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Plzz Explain !!

hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
int l;
int main(O)
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.

Aug 20 '06 #1
40 2117
dev_cool wrote:
hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
int l;
int main(O)
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.
Laid it out a little clearer? Don't know - did my head in working through
it!

I'm sure that someone will soon come along with a better re-write PLUS an
explanation of the algorithm being used here!

Of course, as the values grow this will get into undefined behaviour -
integer overflow etc.

#include<stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
int l = 0;
int n = 1;

for(;;)
{
int i = 2 - l;

if(i)
{
i = n;
}
else
{
printf("%8d", n);

i = 1;
}

if(i)
{
l = l - 1;

if(!(n % l))
{
n = n + 1;

l = n;
}

}
}

return 0;
}
--
==============
*Not a pedant*
==============
Aug 20 '06 #2
dev_cool wrote:
hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
int l;
int main(O)
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.
conio.h is not a standard C header plus the programme
doesn't need it. The main function should be either
main(void) or with the usual 2 arguments ; main(O) is
illegal.

Now that we have dispensed with the technicalities here's
a non-obfuscated rewrite of the programme with initialization
added. I have also replaced the variable O in the original by a
to aid readability.

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
int a = 1 , l=52 ;
while (1) {
/* printf("a is %d l is %d\n",a,l) ; */
if (l != 2) {
if (a == 0) return 0 ;
} else printf("%8d",a) ;
l-- ;
if ( a % l == 0 ) {
a++ ;
l = a ;
}
}
}

The algorithm is straightforward. Just remove the
comments from the printf line , run it and everything
will become clear.

Note that the initial value of l cannot be 1. If l is negative
then -l must be smaller than a for the programme to work
correctly. Otherwise the initial value of l does not matter
which causes surprise in the initial obfuscated version
of the programme. I imagine it was an intended effect.

Spiros Bousbouras

Aug 20 '06 #3
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?
Hint: It doesn't.
/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
Non-standard, unused header.
int l;
Global variable - bad style.
int main(O)
Syntax error.
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
Poor spacing, and many more syntax errors.
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.
Use proper grammer. It will make people believe you have an IQ over
20, something that as of now most people don't. "Plzz" is not a word,
nor is "i", "abt", "thx", or "dev". Also, you forgot to capitalize
all too frequently.

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 20 '06 #4
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
Poor spacing, and many more syntax errors.
Actually no , this part works just fine. And the code
is obviously intentionally obfuscated so it seems a
bit silly to complain about poor spacing.

Aug 20 '06 #5
sp****@gmail.com wrote:
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
Poor spacing, and many more syntax errors.

Actually no , this part works just fine.
To be more precise it works if O has been declared
as an int variable. I assume that in whatever compiler
the opening poster used to compile the code , writing
int main(O) defines O as an int.

Aug 20 '06 #6
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
>int main(O)
Syntax error.
It's an old-style definition of main(), with a single parameter named O
(uppercase o). Its type is not specified, which is a constraint violation
in C99, and in C89 it defaults to int, so the behaviour is undefined
because main() should take either zero or two parameters. It is not a
syntax error either way, though.
Aug 20 '06 #7
sp****@gmail.com wrote:
sp****@gmail.com wrote:
>Andrew Poelstra wrote:
>>"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
Poor spacing, and many more syntax errors.
Actually no , this part works just fine.

To be more precise it works if O has been declared
as an int variable. I assume that in whatever compiler
the opening poster used to compile the code , writing
int main(O) defines O as an int.
Actually it is an old style function definition where the types of the
parameters were declared outside the parenthesis and the implicit int
allowing you to not bother specifying a type at all if it was an int
parameter (implicit int has been removed in C99). The problem is that
the standard defined main as taking either no parameters or two
parameters, it does not define it as taking one parameter.
--
Flash Gordon
Still sigless on this computer.
Aug 20 '06 #8

"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@74g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
int l;
int main(O)
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.
I am not surprised.

A readable for() loop is always in the form

for(i=0;i<N;i++)
{
/* loop body executed N times, with i ranging from 0 to N-1 */
}

However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.
--
www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm
freeware games to download.
Aug 20 '06 #9
"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.
How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 21 '06 #10
Andrew Poelstra <ap*******@false.sitewrites:
"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
>However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.

How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
The first clause, ch, just evaluates ch and throws away the result.

The second clause, ch != EOF, is evaluated at the top of the loop,
before ch has been assigned a value, because the assignment
"ch = getc(fh)" is in the third clause.

