Is Being Rude and Condescending a Legitimate Way to Attract New C++ Programmers?

[JustBoo]

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

"Design and programming are human activities; forget that
and all is lost." - Bjarne Stroustrup

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here." (South Park Bar anyone?)
Does this help C++? Does this help the C++ Community? Or, in fact,
does it help the "competition." [Term used loosely.] I could
cut-and-paste many examples, but that would just cause a flame war,
so I won't.

I have been posting on usenet since 1994, I completely understand the
"useful info to noise ratio" problem. Or, at least the perception of
it. But, I suggest telling people to just bugger-off and go to a dead
newsgroup for non-existent help leaves people with negative feelings
about the language and the people who use it. I'm not kidding. Study a
bit of psychology before you get your hackles up and do the crusty-old
"Hrrummppff" deal.

I work for a large company, I have to deal with new people all the
time. Insulting them never helps. Never. I am not a patient person by
nature (what an understatement) but, you have to be if you want to
keep new people engaged and ENTHUSIASTIC.

I could go on, but I believe - literally - some of the most
intelligent people on earth frequent this news group. I hope
they see what I am getting at here.

Thank you and we'll leave the porch light on for ya'. :-)

"I prefer the errors of enthusiasm to the indifference of wisdom."
- Anatole France

[Josh Mcfarlane]

JustBoo wrote:

I have been posting on usenet since 1994, I completely understand the
"useful info to noise ratio" problem. Or, at least the perception of
it. But, I suggest telling people to just bugger-off and go to a dead
newsgroup for non-existent help leaves people with negative feelings
about the language and the people who use it. I'm not kidding. Study a
bit of psychology before you get your hackles up and do the crusty-old
"Hrrummppff" deal.

The group will offer help on those things that deal with what they
know. If it's outside of C++, we'll direct them elsewhere. If the other
group is dead, they're more than happy to use Google.

Telling people incorrect information will leave them with even worse
negative feelings. If we have one person here who knows
ObscureAPIReference10034, and he gets it wrong, who's going to correct
them? The user will go away with invalid information. On the other
hand, if a user posts an incorrect thing about C++, such as I've been
known to get slightly wrong at times, another person will come up
behind me and correct me, keeping the person that originally asked the
question from taking away wrong information.

If a specific user is being unreasonably rude, then that's a problem
with their voice, not that of the newsgroup as a whole. However, you
can't expect this group to turn into everything that touches C++ in any
vague way.

Josh McFarlane

[roberts.noah]

JustBoo wrote:

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

"Design and programming are human activities; forget that
and all is lost." - Bjarne Stroustrup

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here." (South Park Bar anyone?)
Does this help C++? Does this help the C++ Community? Or, in fact,
does it help the "competition." [Term used loosely.] I could
cut-and-paste many examples, but that would just cause a flame war,
so I won't.

You mean like this one?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....1ecd8e04739f8b

I think maybe you're just a little too touchy, trigger happy, and a bit
on the vindictive side when you feel offended to be lecturing others on
abuse. Clean your own house first buddy.

[mlimber]

[e-mail] wrote:

JustBoo wrote:

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

"Design and programming are human activities; forget that
and all is lost." - Bjarne Stroustrup

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here." (South Park Bar anyone?)
Does this help C++? Does this help the C++ Community? Or, in fact,
does it help the "competition." [Term used loosely.] I could
cut-and-paste many examples, but that would just cause a flame war,
so I won't.

You mean like this one?

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....1ecd8e04739f8b

[snip]
No, no. I think s/he means posts like this one:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....c308699d3d8b05

"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

Cheers! --M

[JustBoo]

On 9 Jan 2006 12:24:38 -0800, ro**********@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like this one?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....1ecd8e04739f8b
I think maybe you're just a little too touchy, trigger happy, and a bit
on the vindictive side when you feel offended to be lecturing others on
abuse. Clean your own house first buddy.
This is <OT> Exit now if needing C++ input.

Perfect. Let's quickly examine this.

Stephan Grein wrote: _cin_ wrote:

Happy New Year and Merry Christmas!
Wishes of happiness and well-being to you and your family, good health
and professional success.
Let the New Year make your spirit high, wishes come true and plans
realized.
With best wishes and warmest regards,

Then...
ro**********@gmail.com wrote:Standard C++ doesn't know about the new year or christmas. There is no
way, in standard c++, to tell if these days are happy or merry. You
should pose your question to a group particular to your platform and
culture.

You responded in exactly the way I have just written about. Clueless;
witless; unhelpful; robotic. A myopic "go somewhere else." I expressed
my opinion of such behavior, just like I'm writing about now.

Then, like a couple of low IQ Lawn Gnomes - you and your buddy - jump
out of the bushes and claim it was "Sarcasm." Bwha! I know sarcasm,
pal, and that isn't even remotely it. Not even close. That's why I
didn't bother responding back.

I stand by my premise. You had your feelings hurt. Not because you
asked a question and then were insulted for doing so. You were
whacked because you acted *exactly* like the *capricious* Netcops
and Language Lawyers that love to indulge in that behavior.

