By using this site, you agree to our updated Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Manage your Cookies Settings.
424,850 Members | 972 Online
Bytes IT Community
+ Ask a Question
Need help? Post your question and get tips & solutions from a community of 424,850 IT Pros & Developers. It's quick & easy.

strncpy not that easy to use

P: n/a
How does( or should user use) strncpy() to allocate enough memory space for
the destination string, s1?

I guess I am having trouble using strncpy as it seems to be giving me
errors.

And just as well, I don't know the value of n until the program runs, so it
needs to be dynamically allocated.

Then again I hard coded n to be number like3 just to even see if that works.
470 char *
471 strncpy(char *s1, const char *s2, size_t n)
472 {
473 char *os1 = s1;
474
475 n++;
476 while (--n != 0 && (*s1++ = *s2++) != '\0')
477 ;
478 if (n != 0)
479 while (--n != 0)
480 *s1++ = '\0';
481 return (os1);
482 }

Aug 30 '06 #1
Share this Question
Share on Google+
27 Replies


P: n/a
smnoff said:
How does( or should user use) strncpy() to allocate enough memory space
for the destination string, s1?
strncpy doesn't allocate any space. It just copies and pads. If you are
(rightly) concerned not to overflow your target buffer, strncpy is not
sufficient. You must know how many bytes of data you need from the source
string, and provide at least that many bytes (plus one for a null
terminator, if relevant, which it nearly always is) for strncpy to use as a
destination. If your real requirement is to copy the entire string, which
it nearly always is, at that point you might just as well use strcpy.
I guess I am having trouble using strncpy as it seems to be giving me
errors.
It is far more likely that /you/ are giving /it/ errors. If it really is
necessary for you to use strncpy, which it hardly ever is, I suggest you
show us your calling code, rather than your attempt at an implementation.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Aug 30 '06 #2

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
How does( or should user use) strncpy() to allocate enough memory space for
the destination string, s1?

I guess I am having trouble using strncpy as it seems to be giving me
errors.

And just as well, I don't know the value of n until the program runs, so it
needs to be dynamically allocated.

Then again I hard coded n to be number like3 just to even see if that works.
470 char *
471 strncpy(char *s1, const char *s2, size_t n)
472 {
473 char *os1 = s1;
474
475 n++;
476 while (--n != 0 && (*s1++ = *s2++) != '\0')
477 ;
478 if (n != 0)
479 while (--n != 0)
480 *s1++ = '\0';
481 return (os1);
482 }
You've quoted a particular implementation of strncpy(), but if you're
going to use it you should base your usage on the documented semantics
of the function, not on how it happens to be written in one particular
implementation.

You say it seems to be givin you errors, but you don't tell us what
kind of errors, so there's not much we can do to help.

In general, though, strncpy() isn't likely to be what you want to use.
If the target array is too small, it may not be terminated with a '\0'
character (i.e., it may not be a string); if it's larger than it needs
to be, strncpy() pads it with additional '\0' characters, which is
usually wasteful.

It's usually better to use strcpy(), or perhaps memcpy() *after*
making absolutely sure that the target array is big enough.

If you have specific questions, post your actual code and tell us how
it fails.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 30 '06 #3

P: n/a
This code is part of a DLL that was created in Visual Studio and hence VS
doesn't always give me the error message. This DLL is being called by an
external program totally outside of Visual Studio.

Actually, I really want to know how to make this dll code run entirely in
Visual Studio so I can get the debugger to work fully as this is Visual
Studio DLL project.

Would I have to create a totally separate project to get all this debugging
to work OR would I just get same unknown error messages I have been getting
when I use the external program?


"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>How does( or should user use) strncpy() to allocate enough memory space
for
the destination string, s1?

I guess I am having trouble using strncpy as it seems to be giving me
errors.

And just as well, I don't know the value of n until the program runs, so
it
needs to be dynamically allocated.

Then again I hard coded n to be number like3 just to even see if that
works.
470 char *
471 strncpy(char *s1, const char *s2, size_t n)
472 {
473 char *os1 = s1;
474
475 n++;
476 while (--n != 0 && (*s1++ = *s2++) != '\0')
477 ;
478 if (n != 0)
479 while (--n != 0)
480 *s1++ = '\0';
481 return (os1);
482 }

You've quoted a particular implementation of strncpy(), but if you're
going to use it you should base your usage on the documented semantics
of the function, not on how it happens to be written in one particular
implementation.

You say it seems to be givin you errors, but you don't tell us what
kind of errors, so there's not much we can do to help.

