Do you have the C or C++ standard? (serious question)

[Chris Hills]

Hi,

It came up in a standards panel meeting the other day that "all c or C++
programmers" have a copy of ISO C and/or C++ ...

I challenged this and said most don't (outside those working on the
standards).

Well, do most of you have a copy of the relevant ISO language standard
of your own or is there one on your desk at work?
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Keith Thompson]

Richard Heathfield <in*****@invalid.invalidwrites:

Michael Wojcik said:

>In article <+I**************@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.orgwrites:

>>>
Well, do most of you have a copy of the relevant ISO language standard
of your own or is there one on your desk at work?

For C90 I have Schildt's _Annotated_, which has all but one page of
ISO 9899:1990;

I trust you have torn out and burned all the annotations. :-)

Let me know when you've figured out how to do that. 8-)}

(For the unaware: the annotations, which are dangerously incorrect,
are printed on opposite pages to the standard itself. See
<http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html(but the server is down at
the moment).)

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

[kim]

I don't.
I've never even read the C or C++ standards. Or K&R for that matter.

I originally learnt C by reading the books that came with Borland or
Turbo C 1.something and C++ by reading the ones that came with Borland
C++ 3.0. (I think. It may have been 2.something.)

Portability was never a priority for me or any of my employers; my code
has always targeted specific platforms, that didn't necessarily follow
the standard that closely.

The singular exception to this, was library code written to compile on
an embedded platform using a (somewhat buggy) IAR compiler and on the
PC with Borland; but almost all (or possibly actually all - it's been a
while) of the code that didn't bugger up the IAR compiler, ran
perfectly on Borland.

Despite this, at the two places I've worked for the last nearly 15
years, I've been the guy other coders refer to on C and C++ matters.
Even the kinkier aspects.
Scary, isn't it? :-)

I do have the special edition of Stroustrup's "The C++ Programming
Language" and Josuttis', IMHO utterly indispensable, "The C++ Standard
Library".

[Chris Hills]

In article <ln************@nuthaus.mib.org>, Keith Thompson
<ks***@mib.orgwrites

>Richard Heathfield <in*****@invalid.invalidwrites:

>Michael Wojcik said:

>>In article <+I**************@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.orgwrites:

Well, do most of you have a copy of the relevant ISO language standard
of your own or is there one on your desk at work?

For C90 I have Schildt's _Annotated_, which has all but one page of
ISO 9899:1990;

I trust you have torn out and burned all the annotations. :-)

Let me know when you've figured out how to do that. 8-)}

(For the unaware: the annotations, which are dangerously incorrect,
are printed on opposite pages to the standard itself. See
<http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html(but the server is down at
the moment).)

At the time the book was published many said that the standard cost
120 USD and the book 30 USD thereby indicating the added value of the
authors annotations....

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ ch***@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

[Marco]

Chris Hills wrote:

Hi,

It came up in a standards panel meeting the other day that "all c or C++
programmers" have a copy of ISO C and/or C++ ...

I challenged this and said most don't (outside those working on the
standards).

Well, do most of you have a copy of the relevant ISO language standard
of your own or is there one on your desk at work?

I have both the C and C++ standard in PDF. Most of my co-workers
don't. I would say most developers use a popular language book as a
reference not the standard.

[Michael Wojcik]

In article <i5********************@bt.com>, Richard Heathfield <in*****@invalid.invalidwrites:

Michael Wojcik said:

In article <+I**************@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hills
<ch***@phaedsys.orgwrites:

>
Well, do most of you have a copy of the relevant ISO language standard
of your own or is there one on your desk at work?

For C90 I have Schildt's _Annotated_, which has all but one page of
ISO 9899:1990;

I trust you have torn out and burned all the annotations. :-)

No, I conscientiously avert my eyes from them instead, as an exercise
in rigor, and leave them as a trap for unwary book-thieves.

--
Michael Wojcik mi************@microfocus.com

Pocket #16: A Ventriloquist's "Helper" -- Recordings for Divers Occasions,
especially cries to put in the mouths of enemies -- "God Bless Captain
Vere!" "Les jeux sont faits!" &c. -- Joe Green

[Anthony Irwin]

Jack Klein wrote:

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:57:40 +0100, Chris Hills <ch***@phaedsys.org>
wrote in comp.lang.c:

Most C programmers have a copy of K&R2 on their shelf, I don't see
nearly as many copies of Stroustrup (any version) on the C++
programmers' shelves. Other books abound, including H&S for the C
programmers, but there are also a distressingly large number of
Schildt books.

Hi I was just wondering what is wrong with the Schildt books? I
purchased the C++ the compleate reference and C the compleate reference
both 4th edition books. The purpose was to have a language reference, I
was under the impression that both these books covered the standards.

I remember reading that the C reference first covered the c89 standard
then gives the c99 standard.

I am just starting to learn C so was wondering if there is anything in
those books that will lead me in the wrong direction.

I am going to be programming on unix based systems gnu/linux and freebsd
mainly.

Kind Regards,
Anthony Irwin

[Richard Heathfield]

Anthony Irwin said:

Jack Klein wrote:

>On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:57:40 +0100, Chris Hills <ch***@phaedsys.org>
wrote in comp.lang.c:

Most C programmers have a copy of K&R2 on their shelf, I don't see
nearly as many copies of Stroustrup (any version) on the C++
programmers' shelves. Other books abound, including H&S for the C
programmers, but there are also a distressingly large number of
Schildt books.

Hi I was just wondering what is wrong with the Schildt books?

Nothing at all, assuming you just needed some kindling.

I
purchased the C++ the compleate reference and C the compleate reference
both 4th edition books. The purpose was to have a language reference, I
was under the impression that both these books covered the standards.

Then you might want to give some thought to sueing the publisher. :-)

From time to time, people try to count the bugs in Schildt's understanding
of C and C++, but invariably they lose count and have to start again.

I would give you a little list to get you started, but Seebs did one years
ago, so I'll find you a URL to that, instead:

http://herd.plethora.net/~seebs/c/c_tcr.html

Peter Seebach is on the ISO C Committee, by the way. Here's another, this
one from Clive Feather (who is also on the ISO C Committee):

http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html (temporarily down, but bookmark it
for later)

And here's a nasssty trick Peter played on the good folks of clcm (note the
posting date):

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....*@plethora.net

I remember reading that the C reference first covered the c89 standard
then gives the c99 standard.

I am just starting to learn C so was wondering if there is anything in
those books that will lead me in the wrong direction.

I think that's true. That is, just about anything in those books will lead
you in the wrong direction.

I am going to be programming on unix based systems gnu/linux and freebsd
mainly.

"The C Programming Language", 2nd edition, by Kernighan and Ritchie.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)