The usual idiom is

while ((ch = getc(fh)) != EOF)

There's only one clause (though a moderately complex one), so a while
loop is just the thing.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 21 '06 #11
Malcolm wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@74g2000cwt.googlegrou ps.com...
>hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
int l;
int main(O)
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.
I am not surprised.

A readable for() loop is always in the form

for(i=0;i<N;i++)
{
/* loop body executed N times, with i ranging from 0 to N-1 */
}
That is a matter of opinion. I find loops of the form
for (node=start; node!=NULL; node = node->next) {
/* Loop body executed for all nodes */
}

to be readable as well.
However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
I agree that this is a stupid thing to do.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.
In general I would agree with you.
--
Flash Gordon
Still sigless on this computer.
Aug 21 '06 #12
Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.orgwrites:
Andrew Poelstra <ap*******@false.sitewrites:
>"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
>>However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.

How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.

The first clause, ch, just evaluates ch and throws away the result.

The second clause, ch != EOF, is evaluated at the top of the loop,
before ch has been assigned a value, because the assignment
"ch = getc(fh)" is in the third clause.

The usual idiom is

while ((ch = getc(fh)) != EOF)

There's only one clause (though a moderately complex one), so a while
loop is just the thing.
ch = getc (fh);
for (ctr = 0; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh), ctr++)
{
/* ctr is a "elegantly" coded counter here. */
}

I wouldn't do that, but OTOH I wouldn't mind reading it in other people's
code.

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 21 '06 #13
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.orgwrites:
Andrew Poelstra <ap*******@false.sitewrites:
>
How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
The first clause, ch, just evaluates ch and throws away the result.

The second clause, ch != EOF, is evaluated at the top of the loop,
before ch has been assigned a value, because the assignment
"ch = getc(fh)" is in the third clause.

The usual idiom is

while ((ch = getc(fh)) != EOF)

There's only one clause (though a moderately complex one), so a while
loop is just the thing.

ch = getc (fh);
for (ctr = 0; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh), ctr++)
{
/* ctr is a "elegantly" coded counter here. */
}
If you're going to do that you may as well right it as
for (ch = getc(fh) , ctr = 0 ; ch != EOF ; ch = getc(fh), ctr++)

I find displeasing the fact that ch = getc(fh) gets repeated
twice which you avoid with the while version but pleasing
the fact that ctr and ch get initialized and updated next to
each other , something you again don't get with the while
version.

Aug 21 '06 #14
Dear Andrew,
Thankz for replying. First of all, I didn't remember if I ever said
that I've an iq over 20 nor that I think its a group of learning
english....and I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me. Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs...u helped me thx a lot....don't expect anything more.
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
hello everybody,
i'm a new member of this group, this is my first ever post. i've found
a c program that prints prime numbers through an infinite loop. But I
really don't understand the code. Anybody plzz explain how the code
works?

Hint: It doesn't.
/******here is the code*****/
#include<stdio.h>
#include<conio.h>
Non-standard, unused header.
int l;
Global variable - bad style.
int main(O)
Syntax error.
{
for(;2-l?O:printf("%8d",O);l=O%--l?l:++O);
Poor spacing, and many more syntax errors.
return 0;
}
/*******program ends*******/

Plzz help me, I cannot figure out anything abt this code. thx in
advance.

Use proper grammer. It will make people believe you have an IQ over
20, something that as of now most people don't. "Plzz" is not a word,
nor is "i", "abt", "thx", or "dev". Also, you forgot to capitalize
all too frequently.

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 21 '06 #15
Thankz harald, your post actually explains a lot.

Harald van Dijk wrote:
Andrew Poelstra wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
int main(O)
Syntax error.

It's an old-style definition of main(), with a single parameter named O
(uppercase o). Its type is not specified, which is a constraint violation
in C99, and in C89 it defaults to int, so the behaviour is undefined
because main() should take either zero or two parameters. It is not a
syntax error either way, though.
Aug 21 '06 #16
sp****@gmail.com wrote:
If you're going to do that you may as well right it as
for (ch = getc(fh) , ctr = 0 ; ch != EOF ; ch = getc(fh), ctr++)

I find displeasing the fact that ch = getc(fh) gets repeated
twice which you avoid with the while version but pleasing
the fact that ctr and ch get initialized and updated next to
each other , something you again don't get with the while
version.
for (ctr = 0 ; (ch = getc(fh)) != EOF ; ctr++)

--
pete
Aug 21 '06 #17
dev_cool wrote:
>
Thankz for replying. First of all, I didn't remember if I ever said
that I've an iq over 20 nor that I think its a group of learning
english....and I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me. Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs...u helped me thx a lot....don't expect anything more.
You need to learn to post properly, which means not top-posting,
and snipping quotations not germane to your reply. Also, this
cool-dude speak does not cut it here. Use proper English and
spelling, up to your abilities (people will make allowance for
language barriers). These silly abbreviations, u, ppl, 4, etc.
just make your article hard to read.

