quite suprised if anyone were to come here
and see your posts and decide: "Wow. I like this group
because Attila makes sure all the posts are on-topic."
Rather, I would expect that many people come here
and say: "I'm not going to go there, because that White
Wolf might bite my head off." [...]
They read c.l.c++.m, like you should, if you only want to
see topical messages.
I am sorry, but since when do you decide what do I read?
Since when did I decide what you read? I gave you a helpful
suggestion, but you don't seem to understand what those are. [...]
I defy you to show how I "encouraged" off-topic threads.
Think. It might be unusual thing to do but believe me it is
worth of it.
[...]
Oh, well when you put it that way, it's obvious that you were
right and I was wrong. Man, you're a good debater!
Dave
David B. Held wrote:
[trolling SNIPPED]
Does ignoring that he is ignored make an ignorant an ignoramus? Forget it.
I did not yet put you into my killfile to see if you still keep bashing me
behind my back as your last and most abject resort. You do. That put you
in place in my world had I have any doubts before. So long and thanks for
all the fish!
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk**********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
Really? So you tell them about ANSI terminals, which are
not in the standard.
I never implied that they were.
BTW I see you have afound new trolling tactics: take things
out of context.
I don't think I've taken anything out of context unfairly.
[...]
Making a mistake (if I did) is not as evil as driving a
newsgroup deliberately off-topic and then keep trolling
around as you do.
Actually, you're the one that has contributed the most to
your little flame war.
[...]
Yes. Tipical respons to a troll. The trolls' sole purpose in
life is to create flame.
Considering the amount of flame you have created, it hardly
seems reasonable to not call you a troll.
And the troll uses flame baits (obviously wrong or stupid
things, like telling that ANSI terminals are in the realm of
the standard C++) to achieve that.
Still haven't shown where I said that.
Just like you. How interesting.
Is putting words into people's mouths "flame bait"? Because
you've done that several times now. How that does not
make you a troll is beyond my capability to comprehend.
[...]
You have not yet seen me frustrated. That little suggestion
above was the first sign of me completely giving up on you
since your stonehead is unable to grasp even the simplest
idea - doesn't matter how many tells it to you.
I see. And which "simplest idea" would that be?
Feel yourself killfiled.
Please pause while I observe a moment of mourning. How
will I ever recover from this devastating psychological
trauma? We'll see if this is a bluff or not, I suppose.
Dave
David B. Held wrote:
[trolling SNIPPED]
Does ignoring that he is ignored make an ignorant an ignoramus? Forget it.
I did not yet put you into my killfile to see if you still keep bashing me
behind my back as your last and most abject resort. You do. That put you
in place in my world had I have any doubts before. So long and thanks for
all the fish!
--
WW aka Attila
"WW" <wo***@freemail.hu> wrote in message
news:bk*********@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi... [...]
I did not yet put you into my killfile to see if you still keep
bashing me behind my back as your last and most abject
resort.
LOL!!! When you reply to provocative comments, it's a
valiant defense of newsgroup guidelines, no matter how
profane. When I do it, it's a "last and most abject resort"!
How very melodramatic.
You do. That put you in place in my world had I have
any doubts before. So long and thanks for all the fish!
Wolves eat fish? Do the dolphins know that?
Dave
WW wrote:
David B. Held wrote: So far it is only your mouth mumbling.
Hmm...how's my mumbling now?
You, troll.
You lost.
regards,
alexander.
Alexander Terekhov wrote: WW wrote:
David B. Held wrote: So far it is only your mouth mumbling.
Hmm...how's my mumbling now?
You, troll.
You lost.
No, I did not. There is more to it Alexander than what you can grasp. But
I was sure that as David has already woke up some sleeping trolls that you
will jump in here as well. You know to loose you need to loose something.
I did not loose my etchics to bash someone behind his back when I think he
has killfiled me. David did. If anyone lost it was the group thanks to the
numerous trolls who will use David's fallacies to have some more arguments
to justify their idiotic behavior.
--
WW aka Attila
WW wrote:
[...] You lost.
No, I did not.
Wanna have a link on denial? ;-)
regards,
alexander.
Teeyester wrote:
So I shall heed his advise and respectfully ....go away .....
No. You should not go away.
But you should learn what's in the standard language and what's not. In this
newsgroup we discuss the standard language only: Things that are the same on whatever
compiler you use (minus compiler bugs of course :-)
Basically what's off topic:
Everything dealing with hardware. The standard language doesn't deal with
that and you will always have to use extensions which are available on
your specific system only. This includes eg:
monitor or screen control
color
controlling the cursor
clearing the screen (a very popular question)
mouse
keyboard
parallel connections
serial connections
etc...
The other big group are platform specific questions, as in:
how do I figure out the amount of memory
how to control paging or swapping
how to read a directory (while the standard contains a rudimentary
concept of a file, all bets are off if we talk about directories)
...
--
Karl Heinz Buchegger kb******@gascad.at
Alexander Terekhov wrote: WW wrote:
[...] You lost.
No, I did not.
Wanna have a link on denial? ;-)
Wanna have a link on how to stop trolling? BTW taking a 4 words sentence
out of the 94 words context is just as good for trolling as David's "I was
just joking if you have proved I was wrong but otherwise I was right"
tactics.
Anyways why I am talking to you. I don't have to prove anything to you -
esp. because I know you don't give a damn you are just here for another
action in your "how can we humiliate others" game.
