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should I study C or C++ or Java or Visual Basic?

P: n/a
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?

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Nov 22 '06 #1
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P: n/a
grappletech napsal:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?

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You can get many free compilers for various platforms (for example Gnu
C/C++ is available for almost any platform). You can find many of them
at http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml

Question "C or C++ or Java or Visual Basic?" is not good for C++ forum.
The answer is of course C++. You can ask on java forum and you'll get
answer java, etc. I (personaly) would recommend C++ or java. C is also
good. But definitely not Visual Basic (no flame - it is just my
personal opinion).

Nov 22 '06 #2

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grappletech wrote:
Any recommendations?
Try a search engine.
Such questions were posted thousands of times already.
Nov 22 '06 #3

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grappletech:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses
about a decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode,
algorithms, and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should
perhaps learn a more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a
"Beginning C" book, but the C programs won't compile in the free
compilers I have downloaded. The syntax is different. I guess I have
to buy a programming package, but money's tight. Any recommendations?

C++, it's the Swiss army knife of programming languages.

--

Frederick Gotham
Nov 22 '06 #4

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grappletech <no***@removenowhere.bizwrote:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?
Yes. You should also study SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. As well as
Scheme, Lisp, CLOS, Eiffel, and Ada.

--
To send me email, put "sheltie" in the subject.
Nov 22 '06 #5

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[...]
Yes. You should also study SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. As well as
Scheme, Lisp, CLOS, Eiffel, and Ada.
I'd look at ASM :)
>
Nov 22 '06 #6

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DevC++ is a good, free development environment:
http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html, along with Dialog Designer for
wxWidgets: http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net/.

Alan

Nov 22 '06 #7

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Daniel T. wrote:
Yes. You should also study SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. As well as
Scheme, Lisp, CLOS, Eiffel, and Ada.
There are a lot of languages that could be removed, either because they
are redundant or obsolete.
On the other hand, there is no representative of the ML family.
Nov 22 '06 #8

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[Followups set to acclcc++]

grappletech said:
I got a "Beginning C"
book, but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have
downloaded.
C is C. Sounds like you got a lousy book, so the solution is to get a better
book. "The C Programming Language", 2nd edition, by Kernighan and Ritchie,
is the definitive guide to C, and worth every penny. (Dennis Ritchie is the
creator of the C language.)

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at the above domain, - www.
Nov 22 '06 #9

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Alan wrote:
DevC++ is a good, free development environment:
http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.html, along with Dialog Designer for
wxWidgets: http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net/.

Alan
Get Code::Blocks instead. AFAIK, Dev-C++ is no longer being developed
and Code::Blocks is its moral successor.

Incidentally, I think Visual Studio Express by Microsoft is even better,
and it's also free.
Nov 22 '06 #10

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"Mathias Gaunard" <lo******@remove.gmail.comwrote in message
news:45***********************@news.free.fr...
Daniel T. wrote:
>Yes. You should also study SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. As well as
Scheme, Lisp, CLOS, Eiffel, and Ada.

There are a lot of languages that could be removed, either because they
are redundant or obsolete.
On the other hand, there is no representative of the ML family.
In that case I recommend Objective CAML. Obviously partly because it just
sounds funny :)
Nov 22 '06 #11

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Mathias Gaunard <lo******@remove.gmail.comwrote:
Daniel T. wrote:
Yes. You should also study SmallTalk, Python, and Ruby. As well as
Scheme, Lisp, CLOS, Eiffel, and Ada.

There are a lot of languages that could be removed, either because they
are redundant or obsolete.
Ah, but they are still worthy of study.
On the other hand, there is no representative of the ML family.
Damn I knew I missed a few. Here are over 1000 languages, all worthy of
study:
http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/abc.html

--
To send me email, put "sheltie" in the subject.
Nov 23 '06 #12

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On Nov 22, 9:34 pm, grappletech <n...@removenowhere.bizwrote:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses abouta
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?
If I were you I'd studdy C++, C is also good but it does not have any
OO which is good to know these days. The reason you should go for C++
is that it allows you to do very low-level stuff and program at a very
abstract level. The low-level stuff is good since it teaches you how a
computer and programs work, which is a very good thing. The abstract
thing is good since that's how you should program mostly (there are
exceptions of course). If you are quite good at C++ you'll be quite
good at most languages (except functional ones), the same can not
always be said the other way around.