Some informative links:
news:news.announce.newusers
http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

--
Chuck F (cb********@yahoo.com) (cb********@maineline.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.netUSE maineline address!
Aug 21 '06 #18
dev_cool wrote:
Thankz harald, your post actually explains a lot.
Please don't top-post. Your replies belong following or interspersed
with properly trimmed quotes. See the majority of other posts in the
newsgroup, or:
<http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>

Brian
Aug 21 '06 #19
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
Dear Andrew,
Thankz for replying. First of all, I didn't remember if I ever said
that I've an iq over 20 nor that I think its a group of learning
english....and I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me. Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs...u helped me thx a lot....don't expect anything more.
Watch this:

------------------
Dear Andrew,
Thanks for replying. First of all, I don't remember if I've said
that I have an IQ greater than 20, nor do I think that this is a
group for learning English. I simply don't care what people like you
who have a greater IQ think of me: It's enough for you to know that
I come here to solve my C problems. You've helped me a lot, so thanks,
and I don't expect anything more.
------------------

Note that had you used proper grammar, only the first and last
sentences would be necessary. Also, my version can be read in
about 5 seconds, whereas yours took me over twice as long. Your
message is written once, but read many times.

Chuck Falconer has pointed out many other problems with this post
and provided links to help you.

--
Andrew Poelstra <http://www.wpsoftware.net/projects>
To reach me by email, use `apoelstra' at the above domain.
"Do BOTH ends of the cable need to be plugged in?" -Anon.
Aug 21 '06 #20
Andrew Poelstra wrote:

<snipped grammar lesson>

Oh god! Give it a break - cbfalconer has already
covered this in proper detail, as you yourself point
out below!
Chuck Falconer has pointed out many other problems with this post
and provided links to help you.
goose,
Give the poster time to change habits before
starting off on the second lesson
Aug 21 '06 #21
In article <11*********************@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups. com>,
dev_cool <su*******@gmail.comwrote:
>I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me.
People are more likely to help you if they can read your messages
reasonably easily, and if it appears that you have put effort into
communicating your problem and communicating what you have done
to solve the problem so far.

If your message is unnecessarily difficult to understand because
you have not put effort into communicating it, then many people
will simply not bother to answer. Clear communications from
you increases your chances of getting a usable response.

>Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs
What you need to know about this process is that
a) nearly all of us here are humans, with human biases and
human frailties; and
b) nearly all of us here are volunteering our time and skills
when we respond.

We are not a free resource that may be arbitrarily taken
advantage of: your question *as phrased* has to -interest- us
enough to volunteer our time. You need to persuade us that your
question is interesting enough to bother with.

Historically speaking, most people who have continued to post
using abbreviations such as "ppl" after the style has been
pointed out to them, have tended to fall into one of several categories:

1) students [or sometimes beginning programmers] who are hoping or
expecting that we will literally do their work for them. These people
seldom have anything to contribute back in return... and usually ask
questions that have been answered over and over and over again in the
past.

2) people who enjoy being disruptive ("trolls"). Some of these people
do have skills that are (or could be) used constructively

3) people who have poor social or communication skills. These people
may not realize the problems they trigger, or may observe the
disruption they trigger but believe it to be a case of the other people
always being unreasonable. Sometimes these people know quite a lot but
get on everyone's nerves because of the -way- they say things

4) people who are so certain of their knowledge or their "rights"
that they feel that everyone else should adapt to them
For the most part, the people who come here to learn "as much
as they can", or to offer their knowledge to others, fairly quickly
realize that they and others learn more when they make their
communications clear.
--
Okay, buzzwords only. Two syllables, tops. -- Laurie Anderson
Aug 21 '06 #22
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
Thankz for replying. First of all, I didn't remember if I ever said
that I've an iq over 20 nor that I think its a group of learning
english....and I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me. Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs...u helped me thx a lot....don't expect anything more.
Several other posters have pointed out the problems with your posting
style (top-posting and silly abbreviations that make your posts very
difficult to read). You say you don't care what people think about
you, but that's not the point. If you persist in posting like this,
you will not get any help here. These are not arbitrary rules that we
enforce for the fun of it; they are guidelines that make it easier for
us to help you. If you choose to ignore them, we will ignore you, and
this newsgroup will be of no further use to you.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 21 '06 #23
Keith Thompson wrote:
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
Thankz for replying. First of all, I didn't remember if I ever said
that I've an iq over 20 nor that I think its a group of learning
english....and I simply don't care what ppl like u who have a greater
iq what think abt me. Its enough 4 u to know that I come here 4 solving
my c probs...u helped me thx a lot....don't expect anything more.