--
WW aka Attila
WW wrote:
[...] Wanna have a link on how to stop trolling?
Yep, I'll really appreciate it.
[snip whining]
I know you don't give a damn you are just here for another
action in your "how can we humiliate others" game.
Uhmm, shall I take it that I made you feel humiliated?
regards,
alexander.
Alexander Terekhov wrote: WW wrote:
[...] Wanna have a link on how to stop trolling?
Yep, I'll really appreciate it.
[snip whining]
I know you don't give a damn you are just here for another
action in your "how can we humiliate others" game.
Uhmm, shall I take it that I made you feel humiliated?
Only most of the time.
--
WW aka Attila
WW wrote:
[...] Uhmm, shall I take it that I made you feel humiliated?
Only most of the time.
Well, I'll spare you a link to denial. Here we go directly to: http://www.toddlertime.com/sam/53.htm
regards,
alexander.
Alexander Terekhov wrote: WW wrote:
[...] Uhmm, shall I take it that I made you feel humiliated?
Only most of the time.
Well, I'll spare you a link to denial. Here we go directly to:
http://www.toddlertime.com/sam/53.htm
Thanx, but no thanx. There can be many things done to obscure reality but
reality does not really care about them.
--
WW aka Attila
David B. Held wrote:
[SNIP] It is entirely off-topic *and* trolling. (Stating obviously
stupid thing just for the sake of argument.)
Actually, I was being pragmatic. I would say the self-
appointed "moderators" of this *unmoderated* group are
the trolls. In fact, I would say that c.l.c++.m is better-
I had a hunch, so I have made a little search. According to Google you have
alltogether posted 88 articles to comp.lang.c++. Many of those is trolling
in this thread. Your first post appeares here end of October 2002 and most
of your posts starts to date from August 2003 - which seems to be the time
when your article with Andrei (whom is a friend to me) was about to appear
in CUJ. One cannot really forget the idea that it is some sort of
"comeback" or kinda (forgive me for saying that) marketing campaign to bring
your name to be known. IMO this is not the best way to do it.
Furthermore as Andrei is a very good friend to me and I find him a thinking
and balanced person I must admit that you must not be that completely broken
minded clever-S whom you seemed to be here. I base that on the fact that
Andrei writes articles with you and that you are a very active member of
Boost. So I must think that your "take it easy" approach on the questions
of being off-topic and your errors of answering the wrong post (thereby
implying your support to off-topic) was an honest mistake. I should have
taken it in that way at the first place, but unfortunately there are too way
many way too similar real trolls in here - lately.
As for the topic of off-topic. As you haven't been around comp.lang.c++ (at
least your contributions show that your sort-of everyday involvement started
only this August, approximately a month ago) I think you did not yet realize
how serious problem the off-topic posts and the off-topic threads growing
from them mean here. For me (for example) it is (n+1)*2 minues until
MicroSlow OutOfLuck XStress catches up the unread, but not displayed
(ignored) articles (n+1) times per day from these ignored threads. In
addition to this is the job of downloading, reading, redirecting etc. of
those, which can finally mean that my tired mind has not stamina left to
look at any code longer than 10 lines.
As for the mistake of the reply. Please - if I may suggest - if you want to
answer to someone: answer that post. Answering to a redirecting post with
an off-topic answer, especially from a name from CUJ, also (even if with a
smiley, even if it is a joke) with a "justification" that the topic is OK is
a bad thing to do. It implies that the one you answer to is the one who
redirected the post. It implies that you do not agree with the redirection.
It implies that - in a certain way - your statement was more to say:
everything is OK to be posted here, rather than giving help. And this will
serve as a Google-archived future precedent to every troll who wants to
justify discussing ActiveX programming here or how to compile the Linux
kernel.
As you are a CUJ published author you will really need to take more care
about what you say and do here. Your example (be it bad or good) and even
your mistakes will count a 100 times more than mine or any other regular
poster. While I understand that as an occasional guest here you do not feel
or see the unecessary pressure the off-topic posts and trolls put on this
newsgroup as regulars do, but please believe thos who are here daily for the
last n+3 years that it is pretty bad.
This post was intended as an apology and as an attempt to clear up
misunderstandings and hopefully put our future conversations into a more
moderated (pun intended) manner. I do not know you and you do not know me.
The reason I have revised my viewpoint is because I know Andrei worked with
you - and I know that this must mean something. That has helped me to
realize that I have based my judgement about your post on a partial truth
and therefore my first corrspondence was rather arrogant than friendly. And
that has highly contributed to our later heated discussion.
So I am sorry I have suspected bad intentions while there was only a
mistake. But please also you keep in mind that off-topic here is
(unfortunately) not a joke; replying to the one you intent your post to
helps to avoid misunderstanding and that since your name is know via CUJ you
can either help us regulars a lot with keeping this NG managable or worsen
our situation a lot.
Ps: As a lesson from this I am thinking about either cutting back on coffee
or my tongue. I think the coffee part is more cost effective and definitely
less pain.
--
WW aka Attila
can someone please help me display text in the console
cout << "Testing";
in a different colour to the default one
changing color is very simple with the c++ console
here is a small sample for changing the text RED, using RGB
void red()
{
HANDLE h=GetStdHandle(STD_OUTPUT_HANDLE);
SetConsoleTextAttribute(h, FOREGROUND_RED | FOREGROUND_INTENSITY);
};
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