In general, though, strncpy() isn't likely to be what you want to use.
If the target array is too small, it may not be terminated with a '\0'
character (i.e., it may not be a string); if it's larger than it needs
to be, strncpy() pads it with additional '\0' characters, which is
usually wasteful.

It's usually better to use strcpy(), or perhaps memcpy() *after*
making absolutely sure that the target array is big enough.

If you have specific questions, post your actual code and tell us how
it fails.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org
<http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*>
<http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

Aug 30 '06 #4

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
This code is part of a DLL that was created in Visual Studio and hence VS
doesn't always give me the error message. This DLL is being called by an
external program totally outside of Visual Studio.

Actually, I really want to know how to make this dll code run entirely in
Visual Studio so I can get the debugger to work fully as this is Visual
Studio DLL project.

Would I have to create a totally separate project to get all this debugging
to work OR would I just get same unknown error messages I have been getting
when I use the external program?
Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 30 '06 #5

P: n/a
What IDE do the users at this forum "generally" use?

"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>This code is part of a DLL that was created in Visual Studio and hence VS
doesn't always give me the error message. This DLL is being called by an
external program totally outside of Visual Studio.

Actually, I really want to know how to make this dll code run entirely in
Visual Studio so I can get the debugger to work fully as this is Visual
Studio DLL project.

Would I have to create a totally separate project to get all this
debugging
to work OR would I just get same unknown error messages I have been
getting
when I use the external program?

Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org
<http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*>
<http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

Aug 30 '06 #6

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
>>
Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.
Hmm. I'll just explicit-AOL Keith's post, and hope you get the message:

Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.

Mee too!

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 30 '06 #7

P: n/a
smnoff wrote:
What IDE do the users at this forum "generally" use?
Did you read Keith's post?
"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
>>
Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.
--
Ian Collins.
Aug 30 '06 #8

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
What IDE do the users at this forum "generally" use?
This isn't relevant to the C language. Many of use don't use IDE's
at all, and those who do may switch IDE's frequently, depending
on what they want to do or where they are.

I use emacs and gedit for all my code now, depending on whether my
computer has a GUI.

Also, you may find this interesting:
http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/Do...otTheMind.html

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 30 '06 #9

P: n/a
*** Rude top-posting fixed ***
smnoff wrote:
"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
>"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>>This code is part of a DLL that was created in Visual Studio and
hence VS doesn't always give me the error message. This DLL is
being called by an external program totally outside of Visual
Studio.

Actually, I really want to know how to make this dll code run
entirely in Visual Studio so I can get the debugger to work
fully as this is Visual Studio DLL project.

Would I have to create a totally separate project to get all this
debugging to work OR would I just get same unknown error messages
I have been getting when I use the external program?

Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.

What IDE do the users at this forum "generally" use?
Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain. Why do you persist in asking about IDEs
when you have just been told they are off-topic here? Why do you
assume people generally use any IDE whatsoever, when they are
basically just a nuisance?

--
Some informative links:
news:news.announce.newusers
http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
Aug 31 '06 #10

P: n/a

smnoff wrote:
What IDE do the users at this forum "generally" use?

"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
This code is part of a DLL that was created in Visual Studio and hence VS
doesn't always give me the error message. This DLL is being called by an
external program totally outside of Visual Studio.

Actually, I really want to know how to make this dll code run entirely in
Visual Studio so I can get the debugger to work fully as this is Visual
Studio DLL project.

Would I have to create a totally separate project to get all this
debugging
to work OR would I just get same unknown error messages I have been
getting
when I use the external program?
Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

If your IDE is hiding error messages from you, either find a way to
get it to show them to you or get a better IDE. (I don't use IDEs
myself, so perhaps I'm misunderstanding your situation.)

We can help you with C programming language issues here. We can't
help you with any problems you might be having with your IDE; you'll
have to find a different forum for that.
As Keith said, please don't top-post.

I can't speak for other people here, but I use the same IDEs as Keith.

Aug 31 '06 #11

P: n/a
Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.

Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who annoyed by it
didn't
provide a link to what "top-posting" was. That's WHY!

If they wanted something to stop they should take the time to at least copy
and paste a link to what they wanted to stop. Nobody knows what
"top-posting" is as this is the ONLY group that has mentioned it. And by the
way, that top-posting link is wrong, not a single newsgroup
person/user/frequent poster has ever, repeat ever said that was a problem,
It's just this group.
Aug 31 '06 #12

P: n/a
As Keith said, please don't top-post.
>
I can't speak for other people here, but I use the same IDEs as Keith.

And by the way, lots of users of e-mail top-post.
Was it easy to read other people's e-mail when I got started? NO it wasn't
and they didn't give it a name either.
But I had to get used to it.
Aug 31 '06 #13

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.


Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who annoyed by it
didn't
provide a link to what "top-posting" was. That's WHY!
I did.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 31 '06 #14

P: n/a
smnoff wrote:
>
>Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.

Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who
annoyed by it didn't provide a link to what "top-posting" was.
That's WHY!

If they wanted something to stop they should take the time to at
least copy and paste a link to what they wanted to stop. Nobody
knows what "top-posting" is as this is the ONLY group that has
mentioned it. And by the way, that top-posting link is wrong, not
a single newsgroup person/user/frequent poster has ever, repeat
ever said that was a problem, It's just this group.
Both Keith Thompson and myself gave you the following link:

<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>

so that excuse is a bald faced lie. Some groups (mistakenly) will
tolerate top-posting, but it is never correct. Also, don't remove
attributions for material you quote. Attributions are the initial
lines that say: "Joe Blow wrote:"

--
Chuck F (cb********@yahoo.com) (cb********@maineline.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.netUSE maineline address!
Aug 31 '06 #15

P: n/a

"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>>Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.


Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who annoyed by
it
didn't
provide a link to what "top-posting" was. That's WHY!

I did.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org
<http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*>
<http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

It took you forever to give the link as well. But until you did, you didn't
get what you wanted either.


Aug 31 '06 #16

P: n/a

"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:44***************@yahoo.com...
smnoff wrote:
>>
>>Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.

Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who
annoyed by it didn't provide a link to what "top-posting" was.
That's WHY!

If they wanted something to stop they should take the time to at
least copy and paste a link to what they wanted to stop. Nobody
knows what "top-posting" is as this is the ONLY group that has
mentioned it. And by the way, that top-posting link is wrong, not
a single newsgroup person/user/frequent poster has ever, repeat
ever said that was a problem, It's just this group.

Both Keith Thompson and myself gave you the following link:

<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>

so that excuse is a bald faced lie. Some groups (mistakenly) will
tolerate top-posting, but it is never correct. Also, don't remove
attributions for material you quote. Attributions are the initial
lines that say: "Joe Blow wrote:"

--
Chuck F (cb********@yahoo.com) (cb********@maineline.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.netUSE maineline address!


It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago. and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to it
to begin with, period. So it's your fault, period.


Aug 31 '06 #17

P: n/a
[Top-posting again]

smnoff said:
It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago.
No, it should never be necessary to give such a link, and it should never be
necessary to explain to people how to use this group, because they're
supposed to spend a few weeks reading it, so that they can learn by
example.
and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to
it to begin with, period.
No, it's not his job to teach you good manners and common sense. That's your
responsibility, not his.
So it's your fault, period.
No, it's yours.

And now you have two choices - continue to be antagonistic towards the very
people from whom you are seeking expert help, or wise up fast.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Aug 31 '06 #18

P: n/a
smnoff said:
And by the way, lots of users of e-mail top-post.
So what? The stupidity of other people does not mean that contributors to
comp.lang.c have to be stupid too.
Was it easy to read other people's e-mail when I got started? NO it wasn't
Then you should have complained at the time.
and they didn't give it a name either.
But I had to get used to it.
No, you didn't. And you still don't.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Aug 31 '06 #19

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
"Keith Thompson" <ks***@mib.orgwrote in message
news:ln************@nuthaus.mib.org...
>"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
>>>Are you illiterate? Why do you top-post when you have just been
politely asked to refrain.
Cause I didn't know what top-posting meant and all those who annoyed by
it
didn't
provide a link to what "top-posting" was. That's WHY!

I did.

It took you forever to give the link as well. But until you did, you didn't
get what you wanted either.
What are you talking about? You posted Wednesday at 11:31:50 Pacific
time. I posted a followup at 12:27:45, less than an hour later; in that
followup, I wrote:

| Please don't top-post. See <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>.

In any case, you now know what top-posting is, and you know that it's
discouraged in this newsgroup (as it is in most newsgroups).

Shall we get back to discussing C?

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 31 '06 #20

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
"CBFalconer" <cb********@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:44***************@yahoo.com...
[...]
>Both Keith Thompson and myself gave you the following link:

<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>

so that excuse is a bald faced lie. Some groups (mistakenly) will
tolerate top-posting, but it is never correct. Also, don't remove
attributions for material you quote. Attributions are the initial
lines that say: "Joe Blow wrote:"

It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago. and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to it
to begin with, period. So it's your fault, period.
Please don't quote signatures (the tail end of an article, introduced
by "-- ") unless you're actually commenting on them.

groups.google.com shows that you've posted in several threads here,
starting last June. In some of them, you didn't post any followups,
so the question of top-posting didn't arise.