Several other posters have pointed out the problems with your posting
style (top-posting and silly abbreviations that make your posts very
difficult to read). You say you don't care what people think about
you, but that's not the point. If you persist in posting like this,
you will not get any help here. These are not arbitrary rules that we
enforce for the fun of it; they are guidelines that make it easier for
us to help you. If you choose to ignore them, we will ignore you, and
this newsgroup will be of no further use to you.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

Thanks Keith for your poster. Also Thanks to Default User for the
valueable link <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.htmland CBFalconer.
Actually I didn't know the meaning of "Topposting" until and unless I
read the article in that link. Thanks also go to other people who tried
to help me.

But let me tell you something. In my very first post, I wrote that it
was my first ever post in this group. I didn't have any idea about your
usenet groups' rules. Whenever I go to any USA related website or chat
or even some other groups, I always observed words in their shortest
form like "ppl" instead of "people", "thx" instead of "thanks" etc. So
I thought you people like to write in this manner.If you really want to
communicate in proper language, make an universal standard of your
language first.

I also wrote that I found that C code, I didn't say I wrote it myself.
But some of you person like Andrew thought it was me and criticised me
for writing wrong syntax etc. Let me tell you one thing straight, I
ofcourse shall try to rectify myself, but you people also
should try to make your mind flexible enough and try to understand that
English is not the language of all the people in the whole world.

Walter Roberson wrote:-
========================
What you need to know about this process is that
a) nearly all of us here are humans, with human biases and
human frailties; and
b) nearly all of us here are volunteering our time and skills
when we respond.

We are not a free resource that may be arbitrarily taken
advantage of: your question *as phrased* has to -interest- us
enough to volunteer our time. You need to persuade us that your
question is interesting enough to bother with.

Historically speaking, most people who have continued to post
using abbreviations such as "ppl" after the style has been
pointed out to them, have tended to fall into one of several
categories:

1) students [or sometimes beginning programmers] who are hoping or
expecting that we will literally do their work for them. These people
seldom have anything to contribute back in return... and usually ask
questions that have been answered over and over and over again in the
past.

2) people who enjoy being disruptive ("trolls"). Some of these people
do have skills that are (or could be) used constructively

3) people who have poor social or communication skills. These people
may not realize the problems they trigger, or may observe the
disruption they trigger but believe it to be a case of the other people
always being unreasonable. Sometimes these people know quite a lot but
get on everyone's nerves because of the -way- they say things

4) people who are so certain of their knowledge or their "rights"
that they feel that everyone else should adapt to them.

Thanks Walter for your valueable remarks. But you also need to
understand that as we are humans, it is natural that "To err is human".
As for my part, I shall try my best to improve my communication skill.
But you also need to understand some points:-

(1)As I already said- English is not the language of all the people in
the whole world. Surely its the language of communication of this group
and I try to write properly as much as I can, but as it is not my
mother tongue(which is Bengali), I cannot write like you ....you need
to accept that.

(2)Historically speaking, people who started to use the word "ppl" and
still using like that are mostly Americans that is your
countrymen...you need to accept this fact...because its true!! So look
at yourself before you split on others.

(3) I will not argue about the groups or categories you devide, because
I think its a brainwork comes from geeks like you. But you need to
understand one thing, if you cannot pay respect others, never expect
the same from others.

(4)Finally, I know that you come here for a voluntary work, fine. I
also come here for the same. Because as I'm gaining knowledge from your
posts, you may also have to face some interesting problems from my
posts, so its a two-way traffic. And one more thing, I don't need to
persuade you about anything. If you don't like my question thats fine,
you can always ignore it. There may be some other person who may like
it and post a reply. Or you may ignore it. Thats your choice. I have no
problem. I try my best to find an answer of my question, if I get it
here fine. If I cannot then also its fine.