Trend my posts. If I am rude to someone then it is for that, NOT for
asking a question.
</OT>.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
men to do nothing.

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up
for something, sometime in your life."
- Winston Churchill

[roberts.noah]

JustBoo wrote:

On 9 Jan 2006 12:24:38 -0800, ro**********@gmail.com wrote:

You mean like this one?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....1ecd8e04739f8b
I think maybe you're just a little too touchy, trigger happy, and a bit
on the vindictive side when you feel offended to be lecturing others on
abuse. Clean your own house first buddy.

This is <OT> Exit now if needing C++ input.

Perfect. Let's quickly examine this.

Stephan Grein wrote:

_cin_ wrote:

Happy New Year and Merry Christmas!
Wishes of happiness and well-being to you and your family, good health
and professional success.
Let the New Year make your spirit high, wishes come true and plans
realized.
With best wishes and warmest regards,

Then...
ro**********@gmail.com wrote:

Standard C++ doesn't know about the new year or christmas. There is no
way, in standard c++, to tell if these days are happy or merry. You
should pose your question to a group particular to your platform and
culture.

You responded in exactly the way I have just written about. Clueless;
witless; unhelpful; robotic. A myopic "go somewhere else." I expressed
my opinion of such behavior, just like I'm writing about now.

Then, like a couple of low IQ Lawn Gnomes - you and your buddy - jump
out of the bushes and claim it was "Sarcasm." Bwha! I know sarcasm,
pal, and that isn't even remotely it. Not even close. That's why I
didn't bother responding back.

I stand by my premise. You had your feelings hurt. Not because you
asked a question and then were insulted for doing so. You were
whacked because you acted *exactly* like the *capricious* Netcops
and Language Lawyers that love to indulge in that behavior.

Trend my posts. If I am rude to someone then it is for that, NOT for
asking a question.
</OT>.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
men to do nothing.

Wow, what a bitch.

I stand corrected....NOT.

[Josh Mcfarlane]

JustBoo wrote:

Then, like a couple of low IQ Lawn Gnomes - you and your buddy - jump
out of the bushes and claim it was "Sarcasm." Bwha! I know sarcasm,
pal, and that isn't even remotely it. Not even close. That's why I
didn't bother responding back.

Obviously you lack sarcasm.

If that person had truely meant to say that it was off topic, they
would have said something to the effect of 'don't post holiday
greetings, etc' and not gone into a paragraph worth of disecting the
various points in the message that could not be possible in C++.

Either he did a good imitation of the machine jokingly, or he is one.

Oh well. No more feeding the trolls for me.

[JustBoo]

On 9 Jan 2006 12:47:13 -0800, "mlimber" <ml*****@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
No, no. I think s/he means posts like this one:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....c308699d3d8b05
"Physician, heal thyself." - Ancient proverb

<sigh> <Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:>

discriminate - Pronunciation: dis-'kri-m&-"nAt

Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -nat·ed; -nat·ing
Etymology: Latin discriminatus, past participle of discriminare, from
discrimin-, discrimen distinction, from discernere to distinguish
between -- more at DISCERN transitive senses
1 a : to mark or perceive the distinguishing or peculiar features of b
: DISTINGUISH, DIFFERENTIATE <discriminate hundreds of colors>
2 : to distinguish by discerning or exposing differences; especially :
to distinguish from another like object
</Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:>

Let put this to use shall we.

Being rude and telling people to MYOB (Mind Your Own Business) when
someone has asked a legitimate ON-TOPIC question. One Thing.

Response to objectionable bad advice from Mr. mlimber to MYOB about a
legitimate ON-TOPIC question. Other Thing. Refer to definition above.

Example: Bully punching smaller kid. Someone arriving and punching
bully so as to stop the bullying. Are they the same?

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a well preserved body, but to skid in sideways,
champagne in one hand, chocolate in the other, body thoroughly used up
and worn out, screaming 'WOO HOO - What a Ride!'" - Terry Pratchett

[Bob Hairgrove]

PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
--
Bob Hairgrove
No**********@Home.com

[Default User]

JustBoo wrote:

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here."

You are badly confused, your claimed usenet longevity notwithstanding.
Telling someone that their post is off-topic for the newsgroup is not
rude, condescending, or abusive.


Brian

[Default User]

JustBoo wrote:

[who cares]
Being a usenet veteran, you'll know what this means:
*plonk*

Brian

[JustBoo]

On 9 Jan 2006 22:46:02 GMT, "Default User" <de***********@yahoo.com>
wrote:

JustBoo said:
Study a bit of psychology before you get your hackles up and do the
crusty-old "Hrrummppff" deal.

And like clock-work Deaf-fault User replies

You are badly confused, your claimed usenet longevity notwithstanding.
Telling someone that their post is off-topic for the newsgroup is not
rude, condescending, or abusive.

But of course he will never see this post, correct Defuser? Bwha!

"They always come back to the scene of the crime, always."

[Jack Klein]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:35:33 -0700, JustBoo <Ju*****@BooWho.com> wrote
in comp.lang.c++:

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and welcome to my kill file.