In the thread "Tryiing just to read/understand this code", Brian
("Default User") wrote:

| Please don't top-post. Your replies belong following or interspersed
| with properly trimmed quotes. See the majority of other posts in the
| newsgroup.

which seems clear enough. In a later followup, I wrote:

| Please read <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.htmlfor more
| information.

This all took place on August 8 (that would be "weeks ago") over a
period of about an hour.

When you're wrong, quit arguing. When you've made a mistake, don't
blame your own behavior on the people who are trying to help you
correct it.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 31 '06 #21

P: n/a

"Richard Heathfield" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:J7******************************@bt.com...
[Top-posting again]

smnoff said:
>It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago.

No, it should never be necessary to give such a link, and it should never
be
necessary to explain to people how to use this group, because they're
supposed to spend a few weeks reading it, so that they can learn by
example.
>and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to
it to begin with, period.

No, it's not his job to teach you good manners and common sense. That's
your
responsibility, not his.
>So it's your fault, period.

No, it's yours.

And now you have two choices - continue to be antagonistic towards the
very
people from whom you are seeking expert help, or wise up fast.

I see very few new people following your etiquette. You will continue to
have the same problems over and over and over again. The facts remain, users
don't know what top posting is and you just telling them not top post
doesn't work. Instead of berating new users of not knowing your extremely
unsually etiquette, you can easily copy and paste a link. Notice that no
matter how many existing and regular users agree with you, they will be
wrong just as well cause, new users will do the same as I. Don't believe me?
How about doing a Google search on this group for the word "top post" and
see for your self.

Face up to the fact that new users are always never going to know what top
posting is and will never read the FAQ cause they are not sure if the one
they search for belongs to this newsgroup, nor know which FAQ to read as
there are so many of them. The smart newsgroup constantly have bots that
publish this info. And forums have them PINNED to the top.

Doctors help their patients, but they also spend a lot of time listening to
them.


Aug 31 '06 #22

P: n/a

"Richard Heathfield" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:J7******************************@bt.com...
smnoff said:
>And by the way, lots of users of e-mail top-post.

So what? The stupidity of other people does not mean that contributors to
comp.lang.c have to be stupid too.
>Was it easy to read other people's e-mail when I got started? NO it
wasn't

Then you should have complained at the time.
>and they didn't give it a name either.
But I had to get used to it.

No, you didn't. And you still don't.

When was the last time you ever admitted to being wrong on anything?


Aug 31 '06 #23

P: n/a
smnoff wrote:
"Richard Heathfield" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:J7******************************@bt.com...
>>[Top-posting again]

smnoff said:

>>>It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago.

No, it should never be necessary to give such a link, and it should never
be
necessary to explain to people how to use this group, because they're
supposed to spend a few weeks reading it, so that they can learn by
example.

>>>and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to
it to begin with, period.

No, it's not his job to teach you good manners and common sense. That's
your
responsibility, not his.

>>>So it's your fault, period.

No, it's yours.

And now you have two choices - continue to be antagonistic towards the
very
people from whom you are seeking expert help, or wise up fast.

I see very few new people following your etiquette. You will continue to
have the same problems over and over and over again. The facts remain, users
don't know what top posting is and you just telling them not top post
doesn't work. Instead of berating new users of not knowing your extremely
unsually etiquette, you can easily copy and paste a link. Notice that no
matter how many existing and regular users agree with you, they will be
wrong just as well cause, new users will do the same as I. Don't believe me?
How about doing a Google search on this group for the word "top post" and
see for your self.

Face up to the fact that new users are always never going to know what top
posting is and will never read the FAQ cause they are not sure if the one
they search for belongs to this newsgroup, nor know which FAQ to read as
there are so many of them. The smart newsgroup constantly have bots that
publish this info. And forums have them PINNED to the top.

Doctors help their patients, but they also spend a lot of time listening to
them.
Well said.
Aug 31 '06 #24

P: n/a
smnoff said:

<snip>
I see very few new people following your etiquette. You will continue to
have the same problems over and over and over again. The facts remain,
users don't know what top posting is and you just telling them not top
post doesn't work.
That's why I don't bother telling them.

But when I'm deciding whether or not to answer a question that has arisen
during the course of a discussion, one of the factors affecting that
decision is whether the person concerned has bothered to make his question
easy for me to follow. If his article is particularly awkward to read (e.g.
because he has top-posted, or because he has left in too much context,
making it hard to see his question, or too little context, making his
question incomprehensible), I may simply not bother to answer it. His loss,
not mine. <shrug>

<snip>

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Aug 31 '06 #25

P: n/a
smnoff said:
When was the last time you ever admitted to being wrong on anything?
This morning, in comp.programming.