*********Open your eyes and free your mind to expand your world, Or,
close the doors and windows so that truth may never enter your
room***********

Aug 22 '06 #24
dev_cool wrote:
(1)As I already said- English is not the language of all the people in
the whole world. Surely its the language of communication of this group
and I try to write properly as much as I can, but as it is not my
mother tongue(which is Bengali), I cannot write like you ....you need
to accept that.
There is a marked difference between beginner's English and silly
abbreviations. The former is accepted without criticism, but silly
abbreviations are different, they make your post harder for just about
everyone (often more so for non-native speakers) to read what you have
written.

--
Ian Collins.
Aug 22 '06 #25
dev_cool wrote:
But let me tell you something. In my very first post, I wrote that it
was my first ever post in this group. I didn't have any idea about your
usenet groups' rules. Whenever I go to any USA related website or chat
or even some other groups, I always observed words in their shortest
form like "ppl" instead of "people", "thx" instead of "thanks" etc. So
I thought you people like to write in this manner.If you really want to
communicate in proper language, make an universal standard of your
language first.
It depends on the context you see. Certain words or choices of
words are appropriate for one context but not another and that
goes beyond their meaning. For example "fuck" and "make love"
both have the same meaning but there are situations where "fuck"
would be more appropriate than "make love" and other situations
where "make love" would be more appropriate than "fuck".

Similarly "kick the bucket" and "pass away" also mean the same
thing , die , but again they are appropriate in different contexts.

Abbreviations like "ppl" , "thx" etc. are perfectly appropriate in
the context of friendly random chat and there are places on the
net devoted to that. But this newgroup is dedicated to technical
discussion so they are not appropriate in such a context.

As a rule of thumb when you find yourself in places where technical
discussion takes place you should try to imagine what words you
would be using if you were studying in an English speaking university
and were writing an essay and use similar words.

Nevertheless , even here you will find that occasionally people find
themselves in a playful mood so they may use "silly" words or
expressions in that particular context. Like for example "edumacate"
that someone used recently which , in case you didn't know , is
a humorous substitute for "educate". If you stick around , you'll
soon get a feel for when it's time for fun and games and when it's
time for serious discussion.

Which , by the way , is what's wrong with things like "plz" and
similar. It's not the fact that they are abbreviations because regulars
here use abbreviations all the time. It's the fact that they don't
fit with the mood of a serious discussion.

HTH (hope that helps).

Spiros Bousbouras

Aug 22 '06 #26
sp****@gmail.com wrote:
dev_cool wrote:
But let me tell you something. In my very first post, I wrote that it
was my first ever post in this group. I didn't have any idea about your
usenet groups' rules. Whenever I go to any USA related website or chat
or even some other groups, I always observed words in their shortest
form like "ppl" instead of "people", "thx" instead of "thanks" etc. So
I thought you people like to write in this manner.If you really want to
communicate in proper language, make an universal standard of your
language first.

It depends on the context you see. Certain words or choices of
words are appropriate for one context but not another and that
goes beyond their meaning. For example "fuck" and "make love"
both have the same meaning but there are situations where "fuck"
would be more appropriate than "make love" and other situations
where "make love" would be more appropriate than "fuck".

Similarly "kick the bucket" and "pass away" also mean the same
thing , die , but again they are appropriate in different contexts.

Abbreviations like "ppl" , "thx" etc. are perfectly appropriate in
the context of friendly random chat and there are places on the
net devoted to that. But this newgroup is dedicated to technical
discussion so they are not appropriate in such a context.

As a rule of thumb when you find yourself in places where technical
discussion takes place you should try to imagine what words you
would be using if you were studying in an English speaking university
and were writing an essay and use similar words.

Nevertheless , even here you will find that occasionally people find
themselves in a playful mood so they may use "silly" words or
expressions in that particular context. Like for example "edumacate"
that someone used recently which , in case you didn't know , is
a humorous substitute for "educate". If you stick around , you'll
soon get a feel for when it's time for fun and games and when it's
time for serious discussion.

Which , by the way , is what's wrong with things like "plz" and
similar. It's not the fact that they are abbreviations because regulars
here use abbreviations all the time. It's the fact that they don't
fit with the mood of a serious discussion.

HTH (hope that helps).

Spiros Bousbouras
Thanks you a lot Spiros. Yes that helps a lot to clear the cloud. I
hope I can learn something from you in near future as well my friend.

Aug 22 '06 #27
In article <11*********************@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups. com>,
dev_cool <su*******@gmail.comwrote:
>(2)Historically speaking, people who started to use the word "ppl" and
still using like that are mostly Americans that is your
countrymen...
"Americans" are not *my* "countrymen" -- I'm from Canada.
>you need to accept this fact...because its true!! So look
at yourself before you split on others.
The question is not who started it, but rather who -continues- it.