If you are running on windows I'd recommend trying Visual C++ Express,
a very good environment.

--
Erik Wikström

Nov 23 '06 #13

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Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages. It
allows for very rapid development times. Don't go for VB.NET as the
newer versions are really a bit of a step backwards and do not offer
the same development speed. Most of the "post vb 6.0" versions are a
bit unstable as well. VB 6.0 remained the same for 8 years, so it has
no bugs like the newer flaky version.

Hope this helps
The Grand Master
grappletech wrote:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?

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Nov 23 '06 #14

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Master Programmer said:
Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages.
I dispute that.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at the above domain, - www.
Nov 23 '06 #15

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Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages.
....
The Grand Master
Enough said.
Nov 23 '06 #16

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Geo

Master Programmer wrote:
Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages.
You are one funny guy, I nearly fell of my chair laughing....

Nov 23 '06 #17

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Gernot Frisch wrote:
Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages.
...
The Grand Master

Enough said.
Yeah but what's he a "Grand Master" of? He certainly seems to be a
Troll, but I don't think he is much of a master at trolling as his
posts to now aint't been sophisticated enough IMO, That also means he
can't be a Grand Master of everything. Now maybe he is a Grand Master
BASIC programmer, but in that case why isnt he on some Basic newsgroup
expounding his pearls of wisdom to his apprentices? He certainly don't
seem to have much detail on programming as such, but then I suppose
once you reach such a high level, everything is nothing and nothing is
everything and all that mumbo jumbo. Maybe when you reach the lonely
mountain peaks of programming you turn to Visual Basic as some sort of
"retro programming chic"challenge?.

I guess thats the power of being a Grand master. You can speak what
seems to me be absolute crap, but which is in fact incredibly profound,
except no one understands it, unless they too are a Grand Master. Thats
a lonely position to be in, but this could explain why he's here.
Perhaps its only that on comp.lang.c++ where enough Grand Master
programmers exist, where that programming depth, knowledge and
experience exist, that there is some hope that here someone might
understand? I guess maybe the loneliness of greatness in the world of
VB has become too much to bear?

regards
Andy Little

Nov 23 '06 #18

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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:34:00 -0600, grappletech
<no***@removenowhere.bizwrote:
>I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
What do you want to do and what are you doing it on?

If you want to write programs with a Windows/GUI interface then I
would suggest a language that comes with a standard GUI API built in -
VB, Java, C# or similar. If you just want to write console programs
(green on black text only) then languages without a standard GUI API
will also be possible - C, C++. GUI APIs are available for both, but
they are not standard.

If you are on Linux then Java is probably a good choice; C# and VB are
only really options if you are working on Windows. C and C++ are
available for both platforms. I do not know what is available for the
Mac, probably C, C++ and Java.

C is a lower level language than Pascal or BASIC. C++ has the kitchen
sink and everything thrown in, it can be low level, high level or
anything in between. It has a steep learing curve because it is so
large. Having also started with BASIC and Pascal (and Algol 60!) I
would think that Java (Linux or Windows) or C# (Windows) would be the
best to start with. VB would probably be a step backwards from Java
or C#, and since you already know some BASIC it would be good to learn
a different language.

Once you have picked up one language it is easy to pick up others.

rossum

Nov 23 '06 #19

P: n/a
In article <11**************@sp6iad.superfeed.net>, grappletech
<no***@removenowhere.bizwrites
>I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different.
Then you have either a badly broken book (very likely as the majority
are) or a broken compiler (much less likely). Quincy + GCC or MinGW with
MinGWStudio both work fine as C compilers as do several others.
I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?
Absolutely unnecessary but tell us which book you are using and give us
an example of code from the book that fails to compile.
--
Francis Glassborow ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' and "You Can Program in C++"
see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects
Nov 23 '06 #20

P: n/a
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?
I second whats have been said about c++. If you have time, and want to
learn a language that gives you fundamentals inside general
programming. C++ is the way.