--
Richard Heathfield
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
http://www.cpax.org.uk
email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
Aug 31 '06 #26

P: n/a
"smnoff" <34**************@hotmail.comwrites:
"Richard Heathfield" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:J7******************************@bt.com...
>[Top-posting again]

smnoff said:
>>It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago.

No, it should never be necessary to give such a link, and it should never
be
necessary to explain to people how to use this group, because they're
supposed to spend a few weeks reading it, so that they can learn by
example.
>>and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to
it to begin with, period.

No, it's not his job to teach you good manners and common sense. That's
your
responsibility, not his.
>>So it's your fault, period.

No, it's yours.

And now you have two choices - continue to be antagonistic towards the
very
people from whom you are seeking expert help, or wise up fast.


I see very few new people following your etiquette. You will continue to
have the same problems over and over and over again.
Thank you for your concern. We'll continue to deal with it, just as
we have been all along. If you have any contructive advice, I'm sure
we'd love to hear it.

I've found that top-posting is discouraged in most of the newsgroups I
read, particularly the technical ones. Conventions may differ in
forums other than Usenet newsgroups, but that's not what we're talking
about here.
The facts
remain, users don't know what top posting is and you just telling
them not top post doesn't work. Instead of berating new users of not
knowing your extremely unsually etiquette, you can easily copy and
paste a link. Notice that no matter how many existing and regular
users agree with you, they will be wrong just as well cause, new
users will do the same as I. Don't believe me? How about doing a
Google search on this group for the word "top post" and see for your
self.
That's exactly why I regularly copy and paste a link to
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>. I have done so in response
to *your* posts at least twice, on August 8 and again on August 30.
It's hardly anyone else's fault if you don't pay attention.

If people have complained to you about top-posting without posting the
link, it's probaby because I had already posted it in the same thread.
Face up to the fact that new users are always never going to know
what top posting is and will never read the FAQ cause they are not
sure if the one they search for belongs to this newsgroup, nor know
which FAQ to read as there are so many of them. The smart newsgroup
constantly have bots that publish this info. And forums have them
PINNED to the top.
The FAQ is auto-posted here, I think twice a month. References to it
are posted all the time. For anyone who manages to miss that, a
Google search for "comp.lang.c faq" turns up <http://c-faq.com/as
the first hit. And it's traditional to browse a newsgroup for a while
before posting; in the old days you had to do this by lurking, but now
you can just use Google Groups to scan the archives.

What problem are you complaining about, and what solution are you
offering?
Doctors help their patients, but they also spend a lot of time
listening to them.
Ok, I'm listening. Do you have anything constructive to say?

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 31 '06 #27

P: n/a

smnoff wrote:
"Richard Heathfield" <in*****@invalid.invalidwrote in message
news:J7******************************@bt.com...
[Top-posting again]

smnoff said:
It took you forever to give the link when it should have been done weeks
ago.
No, it should never be necessary to give such a link, and it should never
be
necessary to explain to people how to use this group, because they're
supposed to spend a few weeks reading it, so that they can learn by
example.
and if I didn't see it, you should have kept redrawing attention to
it to begin with, period.
No, it's not his job to teach you good manners and common sense. That's
your
responsibility, not his.
So it's your fault, period.
No, it's yours.

And now you have two choices - continue to be antagonistic towards the
very
people from whom you are seeking expert help, or wise up fast.


I see very few new people following your etiquette. You will continue to
have the same problems over and over and over again. The facts remain, users
don't know what top posting is and you just telling them not top post
doesn't work. Instead of berating new users of not knowing your extremely
unsually etiquette, you can easily copy and paste a link.
Very true. That's why the first set of people who asked you not to
top-post, and several of the repeat requests, copied and pasted a link
to explain the issue to you. Most new posters have the courtesy to read
such links and follow the advice. Many don't need to since they've
checked up in advance on appropriate behaviour.
Notice that no
matter how many existing and regular users agree with you, they will be
wrong just as well cause, new users will do the same as I. Don't believe me?
How about doing a Google search on this group for the word "top post" and
see for your self.

Face up to the fact that new users are always never going to know what top
posting is and will never read the FAQ cause they are not sure if the one
they search for belongs to this newsgroup, nor know which FAQ to read as
there are so many of them.
Strange how many do what you say they will never do.
The smart newsgroup constantly have bots that
publish this info.
That makes comp.lang.c a smart newsgroup then.
And forums have them PINNED to the top.

Doctors help their patients, but they also spend a lot of time listening to
them.
Sep 1 '06 #28

This discussion thread is closed

Replies have been disabled for this discussion.