You have been advised, through several different phrasings, that
a number of the people here are much less likely to respond to
you if you continue to use abbreviations such as "ppl" now that
you have been informed about it. Is your primary interest in
your right to express yourself however you feel, or is your primary
interest in learning about C?

>(3) I will not argue about the groups or categories you devide, because
I think its a brainwork comes from geeks like you. But you need to
understand one thing, if you cannot pay respect others, never expect
the same from others.
If I did not respect you, then I would not have spent the time
explaining to you why it is to your advantage to use full words
rather than abbreviations. My assumption was that you would be able
to learn from what I wrote: I respected your ability to learn.
If I had not respected you, then I would not have bothered to reply.

>And one more thing, I don't need to
persuade you about anything. If you don't like my question thats fine,
you can always ignore it. There may be some other person who may like
it and post a reply. Or you may ignore it. Thats your choice. I have no
problem. I try my best to find an answer of my question, if I get it
here fine. If I cannot then also its fine.
In my opinion, you would not be "trying your best" to find an
answer to your questions if you were to knowingly use sloppy
writing when you posted the question.
The quality of your writing appears to have improved noticably. If
you continue to use full sentances and continue to use full words
instead of abbreviations, then people are more likely to take the time
to read your postings.

>And one more thing, I don't need to
persuade you about anything. If you don't like my question thats fine,
you can always ignore it. There may be some other person who may like
it and post a reply.
I have been using this form of communication for more than 25 years.
In that time, I have seen many many technical questions go
completely unanswered. I have offered you advise based upon
my observations of which questions get answers and which
questions get no answers.
--
"No one has the right to destroy another person's belief by
demanding empirical evidence." -- Ann Landers
Aug 22 '06 #28
"dev_cool" <su*******@gmail.comwrites:
[...]
Thanks Keith for your poster. Also Thanks to Default User for the
valueable link <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.htmland CBFalconer.
Actually I didn't know the meaning of "Topposting" until and unless I
read the article in that link. Thanks also go to other people who tried
to help me.

But let me tell you something. In my very first post, I wrote that it
was my first ever post in this group. I didn't have any idea about your
usenet groups' rules. Whenever I go to any USA related website or chat
or even some other groups, I always observed words in their shortest
form like "ppl" instead of "people", "thx" instead of "thanks" etc. So
I thought you people like to write in this manner.If you really want to
communicate in proper language, make an universal standard of your
language first.
[snip]

Rather than responding point by point, I'll make some general comments.

Our only objection was to your initial use of chatroom-style
abbreviations like "u", "ppl", and so forth. I understand that you
didn't know this newsgroup's conventions before you came here (though
you could have found out by browsing the group before posting). Now
you do. When you were asked to write in proper English, your initial
reaction was, um, less than constructive. I'm delighted to see that
you've now chosen to write properly -- and, since you say English
isn't your first language, I'm impressed by your skill with it. You
write English a *lot* better than I write anything other than English.

Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A: Bilingual.
Q: What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
A: American.

By the way, this is not an American newsgroup. People post here from
all over the world. And nobody is going to complain if your spelling
or grammar isn't perfect, as long as you make a reasonable effort.

I know there are different writing styles on many web sites and chat
rooms -- but we in this newsgroup are not responsible for that.

We all make mistakes -- and if you make mistakes here, especially in
any C code that you post, you can expect to have them pointed out.
Don't take it personally.

Welcome.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 22 '06 #29
dev_cool wrote:
>
.... snip ...
>
Thanks Keith for your poster. Also Thanks to Default User for the
valueable link <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.htmland
CBFalconer. Actually I didn't know the meaning of "Topposting"
until and unless I read the article in that link. Thanks also go
to other people who tried to help me.
That's all right, and welcome to the group. The point of
correcting people is that they should learn, which makes for a more
usable newsgroup for all. Some immediately get all excited and
defensive; I am glad to see you did not.

--
Chuck F (cb********@yahoo.com) (cb********@maineline.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.netUSE maineline address!
Aug 22 '06 #30
Keith Thompson wrote:

<snip>
By the way, this is not an American newsgroup. People post here from
all over the world.
Indeed not. We currently have at least one Englishman in here posting
from India.
And nobody is going to complain if your spelling
or grammar isn't perfect, as long as you make a reasonable effort.
Well, people will still sometimes point out errors, but generally it is
either to help you improve your skills or in fun. You will also spot
native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
as me pointing out that Keith should not have started a sentence with a
conjunction ;-)

<snip>
We all make mistakes -- and if you make mistakes here, especially in
any C code that you post, you can expect to have them pointed out.
Don't take it personally.
"Don't take it personally," is probably the biggest single thing to help
you get on here. Together with, "never put down to malice that which
could be explained by..." There are several alternatives, ignorance,
stupidity and the most common is simple differences in culture. So just
because it might look to you like someone is "having a go at you"
doesn't mean they are.
--
Flash Gordon
Posting from India.
Aug 22 '06 #31
Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.ukwrote:
native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
^^

(I couldn't resist. <g Hopefully this post is error-free...)