Btw. Master Programmer was revealed as a Troll in an earlier post.

This is highly off topic in this group, but i checked out the website
to visual studio c++ express, and couldnt find the diffrent between
that and the retail version. I am going to code a network server,
(plain bsd socket standard for portability to unix), and some classes
to be used in a directX game.. but i am not going to take care of any
directX stuff at all, so it will be standard C++.

Since i saw on the page that VC++ Express was fully compliance with the
standard c++ and all that, i started considering installing the express
version instead of getting the whole retail package. Anyone know the
diffrent between express and retail, and will there be any advantages
for me there??

Nov 23 '06 #21

P: n/a
Your language choice should be driven by what sort of programs you want
to build. If you want cross platform development then Java is the
answer, but yes Java apps tend to be slow as they are a huge resource
hogg. Same is the case with .net based systems. Development is easy
with Visual Studio .Net but its a choice that you need to make. C / C++
will be my suggestion, primarily because with C one has to do a lot of
thing by himself, thus leading to better understanding. VB is for
rapid development. VB6 can be good language if you want only guis to be
developed and FAST.
higen wrote:
I took Pascal and BASIC in a couple of beginner programming courses about a
decade ago and did well with them. I am good with pseudocode, algorithms,
and the mathematics of programming. I decided I should perhaps learn a
more powerful language to program my own apps. I got a "Beginning C" book,
but the C programs won't compile in the free compilers I have downloaded.
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package, but
money's tight. Any recommendations?

I second whats have been said about c++. If you have time, and want to
learn a language that gives you fundamentals inside general
programming. C++ is the way.

Btw. Master Programmer was revealed as a Troll in an earlier post.

This is highly off topic in this group, but i checked out the website
to visual studio c++ express, and couldnt find the diffrent between
that and the retail version. I am going to code a network server,
(plain bsd socket standard for portability to unix), and some classes
to be used in a directX game.. but i am not going to take care of any
directX stuff at all, so it will be standard C++.

Since i saw on the page that VC++ Express was fully compliance with the
standard c++ and all that, i started considering installing the express
version instead of getting the whole retail package. Anyone know the
diffrent between express and retail, and will there be any advantages
for me there??
Nov 24 '06 #22

P: n/a
ab**********@gmail.com said:
Your language choice should be driven by what sort of programs you want
to build.
....and by your employer's or client's requirements, if relevant; and by the
availability of implementations for your target platforms; and by your
innate preferences (because we're all more effective when using languages
that we feel at home with); and by the availability of any required
third-party libraries; and... and... and....

This is not a simple matter of "for *that* kind of program, use *that*
language.
If you want cross platform development then Java is the
answer,
Well, it's *an* answer. Other answers exist.
but yes Java apps tend to be slow as they are a huge resource
hogg. Same is the case with .net based systems.
Resource hog? Yes. Cross-platform development? No, I don't think so, unless
by "cross-platform" you mean "across any of the very, very few platforms
that .Net supports".
Development is easy
with Visual Studio .Net but its a choice that you need to make.
That's certainly true.
C / C++ will be my suggestion, primarily because with C one has to do a
lot of thing by himself, thus leading to better understanding.
That's an excellent reason, and here's another: with C (and indeed with
C++), any performance problems you're having are *your* problems! :-) That
is, you can of course write slow programs in any language, but with C and
C++ you can't blame it on the language, nor are you likely to be able to
blame it on the implementation.
VB is for
rapid development. VB6 can be good language if you want only guis to be
developed and FAST.
C++ Builder fills this role even more effectively. In fact, one might argue
that the proper role of Visual Basic in GUI programming history was that it
showed what could be done, at which point C++ Builder appeared and showed
how it could be done well.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at the above domain, - www.
Nov 24 '06 #23

P: n/a
grappletech wrote:
The syntax is different. I guess I have to buy a programming package,
but money's tight. Any recommendations?
The best things in life are free. Download Ruby and dive in.