*plonk*

--
Jack Klein
Home: http://JK-Technology.Com
FAQs for
comp.lang.c http://c-faq.com/
comp.lang.c++ http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/
alt.comp.lang.learn.c-c++
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~a...FAQ-acllc.html

[mlimber]

JustBoo wrote:
[snip]

Being rude and telling people to MYOB (Mind Your Own Business) when
someone has asked a legitimate ON-TOPIC question.
If you'll consult my first post in that previously cited thread and
read it without colored glasses, you'll see that I said "MYOB" was the
short answer. (IOW, "MYOB" did not mean "buzz off." What it did mean is
that the OP had asked a question that is not answerable by looking at
the Standard and that has potentially very different answers depending
on the implementation.) I then immediately proceeded to give a longer
answer and referred the OP to the FAQ. I apologize if you interpreted
my response as being rude, but I did not intend it to be such. I was,
perhaps, a bit too droll, but not rude, IMHO. I only inteded to be
helpful.

Your response in that thread, on the other hand, was laden with
insults. That, JustBoo, is being rude. So, please consider this
parable:

#include "CastingJudgement.hpp"

int main()
{
OwnEye ownEye;
ownEye.RemovePlank();
if( ownEye.IsClear() )
{
NeighborsEye neighborsEye;
neighborsEye.RemoveSpeck();
}
return 0;
}
Response to objectionable bad advice from Mr. mlimber to MYOB about a
legitimate ON-TOPIC question.

[snip]

First of all, why do you assume I'm a "Mr"? Second, in what way was my
advice bad? In the context of this newgroup, my advice was the
*correct* advice. Third, I did not respond by telling the OP that he
was off-topic (although pursuing the topic further proved that the
underlying question was in fact Microsoft-specific and thus became
off-topic).

Cheers! --M

[JustBoo]

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 22:42:07 -0600, Jack Klein <ja*******@spamcop.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 12:35:33 -0700, JustBoo <Ju*****@BooWho.com> wrote
in comp.lang.c++:
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and welcome to my kill file.
Wow, I've never seen a sheep use a walker like that.

Um, a few weeks late to the party don't ya' think? Oh look, it's Mary
Muffit looking for her sheep.
*plonk*

I'll alert the media. Too baahahahahahad.

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a
man does not thoughtlessly submit to heredity.
- Albert Einstein

[Puppet_Sock]

JustBoo wrote:

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from
mediocrities.[snip]
- Albert Einstein

So have mediocrities.
Socks

[Mike Smith]

JustBoo wrote:

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

"Design and programming are human activities; forget that
and all is lost." - Bjarne Stroustrup

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here." (South Park Bar anyone?)
Does this help C++? Does this help the C++ Community? Or, in fact,
does it help the "competition." [Term used loosely.]

The purpose of c.l.c++ is not to attract programmers or to serve as an
advertisement for the language.

--
Mike Smith

[Axter]

JustBoo wrote:

This is, in fact, on topic, it is about C++ and the future.
(Heavyweights have commented on CUJ. So spare me.)

"Design and programming are human activities; forget that
and all is lost." - Bjarne Stroustrup

Is it the consensus of this group that new and / or young engineers /
programmers like being abused and told quite literally "get out of
here, we don't like your kind around here." (South Park Bar anyone?)
Does this help C++? Does this help the C++ Community? Or, in fact,
does it help the "competition." [Term used loosely.] I could
cut-and-paste many examples, but that would just cause a flame war,
so I won't.

I have been posting on usenet since 1994, I completely understand the
"useful info to noise ratio" problem. Or, at least the perception of
it. But, I suggest telling people to just bugger-off and go to a dead
newsgroup for non-existent help leaves people with negative feelings
about the language and the people who use it. I'm not kidding. Study a
bit of psychology before you get your hackles up and do the crusty-old
"Hrrummppff" deal.

I work for a large company, I have to deal with new people all the
time. Insulting them never helps. Never. I am not a patient person by
nature (what an understatement) but, you have to be if you want to
keep new people engaged and ENTHUSIASTIC.

I could go on, but I believe - literally - some of the most
intelligent people on earth frequent this news group. I hope
they see what I am getting at here.

Thank you and we'll leave the porch light on for ya'. :-)

"I prefer the errors of enthusiasm to the indifference of wisdom."
- Anatole France

This is why I prefer to use Web-Base topic forums like
Experts-Exchange, CodeGuru, and Code Project:
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Cplusplus/ (Experts-Exchange C++)
http://www.codeguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9 (CodeGuru C++)
http://www.codeguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7 (CodeGuru VC++)
http://codeproject.com/script/commen...p?forumid=1647 (Code
Project VC++)

In these topic forums you have the fredom to ask C++ related questions,
without getting hammer by the topic police, or those who seem to loose
their manners as soon as they connect to the internet.

The comp.lang.c++ newsgroup doesn't have enough content control over
ill mannered posters, and the comp.lang.c++.moderated newsgroup has too
much content control.

IMHO, the Web-Base topic forums hits a good middle ground.