--
C. Benson Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
cbmanica(at)gmail.com | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
Aug 22 '06 #32
Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@norge.freeshell.orgwrites:
Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.ukwrote:
>native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
^^

(I couldn't resist. <g Hopefully this post is error-free...)
Ok, I'll play too.

The phrase "error free" doesn't need a hyphen. "Hopefully" means "in
a hopeful manner"; its common use to mean "it is to be hoped" is
disputed by many experts. An ellipsis denotes elided text, not the
end of a sentence. (I *think* the ellipsis should be preceded by a
space, but I'm not certain.) Your use of a single space before the
"<g>" and a double space after it is inconsistent. Your "^^" marker
is not correctly aligned with the word "on". You failed to note
Flash's misspelling of "grammatical". You also failed to note that
Flash's errors were probably a deliberate joke.

To anyone who thinks my postings here are overly pedantic, keep this
in mind: I usually restrain myself.

8-)} 8-)} 8-)}

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 22 '06 #33
Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.orgwrites:
Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@norge.freeshell.orgwrites:
>Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.ukwrote:
>>native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
^^

(I couldn't resist. <g Hopefully this post is error-free...)

Ok, I'll play too.

The phrase "error free" doesn't need a hyphen. "Hopefully" means "in
a hopeful manner"; its common use to mean "it is to be hoped" is
disputed by many experts. An ellipsis denotes elided text, not the
end of a sentence. (I *think* the ellipsis should be preceded by a
space, but I'm not certain.) Your use of a single space before the
"<g>" and a double space after it is inconsistent. Your "^^" marker
is not correctly aligned with the word "on". You failed to note
Flash's misspelling of "grammatical". You also failed to note that
Flash's errors were probably a deliberate joke.

To anyone who thinks my postings here are overly pedantic, keep this
in mind: I usually restrain myself.

8-)} 8-)} 8-)}
That's odd. I just noticed that the "^^" *was* correctly aligned with
the word "on" in Christopher's article; it was misaligned only in my
followup. There were no tab characters that would explain this.

I guess that counts as the mandatory error in any posting complaining
about an error made by another.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks***@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center <* <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
Aug 22 '06 #34
Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.orgwrote:
That's odd. I just noticed that the "^^" *was* correctly aligned with
the word "on" in Christopher's article; it was misaligned only in my
followup. There were no tab characters that would explain this.
It seems that your newsreader quotes text by prepending ">" to
already-quoted lines and "" to unquoted lines, which is where the
discrepancy arose. That actually makes deep replies easier to read,
at the expense of altering text alignment.

--
C. Benson Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
cbmanica(at)gmail.com | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
Aug 22 '06 #35
Keith Thompson wrote:
Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@norge.freeshell.orgwrites:
>Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.ukwrote:
>>native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
^^

(I couldn't resist. <g Hopefully this post is error-free...)

Ok, I'll play too.
See, all in fun.

<snip>
Flash's misspelling of "grammatical". You also failed to note that
Flash's errors were probably a deliberate joke.
I did indeed ensure the post contained errors. I'll just not tell you
whether they were *all* deliberate ;-)
To anyone who thinks my postings here are overly pedantic, keep this
in mind: I usually restrain myself.

8-)} 8-)} 8-)}
:-)
--
Flash Gordon
Aug 23 '06 #36
Keith Thompson <ks***@mib.orgwrote:
Christopher Benson-Manica <at***@norge.freeshell.orgwrites:
Flash Gordon <sp**@flash-gordon.me.ukwrote:
native English speakers making gramatical and spelling errors including
at least on error whenever pointing out an error made by another. Such
^^

(I couldn't resist. <g Hopefully this post is error-free...)

Ok, I'll play too.

The phrase "error free" doesn't need a hyphen. "Hopefully" means "in
a hopeful manner"; its common use to mean "it is to be hoped" is
disputed by many experts. An ellipsis denotes elided text, not the
end of a sentence. (I *think* the ellipsis should be preceded by a
space, but I'm not certain.) Your use of a single space before the
"<g>" and a double space after it is inconsistent. Your "^^" marker
is not correctly aligned with the word "on". You failed to note
Flash's misspelling of "grammatical". You also failed to note that
Flash's errors were probably a deliberate joke.
There is a Usenet law, and it is rarely broken:

Every post which corrects a typo or grammar error shall itself contain
at least one error of the same kind.