BTW this (utterly biased) online survey

http://visualpatterns.com/polls.jsp

says 47% of the engineers would pick Ruby on Rails over other Web
technology, such as Java or .NET.

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
Nov 24 '06 #24

P: n/a
On Nov 23, 11:18 pm, "higen" <egil.hast...@gmail.comwrote:
>This is highly off topic in this group, but i checked out the website
to visual studio c++ express, and couldnt find the diffrent between
that and the retail version. I am going to code a network server,
(plain bsd socket standard for portability to unix), and some classes
to be used in a directX game.. but i am not going to take care of any
directX stuff at all, so it will be standard C++.

Since i saw on the page that VC++ Express was fully compliance with the
standard c++ and all that, i started considering installing the express
version instead of getting the whole retail package. Anyone know the
diffrent between express and retail, and will there be any advantages
for me there??
As far as I understand the compiler is exactly the same, what differs
is what tools and stuff you get in the IDE. Take a look at
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/aa700921.aspx for a
comparison.

--
Erik Wikström

Nov 24 '06 #25

P: n/a
higen wrote:
Since i saw on the page that VC++ Express was fully compliance with the
standard c++ and all that, i started considering installing the express
version instead of getting the whole retail package. Anyone know the
diffrent between express and retail, and will there be any advantages
for me there??
I know that the express version does not include the psdk, so you will
have to download that separately if you want to program with the winapi.
setting up the psdk is easy, they even provide a video tutorial:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/le...s/default.aspx

you can see the differences between versions here:
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...h9(VS.80).aspx

basically with the express version you don't get all the development
tools but you probably won't miss them if you are just starting out.

nabiy
--
| http://neworder.box.sk |
| a community-based resource for security and networking |
--
Nov 24 '06 #26

P: n/a

"Master Programmer" <ma***************@outgun.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@m30g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages. It
allows for very rapid development times. Don't go for VB.NET as the
newer versions are really a bit of a step backwards and do not offer
the same development speed. Most of the "post vb 6.0" versions are a
bit unstable as well. VB 6.0 remained the same for 8 years, so it has
no bugs like the newer flaky version.

Hope this helps
The Grand Master
No way! CA-Realizer!

Ralph
Nov 26 '06 #27

P: n/a

"kwikius" <an**@servocomm.freeserve.co.ukwrote in message
news:11**********************@k70g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
Gernot Frisch wrote:
Visual Basic 6.0 is the undisputed GOD of programming languages.
...
The Grand Master

Enough said.

Yeah but what's he a "Grand Master" of? He certainly seems to be a
Troll, but I don't think he is much of a master at trolling as his
posts to now aint't been sophisticated enough IMO, That also means he
can't be a Grand Master of everything. Now maybe he is a Grand Master
BASIC programmer, but in that case why isnt he on some Basic newsgroup
expounding his pearls of wisdom to his apprentices?
Checking his profile
He posts on microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb a lot, criticizing vb.net
Ralph
He certainly don't
seem to have much detail on programming as such, but then I suppose
once you reach such a high level, everything is nothing and nothing is
everything and all that mumbo jumbo. Maybe when you reach the lonely
mountain peaks of programming you turn to Visual Basic as some sort of
"retro programming chic"challenge?.

I guess thats the power of being a Grand master. You can speak what
seems to me be absolute crap, but which is in fact incredibly profound,
except no one understands it, unless they too are a Grand Master. Thats
a lonely position to be in, but this could explain why he's here.
Perhaps its only that on comp.lang.c++ where enough Grand Master
programmers exist, where that programming depth, knowledge and
experience exist, that there is some hope that here someone might
understand? I guess maybe the loneliness of greatness in the world of
VB has become too much to bear?

regards
Andy Little

Nov 27 '06 #28

P: n/a
Checking his profile
He posts on microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb a lot, criticizing
vb.net
Ralph
Seems that "classes" are too complicated for the grand master...
Nov 28 '06 #29

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