Note that I'm not correcting any errors in Keith's post, so this post is
not (necessarily) subject to the same law.

Richard
Aug 23 '06 #37

"Andrew Poelstra" <ap*******@false.sitewrote in message
news:m3************@wpsoftware.net...
"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
>However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the
statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.

How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
Horrible. Fortran "for" wouldn't allow it.
My view is that for loops are for when you know the number of iterations on
loop entry. If it is some sort of dynamic condition, while() makes more
sense.
This is inherent inthe English language meaning of the words.
for fifteen times, do this
while some condition or other holds, do that.
--
www.personal.leeds.ac.uk/~bgy1mm
freeware games to download.

Aug 23 '06 #38
Malcolm wrote:
"Andrew Poelstra" <ap*******@false.sitewrote in message
news:m3************@wpsoftware.net...
>"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
>>However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the
statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.
How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
Horrible. Fortran "for" wouldn't allow it.
My view is that for loops are for when you know the number of iterations on
loop entry. If it is some sort of dynamic condition, while() makes more
sense.
This is inherent inthe English language meaning of the words.
for fifteen times, do this
Dot really. For all the elements of the list... For all the characters
in the file... For every valid input provided by the user...

For in English is used for lots of things.
while some condition or other holds, do that.
That is not how I would talk in English about processing a file or a
linked lists or many other things.
--
Flash Gordon
Aug 24 '06 #39

Malcolm wrote:
"Andrew Poelstra" <ap*******@false.sitewrote in message
news:m3************@wpsoftware.net...
"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrites:
However C will allow you to put absolutely anything within the
statements.
The loop terminates when the middle bit evaluates to zero. So you can do
stupid things like putting printf()s in the condition.
Occasionally you will see for loops used sensibly with compex conditions,
but only very occasionally. My own view is that it is never the correct
thing to put operations with non- control side-effects in a for loop, but
other regulars may disagree for a few exceptional situations.
How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
Horrible. Fortran "for" wouldn't allow it.
My view is that for loops are for when you know the number of iterations on
loop entry. If it is some sort of dynamic condition, while() makes more
sense.
This is inherent inthe English language meaning of the words.
I'll have to remember that the next time I ask my
son to clean up his room while I'm at work.

Aug 24 '06 #40
"Malcolm" <re*******@btinternet.comwrote:
"Andrew Poelstra" <ap*******@false.sitewrote in message
How do you feel about

for (ch; ch != EOF; ch = getc (fh))

Or variations on the theme? This extends nicely if you want to add a
variable to keep track of how many bytes are read.
Horrible. Fortran "for" wouldn't allow it.
Yeah, and it isn't in BASIC, either. Isn't it just _awful_?
My view is that for loops are for when you know the number of iterations on
loop entry. If it is some sort of dynamic condition, while() makes more
sense.
You use for when you run over a specific set; whether that set is a
subset of the integers or a linked list is immaterial. You use while
when you depend on a condition that doesn't involve a set of objects.
This is inherent inthe English language meaning of the words.
for fifteen times, do this
That's dialectal English, though. I never hear that outside parodies of
the Southern Belle accent. Normally, one would use "do this fifteen
times", not "do this _for_ fifteen times". By contrast, one _would_ say
"do this for all items in this box" or "do this for all guests who
arrive".

Richard
Aug 24 '06 #41

This thread has been closed and replies have been disabled. Please start a new discussion.

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by: ArrayDB | last post by:
The error message I've encountered is; ERROR:root:Error generating model response: exception: access violation writing 0x0000000000005140, which seems to be indicative of an access violation...
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by: Defcon1945 | last post by:
I'm trying to learn Python using Pycharm but import shutil doesn't work
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by: Shællîpôpï 09 | last post by:
If u are using a keypad phone, how do u turn on JavaScript, to access features like WhatsApp, Facebook, Instagram....
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by: af34tf | last post by:
Hi Guys, I have a domain whose name is BytesLimited.com, and I want to sell it. Does anyone know about platforms that allow me to list my domain in auction for free. Thank you
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by: Faith0G | last post by:
I am starting a new it consulting business and it's been a while since I setup a new website. Is wordpress still the best web based software for hosting a 5 page website? The webpages will be...

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